Bal. tip or Patition for Deer
 

I can't decide. I hunt Deer and Spike-only Elk and I'm on the fence between the two. My rifle is a 7mm Rem. Mag (150g Bal. tip or 160g Part.) and wife's is a .270 Win. (140g either).

We've used Balistic Tips for a few deer and one cow Elk and they worked fine. I switched to Partitions last season but neither of got an animal last year with them.

I know the Bal. tips will expend all their energy on the animal and the partition will stay in one piece and likely go through the animal. We deer hunt in thicker woods so I would like the deer to stop within about 50 yards of the shot. Where we hunt Elk there are a lot of other hunters so if we shoot a Spike Elk (only legal animal) I want it to drop on the spot.

What would be the best bullet to really anchor these animals and make sure they don't get away. I'm not too worried about a ton of meat damage as we usually shoot for the heart or both lungs. Will the partition through both lungs drop either animal on the spot or should we expect some tracking? Would the Balistic tip into both lungs be the quickest kill? I know they work just fine for the deer we shoot and since a spike bull isn't much bigger it should work about as well right?

Power
http://www.powerandfury.net/hunt.html

RE: Bal. tip or Patition for Deer
 

BT will work fine. On elk I would maybe look to a bullet with less expansion...they maybe spikes, but they have a lot tougher hide and bone structure than wt's. Especially the wife's 270, I would suggest going with a part, failsafe, etc. in that gun. The 7 has more umf, but still when elk is on the menu, I would probably lean againist the BT's.

As far as dropping them on the spot, I am not sure that can be clearly indicated. Except if you take out the spine. They all seem to react differently and go varing length...that being said with 130 gr BT out of my 270 most bucks have dropped within 75 yards..provided the the boiler room was messed up. Elk I have never dropped one on the spot, but never had them go more than 300.

I say shoot what is best in the gun and gives you confidence in the 7mm. The 270 for elk, I would stay away from BT's.

Good luck to you both!

RE: Bal. tip or Patition for Deer
 

The only thing I have ever used rifle-wise on deer is cor-loks, it knocks them flat, pinky hole in, fist size hole out. I shoot 150 grain cor-loks, the last buck I double lunged was knocked flat, he didn't even kick. Both of his lungs were mush! I am not knocking other rounds, just sharing my experience.

The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club

RE: Bal. tip or Patition for Deer
 

Thanks Skeeter. You seem to be here a lot with good info. It's appreciated.

I hear what you're saying about Elk being a tougher critter. I think you're right about the wifes' gun. Problem is she doesn't shoot that much so I need a bullet she can have success with even if bullet placement isn't the best. Last deer she shot was a rear-single lung and liver shot (too far back). The Bal. tip blew up pretty good and that deer went about 100 yards after the shot. With a Partition I think it would have got away. I know she needs to shoot more but you tell her that ;) She loved hunting with me, bless her soul, but I wish she would practice more and work toward being a better shot.

RE: Bal. tip or Patition for Deer
 

Power I am no expert, but thanks!

I think your right on the last deer shot, due to expansion bone or bullet frags can find home to the vitals causing a more lethal blow on a poorer shot. Howvever had this shot been forward I think a part. would have had a better results. So really 1/2 dozen of one. For deer BT's are the stuff, IMHO. Elk, I have no real experience, I have always went with a solider, less expanding type bullet..so I can't say yes or no. You have the experience, so go with it. The key with any bullet is try to put it home! My experience also has lead me to believe the BT type bullet will put the spins on an animal quicker than a part out of 270...I think it is due to the shock is higher with a large gapping hole in the exit side...big hole lots of trauma and lots of blood.

As I suggested, shoot what will make you and her confident. Limit the range and wait for the better shot window if required. I now guys who use Seirra's for everything and think they are the cats....personally I would say the BT will out perform a Seirra any day of the week...but far from me to tell them that!

If the head is thinking won't...chances are good you'll have a bad result. Mind over matter sort of speak. You seem to know the situation and been around the block a few times, trust yourself.

Does your wife's gun not like certain bullets? Will she care that is different from your's or what she used prior?

I am assuming you do the testing and decide on the bullet...she shoots a few to refresh and hunts. Correct? I do the same for a couple buddies, the only time they ask questions, &quot;is why 30 bucks a box, it use to be 20&quot;....prices increase nature of the biz. (none the wiser<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>)

I ain't going to tell your wife anything, I get enough of my own<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

Good luck, I am sure whatever you choose will be fine.



Edited by - Skeeter 7mm on 09/25/2002 15:02:39

RE: Bal. tip or Patition for Deer
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Does your wife's gun not like certain bullets? Will she care that is different from your's or what she used prior?

I ain't going to tell your wife anything, I get enough of my own<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

LOL! Ya, I do all the work and she just basically shows up and shoots the deer out from under me <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Her deer in 2000 was only about 50 yards away but she got buck fever and had to make the shot off hand.

http://www.powerandfury.net/images/n00deer2.jpg

She did a good job and made an adequate shot to harvest the deer so I can't complain too much but I do believe it would be better to have her practice more. I'll see if I can convince her. She doesn't know or care about guns/bullets any more than she needs to. I tried to explain the difference in bullets last night while reloading and her eyes got all glazed over.. Guess we'll just do what we have to. She's been pretty lucky up to this point but someday she might make a poor shot and lose the animal and that will be tragic for all involved. Her rifle doesn't care what I stuff through it, it shoots 1&quot; groups at 100 no matter what (with a 4x scope none-the-less).

I want to shoot the Partition since I think it would be a better bullet in the long haul but I want the quickest death for the animal too.

Hey Tazman, I like the Cor-Lok bullets too but I'm not sure you can buy the bullets for handloading. Have you heard anything about the new Cor-Lok Ultras? Can you buy just the bullets anywhere? Thanks for the input BTW.

RE: Bal. tip or Patition for Deer
 

Power,

You can buy SPCL bullets for reloading. Cabela's sell them & probably local shops as well. Not sure about the new ultra's?

If her gun shoots it all, what about Failsafe's? That's what I used out of my 270 for Elk, 2 years ago...a nice bull went down in 100 yards. Biggest knock on them is can't get them to group. If you can a 140GR failsafe will do the trick on both deer and elk!

RE: Bal. tip or Patition for Deer
 

I agree with most of what has been said above, and I'll add my $.02. I've shot 8 elk with a .270, 7 fell to the 150 gr. partition, and one to the 140 gr. fail safe. All fell with in 100 yrds., only one needed another round. The fail safe was the only bullet that completely passed through, including going through the far shoulder on a 1/4ing away shot. I recovered all of the partitions, and they do retain weight very well. I beleive the fail safe may lack in expansion rate, meaning I think they are almost too hard of a bullet, and just don't expand enough, hence the complete pass through. I don't think ya can go wrong with the partitions, and try to keep from shooting over about 200 yrds. with the .270 and it will do the job, or at least it has done several jobs for me. Good Luck!

RE: Bal. tip or Patition for Deer
 

Power, I've used Ballistic Silvertips (Winchester's slightly different version of the Ballistic Tip) and Fail Safes on deer. The Fail Safe deer ran about 35 to 40 yards in rather thick cover after being hit. Upon field dressing, I saw that the bullet had taken out both pulmonary veins going back into the heart, as well as the left atrium. Not bad. Exit wound wasn't anything large--around .55 caliber.

The Ballistic Silvertip deer . . . well, one dropped on the spot--I broke that deer's neck--and the other one had an exit wound that was about an inch wide, and three to four inches long. That one actually ran about 25 yards or so. I destroyed both lungs of that one, and I could see blood pouring out of it as it ran away. I figure that the BST hitting it was akin to firing a grenade into the deer.

I'm staying with the BSTs, and at least two members of my camp use BTs that are handloaded for them. BTs tend to leave a better blood trail.

For elk . . . you got me swinging at that pitch. Never hunted them.

RE: Bal. tip or Patition for Deer
 

power
if your concerned with how far an elk is going to go place the bullet a little farther forward in the front shoulder. you damage a pound of meat but the animal drops in its tracks. i have shot 10 elk to date three with a bow(in the lungs not the shoulder) 1 with a 7mm(did not like the gun sold it) 6 with my 270(150 grain nosler part.)
i found the shoulder to be the best place. i shot one in the lungs 3by rag horn (i hit high in the lungs) and the animal went about 200 yards if it wasnt for my hunting partener i wouldnt even know i hit the thing there was no flinch and when we went to the point where he was shot there was no blood it wasnt until 50 or so yards that we found the blood trail.
so after that experience i shoot them in the shoulder no chase no question no long tracking.

i would go with PARTS for elk the 85% bullet retention result in alot more knock down power
just my 2cents