Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

Any hunters in #65 who use ATVs, contact me for update and road closures in Uncompagure national forest, we need everyones help to reopen USFS closures.

Contact [email protected]

Dr. Mike:(

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

:DJust curious outdoor 338-I see where no one has responded back to this thread, but have you gotten any responses by Email?
The reason I am asking is that I have seen where " land use" issues don' t get a lot of :(attention here:(-since we are fighting a boguss[X(] wilderness proposal [>:]that will lock us out of over 63%of the Mt. Baker/Snoqualmie national forest here in western washington.[:o]
IF you want some help with this, you might go to[:-] www.snowest.com :D and post it on thier " land use" forum. Snowmobilers seem to respond to these things much better than hunters do!!!!!!! Being that I am both,I have seen it with my own issues!! Good luck and best wishes................................S daWg

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

I hunted on the platuea this year (61 for bear and 62 for muzzle elk) and I thought the ATV restrictions were great. They (USFWS) have clearly gone to great efforts to close off the renegade ATV trails that were cropping up all across the plateau. The hunts were much better because of the closures. Still more than enough vehicle access but now you can get away. Get off your machine and walk awhile - you might like it.

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

Hey DB ,when I' m hunting I dont ride an ORV-Now I might spend a little time in my truck,;) but not on [X(]" renagade" [X(]trails, but established back roads [:-]which I believe this gentleman was speaking Of.:eek:
Now as for ORV' s riding [X(]all over in the manner you decribe:(-I believe all of us here would have a problem with that!
Now when I' m on my 800 Summit X, walking is more than likely NOT an option in most of the places we go!!!!!!!!:D[:-]

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

Hi db,

Have you hunted GMU #65, the wilderness area, you take Owl Creek Pass road #219 up, and you will find that the USFS has closed a road, a logging road that we as tax payers have paid for. Its a well established road, it will not go away, its been cut throught the side of a mountain, and was very well used. Why the USGS closed this road is anybodys guess, but the road will take you within 1 1/2 miles of the Blue wilderness area. Now you have to walk 4.8 miles on a perfectly good road to get near the Blue wilderness area. I agree with summit, I am not talking about someone who has made their own renagade trails in the mountains, stay on roads and trails that are well used and maintained. I always use roads and trails and never go off them, and I walk to my stand from where I leave my ATV, and that is a fair walk.

The USFS has not done a good job in working with the public, db have you seen the Final Environmental Impact Statement on the Uncompahgre National Forest Travel Plan, read all about the USFS closings and the majority of the people who use the UNF have said keep the roads open, but don' t make new ones, and the USFS has many employees that are Serria club members. Remarks from USFS personal in public meetings are public record, you might be shocked at reading some of these. Look up PR37' s remark found on N-118 that will shock you! Remember this National Forest is public forests not Montrose' s or Delta' s national forest, meetings need to be held all over the state, have them in Denver, Colorado Springs and not just in Montrose, Delta, Ridgeway, Oury, and get everyone' s comments, opinions, suggestions, not just out on the western slope. Many use the UNF are from the Denver area. In regards to " get out and walk" , my friend, I do plenty of that, and need no extra exercise, I get plenty of walking going to my stand, and hauling out elk, can you say that?

Dr. Mike

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

Hopefully you can get bunches of people to raise hell on this,because it is what is desperately NEEDED!!!![:o][:o] [X(] Sierra club,elf,alf [X(]- they' re all from the same warped mold.[X(]
Now there are many indivduals, groups, and businesses of like mind with us, :Dbut what do we all do to unite in our cause?? That is where the Blue Ribbon Coalition comes in to the picture. Check it out at www.sharetrails.org
$20 to join- but money well spent:eek: if we want our roads open to us for the future[:o]

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

I was born and raised in Montrose and know the owl creek area well. I now live in Denver and haven' t been up owl creek in several years. I can say that based on what I saw on the Plateau proper - you cannot make a serious argument that access is too restricted. There are roads all over the plateau. Some two tracks were closed (and driven over by renegades). Trails that were closed were overkill, e.g. where there used to be three ATV trails going into a canyon there is now one. I also saw trails that allowed motor vehicle access from July 4 (after elk calving) through Labor Day but were closed the rest of the year except to foot traffic. Great idea! ATVs screw up hunting. There are not enough game wardens or USFS people to enforce the laws and ATV riders have shown (as a group) that they are incapable of regulating themselves. I have yet to meet an ATV rider who admits that they are the smuck who blazed a new trail through previously unmolested wilderness but we know that those trails just don' t make themselves. And let me get this straight - 338 you want to drive your ATV up a trail so you can hunt in a Wilderness Area where vehicles are not allowed? Is the irony lost on you?

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

DB,if I read correctly 338 said he wanted to drive his ATV up an established ROAD to access a trail into the wilderness[:o]. Now we all know that you can' t drive a truck,ORV,snowmobile,mountain bike,skateboard,wheelchair, [&:](discrimination of the handicapped)[:o]or operate a chainsaw in a wilderness area. Right?
I have no problem at all with existing wilderness areas as per the US wilderness act of 1964, but I DO have a problem with the sierra club and thier greenie allies trying to take perfectly good useable National Forest land (used by 87%of the NF visitors) and pushing to get more land that is [&:]NOT wilderness[&:] (as per the act of 1964) locked up to the 87%so that they can establish more wilderness that 13% of NF visitors actually use!!!!!!!!![X(] [:o]
Now the first step is closing roads-that would be getting thier foot in the door, AND most people ,if it doesn' t affect thier own personal area- don' t say a word ' till it does.;) Kind of like the proper way to boil a live frog. He will jump out of the boiling water.
Now I don' t have the exact numbers on me, but right now there are approximately 130 million acres of wilderness in the NF system-the sierra clubs target for 2010 is 300 MILLION acres!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now that' s a lot of roads WE wont be able to use-and per the act MUST be [X(]de-constructed at OUR expense[X(]!!!!!!!!!!!! [X(]Now tht would really help with wildfires[>:], wouldn' t it?
I' m not trying to start a pissin match, just giving my opinion[:-] Can anyone feel the water warming up?!?!??:( [>:] PS Thier buddies are burning SUV' s turning loose mink,and other acts of domestic Terrorism[&:][&:][X(][>:]

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

Hey db,

After reading your post I have gathered that you don' t own an ATV, and have a distain for them, I have been pretty upfront about current users of ATVs to stay on established trails, and we both would agree with that. I have seen the damage that you speak about, but not by any members in my hunting party. Road #219 is a well used logging road, if you know it well, then you know what is at the top, and that is a cattle guard, I have prposed to the USFS to close the road at the top. I park my ATV and walk the 1.1/2 into the wilderness area, and then go in a great distance to my stand, anyone that hunts with me will do the same. Since it has been some time since you hunted the area why don' t you take this plesant 4.8 mile walk up to the cattle crossing and tell me why you feel that this established road should be closed.

In regards to your hunting in the UNF, take a look at the appendices for UNF-Final Environmental Impact statement pages N 72, and 73 #HU03 this indivdual wants hunting cloesed and blames all damage due to hunters, not just ATVers #HU12 found on page N-73 this indivual and I quote " Hunting season is when the plateau gets over used, You and the DOW need to get together and close hunting....there are plenty comments like these, db maybe you sould look up the facts and then report, that' s a serria club member wanting to take your hunting rights away from you, thank God some folks want to protect all our rights, and I am in total agreement. You may hate ATVs but at least some people are defending your rights to hunt that ride them. If you want that quiet peaceful hunt, go into the Blue wilderness area, its very quiet in the woods, except....one....little thing, what about those loud jets overhead and contrails they make!

Dr. Mike

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

;) Great post 338:D

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

I don' t place much value in the fact that one or even some of the people who commented want to end hunting. So what? 10% of the public always believe in bizarre or absurd ideas on virtually every issue. I don' t want to waste my effort responding to the fringe element on any issue - its tilting at windmills. I also expect my government to protect the resource first. Your " right" to ride your 4 wheeler doesn' t outweigh the FS obligation to protect the resource. If ATV riders had behaved in a better manner - most of these closures would not have been necessary. As for logging roads - logging companies pay for them generally with the understanding that they will be closed and reclamated when they are done.

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

Ok now my turn, I am a semi disabled hunter who has been using the owl creek pass road for years, it' s closure will and has severly effected my ability to gain access to the area that I hunt. I agree whith 338 and summit, why close a perfectly good road that is an established road. I now have to look elsewhere for a hunting spot and just days before I am to hunt.
Sounds to me like DB is a tree hugger or something, I am not against trail closures but road closures I am.

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

db,

I am not one of the ATVers who abused any UNF land, its only done by just a few, its very easy for you to look at a few ATVers who wander off trails and blame everyone who owns, rides, looks at ATVs, dreams of having one, for the damage you have seen.

I don' t blame you for the toilet paper I have found many times walking into the Blue wilderness area, nor for that matter anyone who dosn' t own an ATV do I blame for leaving TP around, that would be goofy, just as you blame all ATVers for damage you have come across. I will debate you in any open forum, anytime you wish and I bet you will get that chance at the Lakewood office very soon. Will you use the db name or do you have a first name?

The forest service has done a great job in many area' s, except this one on road closures, that is a total failure, as most would agree..see you at the hearing:)

Dr. Mike

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

Big Bear Todd - I do not think that 338 is saying that they closed Owl Creek Pass. I think he is saying that they closed a logging road off of Owl Creek Pass Road. And I would be willing to place a small wager that the road closures don' t get reversed. I think that would just end up making a different (and equally adamant) group of people angry. No win for the FS - so they just do what their mission requires, e.g. protect the resource. And that is as it should be. I' ve never been called a tree hugger before - I kind of like it though:) I can' t wait to tell my wife that she married a greenee - and all of this time she though I was a nuckle dragging carnivore.

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

db,

I will bet you, what' s the bet, a nice juicy steak at Trail Dust? You take BgbearTodd and myself out to eat, and if I loose, you choose the place, and not the Fort...lol

Dr. Mike

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

DB well I kinda figured that you were a knuckle dragging ape :) Just kidding, do you ride in the zodiaks when the Eskimos are whale hunting also?
Any way, I do know the road that is closed as I was just there scouting and was unable to get to my normal hunting area. It is a road and not a trail!!
The FS has done this in the past to areas and have made it impossible for anyone with a disability to gain access to these areas. I guess they could get handicapped stickers for us!!

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

one more question DB

do you work for the usfs???? you defend them like you do??????

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

;) That one would have got my blood boiling!!!!!![:-]
You and 338 are on the right road there,I just hope you have MANY people of like mind there with you At this meeting.I' d come but it' s just a little too far!
As far as [&:]fringe groups[&:] and what they think or do-they ARE the ones who WILL be calling the shots if sensible people don' t stop [&:]them in thier tracks[>:] before they build thier momentum[X(] Got get ' em Tom and Mike!!!!!!!(and bring friends!!-[>:]They[&:] WILL!!)
One more comment on " fringe groups" .What do you think we are to most of Americans that that are so far removed from thier food source that the thought of killing an animal (Bambi [:o][:o]no less!!!) For food would appall them?????????? Tell you what guys; Don' t EVER let OUR hunting rights go to a vote of the public, because if you haven' t noticed-we' re outnumbered!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.........By Greenie, [>:]leaf[X(] licking liberal[&:] fringe groups like the sierra club and thier terrorist allies and the people who they CAN influence with thier greenie propaganda that sounds pretty good to the average[:' (] UNINFORMED MASSES[:' (] in this country. Does anybody feel the water getting warmer yet??????????????????????????[:o]

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

AMEN SUMMITDAWG, I don' t own an atv, but live in Calimexico(oop' s fornia) where the non and anti-hunter' s make ALL of our outdoor decision' s, Also where I used to hunt near Pagosa Spring' s Colorado forest service traded acreage with a local ranger and didn' t think to save access where hunters had been going in for 20yrs, when questioned by me, that there map clearly showed the passage as FS land, they said that the map was just a general aid and was not specific and they didn' t have the time or money to have the area surveyed, then a guide friend of mine told me about a good spot north of steamboat spring' s, when I drove1200 mile' s to check it out it was posted by a local rancher/outfitter, I went to USFS and asked if that area was indeed public land,after checking on the map she said absolutely ! So I said the area is all posted by xxx and could you look into the situation,she replied very gruffly, we don' t have time or resources to check ever piece of property, to which I replied very nicely , this is a specific area that you said you knew quite well and all I' m asking is for usfs to call the rancher/outfitter and ask him to remove the illegal posted sign' s, to which she replied,Why don' t you just use the marked trail about a mile down the road like everyone else, NEXT!

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

with all that I am seeing and hearing around lately sounds to me like we (here in COLO) have a serious problem with the USFS, maybe its time to get with our congressmen and see if we can' t get a Congressional hearing in regards to all of this. Seems like there is no set ways that they have to notify everyone of sales or closures and it sure seems like this is causing both physical and financial hardships for people. I know that I was not happy when I drove 6hrs to find the road to my hunting spot closed. can you imagine what it would be like driving 1200 miles like usa said. sounds like someone needs to answer for all of this?? NOW who would that be?????

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

[:o]Todd, Mike, DB, USA or whoever might care; If you drop down a couple theads " Meeting on Colville national forest Access meeting........" Have a look at it. I bumped it up last night since it had dropped to page 3 so you could.
As you can see we are having access issues up here too,but my point is this;
I hope to god you guys get a better response to yours than I did mine! Not enough people seemed to care and as you coud see we kind of got off the subject.
On snowest sledders were more concerned,but still not as they should be-but at least I KNOW a hand full or better did show up! We didn' t know about the first couple meetings and the[>:] greenies[&:] had thier way-got cocky-and didn' t send but 2 people to the next couple--- and concerned, [:-]informed [:-]responsible:D citizens PREVAILED:D in so much as USFS was agreeing with them and basically telling them that there is plenty of wilderness[X(] in the area and they should go there!!!!!!!:D
This pissed Greenie off and they got nasty, :D:eek:and belligerant and totally blew it for thier cause--YESSSSS!:D[:-]:eek:
One thing I believe is that sensilble USFS field emplyees see these actions as possibly costing thier jobs. Now U notice I said FIELD employees!! Go Get ' em!!!!!!!![:-];):D

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

Summit, I agree we should be banding together rather than arguing. Even if you don' t agree with the use of atv' s or what ever we hunters need to stick together. Each has his or her own way to hunt and the end result is the same we want to have fun and enjoy our hunting. This should be a fight all hunters take on so that all can have a chance in the mtns.

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

;) Very true bigbearhuntertodd
But guys,there are allies out there;)-you just need to find them,or let them find you!! [:-]Four wheel drive clubs:D, ATV (such as 4-H) clubs, [:-]snowmobile clubs:D, even disabled people who need to DRIVE a road to see OUR beautiful land[8D]. And after those clubs, there are plenty of individual drivers, riders, and families of all 4 catagories I listed.And don' t forget the folks who just don' t want " big brother" telling them what they can do or where they can go!!
The hardest part is to find the people who will actually take the time and put forth the effort!![:o] Give ' em hell.......................S. daWg

There is one source of allies I forgot-ATV and Snowmobile dealers!!

RE: Colorado hunters unit #65 and ATVs
 

Dr. Mike: You need to contact the GMUG. Grand Mesa, Uncompahgre, Gunnison National Forest District re: road closures and approved use classifications. The NFS GMUG powers that be have been inventorying and signing a great deal of the trails and roads in their jurisidiction for several years now, but a good deal of that effort has come to fruition in just the last 2 years. This was done with a variety of input from a variety of user demographics that primarily live in these areas. Not a lot has been closed to motorized use, but many single track trails have been closed to four wheel devices due to the proliferation of ATVs because of the way they alter these less impactful paths of travel and a history of abuse by many users of this mode of transportation. (erosion, asthetic degradation, etc.) Many remain open to foot, motorcycle and horse travel because of the smaller footprints and surface impact, although motorcycles and some of their riders are taking alot of heat due to poor practices as well. The users will ultimately decide the fate of access of all kinds.