Hevishot vs steel
 

Do you think that Hevishot is worth the price over good ol' steel?

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

for geese, yes i do, for duck no. and it also depends on how tall your geese are, if there low ive killed specks with #2steel, but ig there tall i feel hevi does the trick. my dad got his second honker ever only cause he was shooting hevi's

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

As huntnteen said, for geese absolutely! I shot Hevishot for the first time this year and I clearly had an advantage over the guys that shot steel. I shot Hevishot #2's for geese.It really paid off late in the season when the geese were wary and wouldn't come in to our spread like they did in the beginning of the season. Try a box. You'll be hooked.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

we used it a time or two hunting in ga and i don't think it's worth the price over regular steel at all i mean 25$ a box or 7-14$ a box your choice

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

Well, me and my buddy downed four wood ducks when we shot at the same time. Two shots, four ducks with #2s at about 25 yards, if that means anything to ya.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

It's worth it to me. I wait until I find a sale and stock up. Just bought four 25 box cases of 20 gauge 3" Hevi brand for $10.00 a box. Also picked up three 25 box cases of the Rem. Hevi 2 3/4" 20 gauge shells for $13.00 a box. Got 25 boxes of Fed Ti 12 ga 3" #4 shot for $8.00 a box and should have bought 200 boxes. I learned from that buy all you can when you find it.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

YES.

Basically, there is no arguing with the physics. Sure, steel can kill ducks. For some hunters, steel will kill all the ducks they shoot at. For other hunters, including me, some ducks are going to be recovered when shot with Hevishot that otherwise would not have been recovered if shot under the same conditions with steel.

I don't shoot a gazillion shells during duck season. I get to hunt maybe four weekends per year. On a weekend, I might shoot 20 shells, likely less. If I shoot Hevishot, that is $50 of shells or less. That may sound like a lot of money, but on this same weekend I've driven 500 miles (250 miles there, 250 miles back) and spent maybe $40 on gasoline. I've spent some money on food. It seems I'm always buying some sort of new gear -- decoys, game carriers, waders, anchor weights, etc., etc. Then there is the non-resident hunting license and state duck stamp and federal duck stamp. When it comes right down to it, my cost for Hevishot is less than 50% of my hunting expense, and yet it may have the greatest influence on how many birds I bring home with me. If I flat out could not afford Hevishot, I would shoot steel and be happy. I can, however, afford Hevishot and feel glad to shoot it.

I do sometimes think that maybe in the future I'll become a better shotgun shooter and may be able to perform well enough with steel to forgo Hevishot, but it would be a decision based on not having many cripples -- which I hate. It could also be a function of learning better how to pass on ducks that are beyond my range with steel. But where I'm at today I'm glad to be able to afford and use the Hevishot.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

Depends on how good a shot you are.

If you couldn't hit your ass with both hands then you might as well get you a pocket full of rocks and not ring my ears.

I've been shooting (or should I say shot) Hevi for better than a decade. Usually load it as the first shell and back it up with two steel. Before they monkey'd with the formula for that new Hevi-shot duck BS they have now, you'd never have to shoot a cripple. I shot swans, geese and ducks with regular 2 3/4" #6 hevi-shot. When Evironmetal took the loading back over and changed it from just hevi-shot to hevi-duck and hevi-goose... no more. I'm sitting on $400 worth of that hevi-duck junk.


I think that the new HEVI_SHOT DUCK (9.7gr/cc) is one of the biggest waste of money products on the market. Spend another dollar and get the Goose (12gr/cc) which is the REAL hevi-shot.


As for what I'm doing now... shooting up the rest of my hevi-duck... then sticking with Hevi-steel. Basically the same thing as hevi-duck (just a touch less dense) but MUCH less expensive). I shoot too many birds a year to shoot a high density shot exclusively.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

I dont think it is worth it, I watched a snow goose taken down at 80 yards with #2's remington's high speed steel. Steel does the trick fasteel is all I use.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

:eek::eek::eek:

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

ya it sounds fishy, I had a hard time beliving it and I saw it with my own eyes. I think it was a lucky shot, all I know is those birds were up there when he took those three shots.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

I love hevi but it is expensive. 6 years ago i bought two case cheap from Waterfowler.com. I'm still firing the stuff from back then. I love #6's for ducks. I try to use it most of the time when i hunt geese. It really helps you and i fire #2's for geese.

With ducks I'll use it when it's a slow day or when i might get into a new species of duck for my wall. If I'm targeting a new species I always pull it out. When I hunt honey holes where shooting is close i usually load steel. I like to use HS on divers in the layout at times also.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

I like the new heavy steel

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

Hevishot is just too much $

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

SwampCollie: That is some very, very, very interesting information. I confess to having been duped. And I don't think it is just Enviromental Metals that is perpetrating this hoax. I seem to recall having read an article in one of the glossy waterfowl magazines that extolled the virtues of HeviShot and some others. Man . . . that PO's me something fierce. I have bought 6 boxes of 3" #4s and 6 boxes of 2 3/4" #6s since the first of February, stocking up for next year. Talk about feeling like a sucker.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

Yeah...... me too.

Environmetal guards this like its a matter of national security. I think honestly for them it is. I contemplated just going back to shooting steel, but thought that to be a bit rash. I'll keep shooting the hevi-steel, its a good buy for the price and performance, but I won't even buy hevi-goose.... I'd rather spend a few dollars more for Wingmaster than give them any more of my money. Thinking about it just makes me mad.

If you look at the boxes, its kinda no duh... but they never come right out and admit it. Now that you know there is a difference Alsatian, go back and read between the lines. The Hevi-duck says "More energy than steel" Hevi-goose says either "Over twice the energy of steel" or "Heavier than Lead". Depending on year of production. Reading over their product specs, you can see how they worded it to be misleading without being a total crock of crap. They didn't break any laws, but what they did in my school of business educated opinion is very unethical and a poor business practice.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

An interesting point. If I go out and sell a product using another's trademark, they can prevent me. The idea is that I am gaining unfair benefit from the goodwill and reputation they have built with their customer; their customer associates a certain standard with the trademark, and the trademark owner wants to exclude others from benefiting frm their investment in that trademark.

I guess there is nothing illegal about the owner of the trademark itself degrading the standard expected by their customers and profiting -- as Environ-Metal seems to have done in this case -- on the expectations those customers associate with their trademark.

I have found other confirmations of your point around at other sites on the net. I have not entirely convinced myself that you are correct, but there is a strong flavor of right in what you have said. Why come up with a "Hevi-Shot Duck" label? Why use the motto "heavier than steel?" I will continue to investigate this. If I satisfy myself that this is true -- Hevi-Shot Duck is less dense than lead, particularly about 9.9 grams/cc -- I will take some pains to promulgate this information. I see that Cabela's trumpets the density of Hevi-Shot Duck as being akin to its former density. I may have to give them a call and ask them if they are going to change that representation. I think that would qualify as false advertising.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

They (Hevi-Shot) emailed me the news of the new shot weights some time ago. They weren't trying to keep it a secret.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

Black Cloud is a good in between.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

Black cloud is just steel.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

When I emailed them I asked them directly and I got a cookie cutter and paste general email with information that is basically the same as was on their website.

If they weren't trying to keep it a secret... they'd post the density on their website.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

A5Mag12: Just for the record, then, what was the specification of shot density used in manufacturing Hevi-Shot Duck that Environ-Metal's email recited in their email to you? And is there some other publically available source of the information that is validated by Environ-Metal? I ask this later from point of view of providing this information to some mouthpieces that may have gotten the information wrong -- like American Hunter magazine and the Cabela's web site.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

Works better for geese than any steel that I've shot before. A lot of other hunters feel the same. For the money it's worth it all day. I didn't use it a lot on ducks to say for sure, but on geese it's the best I've ever used, besides Bismuth.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

Black cloud is "just steel" in terms of its material. Black cloud is different, however, in some other significant aspects of the total shotshell. First, some of the pellets (40%) are a special shape that is said to aide in penetrating and/or causing more severe wounds to game. Second, a special shot cup keeps the shot packet together longer after exiting the barrel, adding an additional 15 yards of range. One report I read said that the pattern was very tight. How effective this shotshell is, I cannot say. But while it is "just steel" it claims some design innovations that may provide performance advantages over other steel shotshells.

I think it is very interesting how the federal ban on lead shot has been such a disruptive event and has, in some cases, led to substantially improved shotshell technology. For example, HEAVIER than lead pellets. Different pellet shapes that may pattern better than lead pellets. Special shotcups. Mixing different pellets -- 60% spherical pellets, 40% special "cutter" pellets -- in a shot charge. High velocity shotshells, I think, may be said to have been stimulated by efforts to try to overcome some of the limitations of steel.

"Booooooo" on Environ-metal, however, for not being forthright about the cheapening of the Hevi-Shot tungsten recipe for the Hevi-shot Duck shotshells. Why not just maintain the standard and price it accordingly?Makes me reluctant to pay a premium for a superior material which might not be so superior as I have been conditioned to expect.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

The flitestopper pellets do infact leave larger wound channels. I have seen that first hand. I did a write up in my field journal on it back in September. Ironically it was on early geese too. All I got was #4s... worked great up close. Steel #4s are no goose load. Later in the season, I found it to be murder on tight decoying ducks, and total havoc on teal.

Click on the link in my sig if you want to read the article. We shot a pile of honkers.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

The email talked about the new duck load that would be lighter than the original Hevi-Shot that was still going to be available as the goose load. That this was a move to keep cost down but still have a shell that would be closer to lead than steel in performance. The duck load runs 9.7gm/cc and plated lead right at 10.5 gm/cc.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

Boy they dropped the ball on that one... the price difference is like $2/box. Thats the direct wholesale price!

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

Alsatian, and Swampcollie, we sure appreciate your post and responses to post! Keep 'em coming, your info helps a lot of new hunters, and some of us ol' hunters!:)

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

MZloader98:

To respond to your original reply, now better informed with more information, no, I don't think Hevi-Shot Duck loads are worth it. I have recently paid $20.69/box of 10 for 2 3/4" #6 and $22.49/box of 10 for 3" #4 Hevi-Shot Duck shotgun shells. Based on what I've heard about the density of these shot pellets I would be better off going with Hevi-Steel at a significant cost savings. Additionally, given the duplicitousness of Environ-metal in this matter, I might be inclined to just stay away from their products entirely, look around at some other products such as the "BlackCloud" product discussed briefly above or maybe take a look at the Winchester and Remington high density tungsten matrix offerings. I would be interested in seeing how the Winchester and Remington high density loads pattern. I have often read that Hevi-Shot patterns very well, though to date I have not patterned these loads in my shotgun.

I've looked at the Hevi-Shot goose loads, and I don't remember what the low end is on the shot size. I think where I hunt I can use high density #6 shot to advantage in early season, over decoys. It may be that as the season goes on and ducks are more reluctant to come in close I may be better served by stepping up to high density #4, and maybe Hevi-Shot goose is available in 3" #4 loads, I'll have to investigate that prospect.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

No. I don't think they are worth the extra money. Weight and density alone will not improve kill shots. You're still dealing with the same problem you do with steel, that is very hard metal traveling very fast. If you want to improve your odds of providing a kill shot, you need a softer metal that will cause more damage. Bismuth is a great material for this, but they did not gain market acceptance.

Hevi-shot does the same thing as steel except at further distance. Practice shooting more is the only way to increase kill shots.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

All you high school kids getting ready to take the SATs this fall..... remember that one!

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

Weight and density give you more penatration which gives you a much better kill shot. #7 1/2 hevi shot at 1300 fps will blow through a mallard at 45 yards taking out heart, lungs and other vital organs giving me the best kill shots I've seen in close to 45 years of duck hunting.

#6 hevi shot is good for any size duck inside 65 yards if you choose to shoot and can shoot them that far. Sometimes you need to dust off your steel shooting buddys cripples. #4 hevi is the perfect duck/goose combo and #2 hevi is strictly a goose load.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

It doesn't necesarily give you more penetration. It gives you more penetration at longer distances. At shorter distances though, I haven't found it makes a difference, at least not one that warrants the additional cost. That said, I agree if you can and want to take that 50-60+ yard shot, hevi-shot will perform much better than steel.

Although, I would argue at greater distances you're still dealing with the same problem that you have with steel, namely that it is a very hard metal. It would be a similar comparison with a full metal jacket single projectile. It can easily pass through the target without causing a kill. A softer metal will perform better at longer distances than hevi-shot.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

This is a great thread. I was ready to buy a case of hevi shot but now I am not going to. I had been shooting hevi-steel last year but now I am thinking of getting away fromEnvironmental Metalcompany and go to either blackcloud or fasteel.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

Is there a difference between all the non toxic metals from an environmental standpoint? I remember that Bismuth Cartridge Company came out with a bio-degradable casing. I thought it was a good idea given how much plastic was going in the water, but again they were never able to get market acceptance.

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

Sorry I meant Environ-Metal

RE: Hevishot vs steel
 

I would think that there is no ill-long term fallout from any of the shot material that gets federal "non-tox" approval. Although there are certain types of tungsten based shot, such as Kent's Tungsten Matrix that are also plastic polymer mixes. Honestly, even as great as hevi-shot is, I think Tungsten Matrix is/was the best of the heavy weights. I still shoot a bit of it out of my old 20 double gun and my A5 16. It just swats ducks out of air like a big tennis racquet.... that soft shot crumples 'em.