steel vs. hevi shot
01-02-2003, 03:51 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ALPHARETTA GA USA
Posts: 7
steel vs. hevi shot
read on another board about problems dropping ducks-geese with steel shot. several were going to bb for duck or switching to hevi-shot or bismuth. Anyone else having problems with steel? I have just started duck huntinh and am using mossberg 3 1/2 #4 steel shot. Bismuth is very expensive at shops I have checked - double price of steel. What size and kind of shot are you using?
01-02-2003, 04:13 PM
#2
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Greensboro MD USA
Posts: 63
RE: steel vs. hevi shot
I have used all types of shot (steel, Hevi-shot, and Tungsten) and I perfer to use the Tungsten the best. It does cost more than the steel but the results are well worth it. I shoot Federal Tungsten Polymer 12ga 3" #4 for ducks and Geese. The knock-down power is incredible. I tried the Hevi-shot when it came out last year and found that it didn't have the speed, energy and consistent pattern of the Tungsten. And the steel just doesn't do much at all. So in my opinion you should try a box of Tungsten and see for yourself.
01-03-2003, 07:32 AM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Chazy NY USA
Posts: 15
RE: steel vs. hevi shot
I have a Remington 870 12ga, mod choke, I shoot 2 3/4 inch, no. 3 steel and I bag a lot of birds. I use 4s if I can't get 3s. I have read the data on bismuth and tungsten but I haven't found a reason to spend the extra $ on those loads. The main variable is taking only high-probability shots. With your weapon you should do well with steel if you limit your shots to 30-35 yards max.
01-03-2003, 11:35 PM
#4
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Grove City Ohio USA
Posts: 256
RE: steel vs. hevi shot
I just splurged this fall to buy some Hevi-shot. I have not tried the other steel alternatives, but I can testify to the Remington Hevi-shot. I shot a duck at 40+ yards yesterday with #4 2 3/4" Heavy-shot and the duck folded on the first shot! I could not believe it. I have never had this kind of drop using steel. For the money and the number of shots I get, I am a changed man. Hevi-shot all of the way!
Good Luck with the Duck!
Good Luck with the Duck!
01-04-2003, 06:46 PM
#5
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: golden co
Posts: 852
RE: steel vs. hevi shot
Shoot hevi-shot, tung, or bismuth all are good. I used steel when I started waterfowling and as far as I'm concern it sucks. Now I reload hevi-shot.
there is no subsitute for quality
there is no subsitute for quality
01-06-2003, 01:57 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New Jersey USA
Posts: 1,279
RE: steel vs. hevi shot
I tried Hevi-shot for the first time last weekend and on pass shooting ducks it is awesome! But as stated earlier if most of your ducks/geese are shot while pitching to decoys, steel is fine.
"We do not inherit our wildlife from our fathers, we only borrow it from our children."
"We do not inherit our wildlife from our fathers, we only borrow it from our children."
01-06-2003, 02:54 PM
#8
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Chazy NY USA
Posts: 15
RE: steel vs. hevi shot
40+ yards, huh? Wow. I did that with steel - back when I was a rookie. I wouldn't take a shot like that now, regardless of what load I was shooting. What has this become, a long-range contest? Seadog
01-06-2003, 05:54 PM
#9
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fairfield CA USA
Posts: 142
RE: steel vs. hevi shot
The newer high speed steel has enhanced waterfowling quite a bit. On the other hand when patterned side by side with Hevi-Shot you will see a significant difference. I was tired of watching birds get hit and then sailing 100's of yards before going down. This was with 3's then 2's and then finally 1's using the cheaper slow speed (older Drylok's and Estate) steel. However if I was shooting small ducks (teal or ring-necks) I was taking birds with no problem. In my thinking those smaller birds are much harder to hit but easier to penetrate.
So I opted to get serious and started to reload on my own after doing A LOT of reading. I chose to make fast fast steel loads as well as Hevi-Shot. Now I've spent way too many hours in front of a patterning board but there have been many lessons learned. You're absolutely right that HS is not needed for good shooters under 30 yards. However if you make a shell with a X-stream spreader and 1 ounce of 6's in the wad, the poorer shooter will be given a minimum of an extra 1.5 feet wide pattern at 20 yards. I like (need) that sometimes, by the way the pattern still looks really good and even wider at 40 yards. I've patterned HS 4's and 3's as well and in my opinion they aren't necessary for ducks under 40 yards. Actually, 40 yards is a long friggin ways once you actually measure it and I rarely take shots that far. However, it (HS 4's for ducks) is a great back-up load. The load is 4's, 1 1/4 ounces, running at 1500 fps (same velocity as 6's load). The 3's were devastating when patterned. Here is why...
One day my father and I decided to pattern all three at a local range. The pattern board consists of a very hard wood frame over treated 4 x 4's. The wood was hard enough that I couldn't sink tacks into it to hold up the paper (reason #4353 to keeps duct tape in the truck). The control (1300 fps) steel would just barely penetrate the board, in fact some of it was sticking halfway out. The # 3's high speed steel (1680 fps) sank in the wood about a 1/4 of an inch. Finally I shot the HS 3's which I had just made. When we got up to the board after the shots we were amazed. You couldn't see the HS pellets period. In fact I couldn't dig them out of the wood, I don't know how deep they went in but it was a long way. At that point I made the decision not to load HS #3's for anybody but me as it is just too dangerous (they are supposed to be able to penetrate human skin well beyond 200 yards). At another patterning session I was patterning #3 steel and #6 HS on a 3/4 particle board. At 40 yards neither the fast, fast steel nor HS could be stopped by the particle board. The fastest Kent fasteel was a close 3rd in regards to penetration. Now all these are just 2 3/4 inch shells out of my SBE.
When it comes to the field... I've never had better pheasant shooting ever, and I've been at it for going on 18 years. Believe it or not I'm using the fast fast steel 3's, and HS as the back up. I've turned quite a few heads without trying and nobody could believe it was non-toxic shot. As far as the ducks, I've had good and bad days. One day in pouring down rain I couldn't hit anything be it 20 yards or 50 yards. That hurt a lot, with the ego severely bruised I went out the next day and figured out my problem. Hello, try wiping the beads of water off the gun and keep your #@*% head DOWN on the gun. Other than that one day it's been a very fun year.
All in all here are my suggestions to those that are still awake. If you're going to shoot steel, shoot the fastest stuff you can get your hands on. Kent fasteel is the best around here for factory stuff. If you have the time to reload try the RSI or BP recipes with STEEL powder and speeds in the 1600 to 1750 fps range. Again 3.5 shells are not necessary. If you have the bucks the HS is really nice, but even nicer if you can roll your own and throw in an X'stream spreader with the 6's. Homerolled HS will cost between $1 to $1.30 per shell depending on how much shot you would like to load. If you have a honey hole where there are tons of birds and all are within 30 yards then I would save my money and get the fastest Kent Fasteel. I'm not so lucky. Best of luck to all.
So I opted to get serious and started to reload on my own after doing A LOT of reading. I chose to make fast fast steel loads as well as Hevi-Shot. Now I've spent way too many hours in front of a patterning board but there have been many lessons learned. You're absolutely right that HS is not needed for good shooters under 30 yards. However if you make a shell with a X-stream spreader and 1 ounce of 6's in the wad, the poorer shooter will be given a minimum of an extra 1.5 feet wide pattern at 20 yards. I like (need) that sometimes, by the way the pattern still looks really good and even wider at 40 yards. I've patterned HS 4's and 3's as well and in my opinion they aren't necessary for ducks under 40 yards. Actually, 40 yards is a long friggin ways once you actually measure it and I rarely take shots that far. However, it (HS 4's for ducks) is a great back-up load. The load is 4's, 1 1/4 ounces, running at 1500 fps (same velocity as 6's load). The 3's were devastating when patterned. Here is why...
One day my father and I decided to pattern all three at a local range. The pattern board consists of a very hard wood frame over treated 4 x 4's. The wood was hard enough that I couldn't sink tacks into it to hold up the paper (reason #4353 to keeps duct tape in the truck). The control (1300 fps) steel would just barely penetrate the board, in fact some of it was sticking halfway out. The # 3's high speed steel (1680 fps) sank in the wood about a 1/4 of an inch. Finally I shot the HS 3's which I had just made. When we got up to the board after the shots we were amazed. You couldn't see the HS pellets period. In fact I couldn't dig them out of the wood, I don't know how deep they went in but it was a long way. At that point I made the decision not to load HS #3's for anybody but me as it is just too dangerous (they are supposed to be able to penetrate human skin well beyond 200 yards). At another patterning session I was patterning #3 steel and #6 HS on a 3/4 particle board. At 40 yards neither the fast, fast steel nor HS could be stopped by the particle board. The fastest Kent fasteel was a close 3rd in regards to penetration. Now all these are just 2 3/4 inch shells out of my SBE.
When it comes to the field... I've never had better pheasant shooting ever, and I've been at it for going on 18 years. Believe it or not I'm using the fast fast steel 3's, and HS as the back up. I've turned quite a few heads without trying and nobody could believe it was non-toxic shot. As far as the ducks, I've had good and bad days. One day in pouring down rain I couldn't hit anything be it 20 yards or 50 yards. That hurt a lot, with the ego severely bruised I went out the next day and figured out my problem. Hello, try wiping the beads of water off the gun and keep your #@*% head DOWN on the gun. Other than that one day it's been a very fun year.
All in all here are my suggestions to those that are still awake. If you're going to shoot steel, shoot the fastest stuff you can get your hands on. Kent fasteel is the best around here for factory stuff. If you have the time to reload try the RSI or BP recipes with STEEL powder and speeds in the 1600 to 1750 fps range. Again 3.5 shells are not necessary. If you have the bucks the HS is really nice, but even nicer if you can roll your own and throw in an X'stream spreader with the 6's. Homerolled HS will cost between $1 to $1.30 per shell depending on how much shot you would like to load. If you have a honey hole where there are tons of birds and all are within 30 yards then I would save my money and get the fastest Kent Fasteel. I'm not so lucky. Best of luck to all.
01-06-2003, 08:20 PM
#10
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Walnut Ridge AR USA
Posts: 46
RE: steel vs. hevi shot
Ok. My Figurizations of the Calculations after long hours of observation and determination to figure out the situation. I have concluded that if you put the bead on the duck, and its not just a half a mile out there, the duck will fall. I love it when i hunt with guys who bring these "high power" shells that people buy because they think it will make them kill ducks. (along with the $250 calls and the waders with the packaging folds still on them,while blowing their calls at 5:00 a.m. at the quickshop lol, i just had 2 say that)
and unload their guns on a single greenhead floatin into the hole. and miss every time, and somehow i seem 2 limit shootin just a regular steel load and a full choke. the truth is any halfway decent shot could kill just as many ducks with a 410 shootin #6's as anyone else could shootin these Tungsten 3.5" thru a 10 guage. You've just gotta be able to hold off the trigger just a little bit longer in order for the ducks to commit. I know a guy that i hunt with who shoots a Rem 870 20 guage, with 3" steel and kills ducks just as good as anyone else. Nothing makes me madder than 2 watch some rookie start blastin away at the first duck that comes within treetop height while theres 500 about to commit. Ok, I'm done.
"ARISE, KILL, EAT"
Acts: 10:13
and unload their guns on a single greenhead floatin into the hole. and miss every time, and somehow i seem 2 limit shootin just a regular steel load and a full choke. the truth is any halfway decent shot could kill just as many ducks with a 410 shootin #6's as anyone else could shootin these Tungsten 3.5" thru a 10 guage. You've just gotta be able to hold off the trigger just a little bit longer in order for the ducks to commit. I know a guy that i hunt with who shoots a Rem 870 20 guage, with 3" steel and kills ducks just as good as anyone else. Nothing makes me madder than 2 watch some rookie start blastin away at the first duck that comes within treetop height while theres 500 about to commit. Ok, I'm done.
"ARISE, KILL, EAT"
Acts: 10:13