Grouse Dogs Beneficial?
02-12-2002, 11:31 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 33
Grouse Dogs Beneficial?
There is a honest artical in the Jan/Feb 02 issue of Shooting Sportsman magazine. The title is "T'aint Fair", and it's the truth abut grouse dogs. The author through years of experience makes the case that there are very very few dogs that make it easier to put birds in the bag. He goes on to state that the person who "hunts" without a dog has a much better chance to actually bag a bird.
I agree. In the last thirteen years I have harvested approximately 150 grouse and I do not own a bird dog. I must also note that I have encountered many of the "beeping wonders" with their very vocal owners in good coverts and ya know how many birds I've seen in their bags? None. Zip. Nada. I'm sure after many tears of frustrating training there are a very few good old slower dogs out there that know how to handle today's grouse, but I think I'll stick with getting limits without Rover.
CN
I agree. In the last thirteen years I have harvested approximately 150 grouse and I do not own a bird dog. I must also note that I have encountered many of the "beeping wonders" with their very vocal owners in good coverts and ya know how many birds I've seen in their bags? None. Zip. Nada. I'm sure after many tears of frustrating training there are a very few good old slower dogs out there that know how to handle today's grouse, but I think I'll stick with getting limits without Rover.
CN
02-12-2002, 01:20 PM
#2
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Troy MI
Posts: 44
RE: Grouse Dogs Beneficial?
Sorry Nate, but I respectfully disagree....
I feel that a good dog and a knowledgable ownerwill put more birds in the bag than a dogless one. I do agree with you with re: to beeper collars....I do think that they spook grouse, at least part of the time.....usually birds that are heavily hunted on public land.
Now what I am about to say is not intended as a slap to any setter or pointer fan, but I feel that a flushing dog is a better grouse dog than a pointing dog; a running grouse that will give a pointing dog fits will not get the same chance with a flushing dog snapping at it's tail feathers. In addition, a when a flusher pushes a bird to flght, the bird doesn't necessarily get a chance to choose where it's going to go, sometimes lending an easy shot to the gunner. Also, flushers tend to bust there way into thick cover, leaving the gunner in the open to take advantage of the flush when it comes...not push his way into a grapevine tangle to flush the bird while it flushes out the other end.
I do think that grouse are the most difficult bird for ANY dog to work. I also think that a close working flusher is a must...a "boot polisher", if you will. Two of the best grouse dogs I have ever seen were my Uncle's Springer spaniel and my American water spaniel...both seemed to catch on to the game pretty quickly.
But I feel that the main key here is "knowlegable hunter"....I don't know how many times I have seen hunters who used to be dogless get super stealthy in a grouse covert, gun at the ready for that instant flush, and muscles tense. They stalk quietly. They scan the cover and decide the best way to approach it for the best shooting opportunities if there is a flush. When they get thier beloved pooch, all that seems to go out the window....they blow the damn whistle to kingdom come, shout at the dog, pay attention to the dog only, walk with they gun in the crook of thier arm like the bird will wait for them. I think if most hunters approached grouse hunting with these thoughts in mind (being mentally aware and ready to fire at a moments notice), they would bag more birds. FWIW.
I feel that a good dog and a knowledgable ownerwill put more birds in the bag than a dogless one. I do agree with you with re: to beeper collars....I do think that they spook grouse, at least part of the time.....usually birds that are heavily hunted on public land.
Now what I am about to say is not intended as a slap to any setter or pointer fan, but I feel that a flushing dog is a better grouse dog than a pointing dog; a running grouse that will give a pointing dog fits will not get the same chance with a flushing dog snapping at it's tail feathers. In addition, a when a flusher pushes a bird to flght, the bird doesn't necessarily get a chance to choose where it's going to go, sometimes lending an easy shot to the gunner. Also, flushers tend to bust there way into thick cover, leaving the gunner in the open to take advantage of the flush when it comes...not push his way into a grapevine tangle to flush the bird while it flushes out the other end.
I do think that grouse are the most difficult bird for ANY dog to work. I also think that a close working flusher is a must...a "boot polisher", if you will. Two of the best grouse dogs I have ever seen were my Uncle's Springer spaniel and my American water spaniel...both seemed to catch on to the game pretty quickly.
But I feel that the main key here is "knowlegable hunter"....I don't know how many times I have seen hunters who used to be dogless get super stealthy in a grouse covert, gun at the ready for that instant flush, and muscles tense. They stalk quietly. They scan the cover and decide the best way to approach it for the best shooting opportunities if there is a flush. When they get thier beloved pooch, all that seems to go out the window....they blow the damn whistle to kingdom come, shout at the dog, pay attention to the dog only, walk with they gun in the crook of thier arm like the bird will wait for them. I think if most hunters approached grouse hunting with these thoughts in mind (being mentally aware and ready to fire at a moments notice), they would bag more birds. FWIW.
02-12-2002, 07:24 PM
#3
Spike
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Colorado Springs COLORADO USA
Posts: 52
RE: Grouse Dogs Beneficial?
I would agree that you may very well do better without a dog many times. It overlooks an important point though. I got my first bird dog about 5 years ago and at that time I never would have thought I would acquire this attitude. I frankly am not much interested in hunting birds without my dog even if I could do considerably better without him. In fact, even on birds like pheasants, there are days when I definitely would do better without him. Most of the time, however, I do much better because of him. Most of my pleasure now is watching him work, especially watching him figure out how to work a new species or new type of terrain. I didn't used to think that way and I really don't care as much about shooting over other peoples dogs. I probably wouldn't turn down an opportunity to hunt grouse without a dog but it really isn't the same sport.
02-13-2002, 11:08 AM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: devon ab canada
Posts: 7
RE: Grouse Dogs Beneficial?
I suppose this thread pertains to forest grouse, but for what its worth, most of my experience has been with prairie grouse.
You can hunt these birds without a dog, but success can depend a lot on factors such as time of day and available cover. If i'm in a new area that is quite homogenous in terms of cover, I would hate to be there without a dog. Of course, success in this case is based on the premise that the dog is as staunch as a fence post.
You can hunt these birds without a dog, but success can depend a lot on factors such as time of day and available cover. If i'm in a new area that is quite homogenous in terms of cover, I would hate to be there without a dog. Of course, success in this case is based on the premise that the dog is as staunch as a fence post.
02-25-2002, 07:10 PM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Spokane, WA & King George Va & Andrews AFB, MD
Posts: 2,238
RE: Grouse Dogs Beneficial?
I BEG TO DIFFER ABOUT THE COVER, WHERE WE HUNT IT IS SO THICK WITH TREES THE GROUSE TEND TO STAY UP IN THE TREES, OF ALL THE GROUSE I HAVE SHOT 90 PERCENT OF THEM WERE UP IN THE TREES.