Hevi13 against Win HV #4's
03-28-2011, 06:41 AM
#11
Typical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Schuylkill County, Pennsylvania
Posts: 714
I'd rather have more in my pattern that hit a little less harder but are known to put down the turkey than fewer that would do the same thing. IMO
But its cool to know that there are other good shells out there. Thanks for your time in narrowing my search for a new shell.
But its cool to know that there are other good shells out there. Thanks for your time in narrowing my search for a new shell.
03-28-2011, 07:27 AM
#12
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: ohio
Posts: 637
So - whats the quote about ? you trying to prove me wrong ?
You hit the whole point striaght with ROUGHLY something that means almost, close too, nearly the same, shall I go on ? you posted the same reply as I had only in different wording and then come back and quote me as I was wrong ?
Sorry , but there is no way in hell, that a shell even a hevi shot with a choke >>> Hevi 13 3.5" 1 3/4oz of #6's 1090fps threw a jelly head choke<<<< if the Winchester HV traveling faster and shot through a >>>>>Win HV 3.5" 2oz #4's going 1300fps threw a Kicks GT...choke----
The difference is 210 FPS shot through a choke that I'm sure has a different tapper inside (Punch: the Price of the two chokes) let alone, maybe A different constriction that could cause also MUCH faster and higher energy factor at the target a pond impact.
Now if you want to get technical and being in the carpentry buisness and understanding materials and UV light along with age of material>>>> I found two pieces of 1/2" fire board <<<< that were found ,could also have a difference with the light, heat, UV rays, age that were hitting the one pc over the other could cause a difference in strength and I have seen this, but we will assume that this is not the case and that the difference that YOU and I had pointed out in the first place is only the ammo and choke type and constriction.
Please do not try and prove others wrong by quoting a reply
I do this for a living so I try not to get to technial with replies and only apply the common sence answers that direct to the problem or difference...
You hit the whole point striaght with ROUGHLY something that means almost, close too, nearly the same, shall I go on ? you posted the same reply as I had only in different wording and then come back and quote me as I was wrong ?
Sorry , but there is no way in hell, that a shell even a hevi shot with a choke >>> Hevi 13 3.5" 1 3/4oz of #6's 1090fps threw a jelly head choke<<<< if the Winchester HV traveling faster and shot through a >>>>>Win HV 3.5" 2oz #4's going 1300fps threw a Kicks GT...choke----
The difference is 210 FPS shot through a choke that I'm sure has a different tapper inside (Punch: the Price of the two chokes) let alone, maybe A different constriction that could cause also MUCH faster and higher energy factor at the target a pond impact.
Now if you want to get technical and being in the carpentry buisness and understanding materials and UV light along with age of material>>>> I found two pieces of 1/2" fire board <<<< that were found ,could also have a difference with the light, heat, UV rays, age that were hitting the one pc over the other could cause a difference in strength and I have seen this, but we will assume that this is not the case and that the difference that YOU and I had pointed out in the first place is only the ammo and choke type and constriction.
Please do not try and prove others wrong by quoting a reply
I do this for a living so I try not to get to technial with replies and only apply the common sence answers that direct to the problem or difference...
03-28-2011, 08:16 AM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NewLowell ,Ontario ,Canada
Posts: 2,765
i made my statement with my first reply. and then came back and qouted you as to agree with you it had nothing to do with "trying to prove anyone wrong" obviously we both know a bit and i am not going to try and prove anyone wrong but rather state what i know to be fact and try and help others. this is not about proving any one wrong. i am sorry you take it that way and wont give advise on your post anymore.... sorry for your trouble and best of luck to hunting.
03-28-2011, 11:51 AM
#14
Typical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location:
Posts: 696
big hug.........
okay good. I was wondering why 5 pellets in the "kill zone" makes any sense. shotgun patterns don't happen exactly the same each shot so I'm more interested in pattern density because of this. OO buck will kill a gobbler with 1 pellet at 100 yds I'm sure. If I take that shell and 1 pellet hits the "kill zone" on my target at 100 yds does that mean I'd feel confident at shooting a turkey with that set up and distance? Just an extreme ridiculous example to illustrate that the thinking on down range knowdown power versus pattern density is sometimes off IMO. Those turkey targets with a lifesize gobbler head are making people look at the wrong thing. I use the gobbler to aim but when I look at the sheet I turn it over to see the important info: the pattern.
If the suggestion is that the Hevi-13 won't kill a gobbler because it won't go thru the sheet then that is a different story. That would be a valid reason to use the other load. I don't think that is the case so I'll take the greater pattern. Both will kill them. Use the one you're confident in. You sometimes only get 1 crack at that public land gobbler. lol
okay good. I was wondering why 5 pellets in the "kill zone" makes any sense. shotgun patterns don't happen exactly the same each shot so I'm more interested in pattern density because of this. OO buck will kill a gobbler with 1 pellet at 100 yds I'm sure. If I take that shell and 1 pellet hits the "kill zone" on my target at 100 yds does that mean I'd feel confident at shooting a turkey with that set up and distance? Just an extreme ridiculous example to illustrate that the thinking on down range knowdown power versus pattern density is sometimes off IMO. Those turkey targets with a lifesize gobbler head are making people look at the wrong thing. I use the gobbler to aim but when I look at the sheet I turn it over to see the important info: the pattern.
If the suggestion is that the Hevi-13 won't kill a gobbler because it won't go thru the sheet then that is a different story. That would be a valid reason to use the other load. I don't think that is the case so I'll take the greater pattern. Both will kill them. Use the one you're confident in. You sometimes only get 1 crack at that public land gobbler. lol
03-29-2011, 08:27 AM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southern TN
Posts: 1,018
big hug.........
okay good. I was wondering why 5 pellets in the "kill zone" makes any sense. shotgun patterns don't happen exactly the same each shot so I'm more interested in pattern density because of this. OO buck will kill a gobbler with 1 pellet at 100 yds I'm sure. If I take that shell and 1 pellet hits the "kill zone" on my target at 100 yds does that mean I'd feel confident at shooting a turkey with that set up and distance? Just an extreme ridiculous example to illustrate that the thinking on down range knowdown power versus pattern density is sometimes off IMO. Those turkey targets with a lifesize gobbler head are making people look at the wrong thing. I use the gobbler to aim but when I look at the sheet I turn it over to see the important info: the pattern.
If the suggestion is that the Hevi-13 won't kill a gobbler because it won't go thru the sheet then that is a different story. That would be a valid reason to use the other load. I don't think that is the case so I'll take the greater pattern. Both will kill them. Use the one you're confident in. You sometimes only get 1 crack at that public land gobbler. lol
okay good. I was wondering why 5 pellets in the "kill zone" makes any sense. shotgun patterns don't happen exactly the same each shot so I'm more interested in pattern density because of this. OO buck will kill a gobbler with 1 pellet at 100 yds I'm sure. If I take that shell and 1 pellet hits the "kill zone" on my target at 100 yds does that mean I'd feel confident at shooting a turkey with that set up and distance? Just an extreme ridiculous example to illustrate that the thinking on down range knowdown power versus pattern density is sometimes off IMO. Those turkey targets with a lifesize gobbler head are making people look at the wrong thing. I use the gobbler to aim but when I look at the sheet I turn it over to see the important info: the pattern.
If the suggestion is that the Hevi-13 won't kill a gobbler because it won't go thru the sheet then that is a different story. That would be a valid reason to use the other load. I don't think that is the case so I'll take the greater pattern. Both will kill them. Use the one you're confident in. You sometimes only get 1 crack at that public land gobbler. lol
Anything smaller than a 6 shot makes no sense to me...unless you are using plain lead shot...then I may shoot 5's.
03-30-2011, 11:15 AM
#17
Spike
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: S.W. PA
Posts: 96
Was kinda board today so decided to try this again... I really didnt have much around the house to use as test material... I found two pieces of 1/2" fire board that has a very thin gauge metal wrapped around it... It is used to set behind your wood stove for wall protection from the heat...
Anyhow i only had two sheets so i opted to set them out at a measured 50 yards... I shot one with Win HV 3.5" 2oz #4's going 1300fps threw a Kicks GT...
The other was shot with a Hevi 13 3.5" 1 3/4oz of #6's 1090fps threw a jelly head choke...
The Win #4's all went threw the fire board hitting the sheet metal and leaving very pronounced dents...
The Hevi13 #6's all the pellets DID NOT pass threw the fire board and the dents WERE NOT as pronounced as the #4's...
This is the second test that I've done and both times the Win HV #4's out performed the Hevi13...
I dont know what to say but I will not be using them...
THE ONLY ADVANTAGE I SEE IS PATTERN DENSITY...
Anyhow i only had two sheets so i opted to set them out at a measured 50 yards... I shot one with Win HV 3.5" 2oz #4's going 1300fps threw a Kicks GT...
The other was shot with a Hevi 13 3.5" 1 3/4oz of #6's 1090fps threw a jelly head choke...
The Win #4's all went threw the fire board hitting the sheet metal and leaving very pronounced dents...
The Hevi13 #6's all the pellets DID NOT pass threw the fire board and the dents WERE NOT as pronounced as the #4's...
This is the second test that I've done and both times the Win HV #4's out performed the Hevi13...
I dont know what to say but I will not be using them...
THE ONLY ADVANTAGE I SEE IS PATTERN DENSITY...
Here's a post from another board, that disagrees, with your findings?
Again, this is copied, and I do not know this person? So do not take offense.
QUOTE:
I tested hevi 12 #7.5s against CP Lead # 6s in wet phone books at 40yds. The lead was 50fps faster at the muzzle and penetrated less in the wet phone books than the Hevi 7.5.
I feel hevi is comparable to the penetration of lead 2 sizes larger, IE hevi 7.5=PB #5.
The test medium used in that post(fire board) is not a good medium IMO. He was comparing dents, which we all know #4 will make larger dents than #6. On flat tin 1400fps CP Lead bounces off leaving large dents while 975fps hevi 13 blows through. One may say the lead smashed flat, but I don't think so as most of the CP pellets I've dug out of any medium including plywood were still round and the dents in tin are very round with many round pellets laying on the ground in front of the tin.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with killing turkeys with lead, but you will never get HTL patterns from lead and pattern density is the #1 factor in killing turkeys.
Reloader
