3" vs 3 1/2" Pros and Cons
 

I am wondering what people think the advantages and/or disadvantages of each load are?

Dan

The only advantage of 3 1/2 in shells is you have a much wider pattern when hunting flying waterfowl.

The reason they brought out the 3 1/2 was wingshooting. There really is no need to take the aduse of recoil of a 3.5 unless your gun will not hold a pattern at all and that is very unlikely. This shell will not give you anymore range just because it says 3 1/2 all it is ,is a larger load in the shell..

3inch is lots for any turkey in North America...

Pros = more shot
Cons = Hard on your sholder
If turkeys were killed with black powder guns, with only a 2 in shell,
Why do you need a canon to kill them.

JMHO

To back up Adrain -
Difference - you take more abuse from the increased recoil and it costs you more per round vs a 3 inch round.

Other than that offers no more distance (should call them up close & personal anyway)

JW

I carry a 3.5 but shoot 2.75 or 3 in. shells. I just do not like the recoil of a 3.5 in turkey load.

Well, I shoot 3 1/2's. I'm not a sissy like the rest of you fellows. I can take a little extra kick.:s2: You don't notice the kick when you shoot at a gobbler. I have to disagree a little. I think you do get a little more range. You also get more pellets, which could increase your odds of killing one at longer distances. I will agree there is not a whole lot of difference, and JW is right, it's all about getting them close, but if a bird is hung up at 50 yards, I have complete confidence my 3 1/2's will do the job. They will drop them dead well past 50, but that's about as far as I want to go.

I actually patterned 3.5 and 3's last year with arrowmaster and the 3's held the pattern much better. Shot #6 3" federal's w/ 45+ bb's at 40yds. Now for me that was great. I shot 3.5's in my previous gun. The 3.5 kick like a mule; except when you smack down old tom and then you don't feel a thing :)

Pro - More pellets can equal better pattern, and extended range.

Cons - More recoil. More expensive.

Try them out and see if you think they warrant the extra recoil.

There's an idea..............did you say try them out !?!?



BTW - Then you'll KNOW.

I have a gun that will shoot 3 1/2 but i can't get a good pattern like i can with a 3

What ever patterns the best...

Pretty much a no brain'er

Ditto what BT said!!:happy0001:

Thanks guys. I have tries them out. My gun will shot 3 1/2" and I have patterned both. I just couldn't find a huge difference, or at least enough of a difference to justify putting up with the recoil. I just like to hear other hunters opinions.

Dan

One other advantage for some of the 3.5's is they have backbored barrels.

As an owner of both I can only saw "not much"..and the difference is really not worth arguing about..I use the Federal 3 in 2 oz heavyweights in #5 for turkey, the same thing for 3 1/2 except it's 2 1/4 ounces, no gobbler has ever walking away from being hit with either.. personally I prefer the 2 oz 3 in, the extra bang, noise, expense and without question recoil..not really sure it's worth it to be honest about it.....

My 3" patterns nicely and I can do the job with it. I shoot 2oz #6's and the recoil is still plenty with that so I haven't even entertained the idea of shooting a 3.5. I haven't tried it so I really don't know but to me the 3.5's would just be overkill.

I have always used an 870 in 3"...killed birds at a good distance before. when I was about 16 I thought bigger is better. I ordered me a New england Arms single shot 10Ga in 3.5"...After getting about half way through the process of selecting a chock and shells I decided I would sell it to my cousin. That gun hurt...

I use a mossburg 12 gauge, real tree camo, tactical turkey gun,that will take 3-1/2's, and some day I may need to use 3-1/2's. I certainly like the idea that I can if I want to. But I don't remember when I last used even a 3' shell for spring hunting. I use 2-3/4 inch, 7-1/2 shot most of the time for spring birds, cause I'm gonna shoot when they are somewhere between 3-20 feet away. I do pack it full of bigger shells in the fall season for running, or flying turkeys at longer ranges and snap shooting when the sex of the bird makes no difference cause my tag fits them all and Thanksgiving is just around the corner.

How can more pellets give an extended range? 1 oz load going 1250 has the same range as a 1 1/2oz going 1250.

My gun handles both...I prefer the bigger shell, if only for some added piece of mind... an additonal 1/4 oz of shot...not to mention the terrific patterns. My only beef with the 3 1/2'' load is so many guys I hear claiming they are comfortable shooting sixty yards and beyond. I've seen and shot alot of turkey guns and I have to tell you that I have YET to see a gun that would make me comfortable shooting at turkeys routinely at any distance past 50 yds. The introduction of the hevi shot family of loads has only fueled that crowd. For the record, I shoot copper plated #5...3 1/2" Win High Velocities. Kill them just as dead as anything else out there....no need to spend $50 for ten rounds. The name of the game is get 'em close. If you aren't good enough to close the deal, than accept that and work to get better. Don't rely on a super cannon to reach out there and cripple turkeys farther than you should be shooting them. I know several old timers that use to use .410's ......They also shot them at less than 20 yds, with nothing more than a "high brass" load of sixes or 7 1/2 shot....wearing denim coveralls with no facemask. You figure it out. Does your super camo and mini cannon, real taxidermed decoys, and hevi shot compensate for good ol' woodsmanship, knowing your gun intimately, and calling ability?

This is a little unusual, but I agree completely with Mr. Longbeard. Whatever patterns best is what I shoot. When I bought my 835, I went into it fully thinking I'd never shoot 3.5s and 3" would be just fine. After patterning various loads in both 3" and 3.5", the load that patterns best in my gun, so far, is 3.5" 2.25 oz #6 Hevi 13s, so thats what I shoot.

I disagree. If it only took one pellet in the head/neck to kill the turkey then your statement is more accurate. However, I would point out that lethality is associated both with the kinetic energy and penetrating ability of each pellet, and the total number of such pellets striking the turkeys head and neck.

In your example, the pattern of the 1 oz load will start to loose density earlier than the pattern of the 1.5 oz load due simply to fewer pellets in the pattern.

Hypothetically, wouldn't you agree that 7 pellets hitting the head/neck of a turkey at 45 yards has a better chance of cleanly killing that bird compared, say, to two?

This is the reason heavishot #7 is gaining popularity. It will penetrate 1/4 inch plywood at forty yards and there is a ton of it in a 3.5 ", 2.25oz load. I've cleanly killed turkeys with it at ranges most people wouldn't believe.

So, respectively, I strongly believe that more shot is more leathal, all other variables being equal of course.

Right, but 7 pellets regardless of the initial payload of the shotshell, traveling at 1250 fps will have the same velocity at X yards.

A 3.5" shell with a payload at 1250, will not "shoot further" than a 2.75" shell moving at the same speed. Correct? Wouldn't the only way to increase the lethal range is an increase in velocity?

I believe you are thinking of the lethal potential of pellets shot from a shotgun and a single bullet shot from a rifle in the same manner, and this is I think you are mistaken. The lethal range of a shotgun is, in my experience, a function of both kinetic energy and pellet density.

If you also think of shotgun lethality as the total amount of kinetic energy delivered by all the pellets striking a target, then the more pellets striking that target the greater amount of total energy delivered. Remember that the pellets are spreading apart as they move downrange, so the denser patterns will always impact more damage to the target (especially at extended ranges) because more pellets are hitting the target. In general the more pellets you have to start with the denser the pattern further downrange compared to a less dense pattern with fewer pellets.

So, in my opinion, a shot charge that delivers the greater number of pellets inside a 10 inch circle at 40 yards will outperform one with fewer, all other variables staying the same (shot size, velocity, pattern uniformity). That charge will put more pellets on that turkeys head at extended ranges than the one with fewer pellets everytime.

Mouithcaller

Well that makes sense. Guess it would be more like getting stung by one bee versus 1,000 bees.

Because the pattern will be more dense with 50% more shot.

I would also suggest that the number of folks justifying the use of 3" vs 3.5" really tells you how hard the 3.5's kick. Bottom line is more shot provides greater knock down power. Every year I tell myself I'm going to go back to 3" to avoid the recoil of a 3.5 (OUCH). But every year I find myself entering the turkey woods with the 3.5 inch shells. I like the added confidence out to 50 yards.

I've often wondered what rifle caliber equates to the 3.5" shotgun recoil

I know it has already been answered, but thought it would be rude to not respond.
As stated above it could give you more range if your gun patterns them better. Generally speaking more pellets to begin with will give you more pellets in that magical 10" circle.

300 Weatherby Mag is close

Gman

Especially out of Mossbergs

And have ya ever tried a 10 ga 3.5?

Instant Rotator Cuf Surgery afterwards!

JW

I shoot a Browning BPS 3.5" 12 ga. with the Nitro Ammo Hevi Shot loads and can assure you it has much more recoil than any 300 Weatherby I have ever shot.

Probably right... I normally shoot an SP-10 w/ Nitro's and it's felt recoil is considerably less than my 870SM that I use for a back-up gun. I know w/ the Nitro's, that 870 is a punishing load on both ends, to say the least.


Gman

My SP-10 w/ Nitro's has a lot less felt recoil than my 870 SM w/ Nitro's. I've shot them back to back, and there is a considerable difference.



Gman

I promise you, you won't notice the kick of 3.5's out of an 870 when shooting at a gobbler. The worst part is when you are trying to pattern a load that likes your gun. It will actually give you a headache if you shoot enough. I have shot a .300 mag., and I can tell you the 3.5 turkey loads out of an 870 kick a cosiderable bit more.

Isn't that a concussion?

Mossberg 835
 

Suggestion when patterning turkey guns ---> borrow or buy a PAST shooting pad for your shoulder and shoot from a sitting position with shooting sticks. I shot my gun 8-10 times when sighting in a new scope without any ill effects.

I shoot 3.5" 2.25 oz Nitros out of a ported Mossberg 835 and was able to reduce felt recoil substantially by installing a ported choke and a Limbsaver recoil port. That Limbsaver pad +double porting + the extra weight of a scope, rail, bases and rings converted a very sharp mule kick into just a big push. Much more managable.

Another thing that hasn't been discussed ---> In my experience the Mossberg 835 handles the 12 gauge 3" 2.25oz loads better than most guns because the barrel is overbored. There is more room in that bore for the big shot to be choked without overcompressing it. The Star Dot choke I shoot in my 835 is .676 inches internal diameter. Indian creek tubes for other 12 ga guns range from .650 to .665 ID

All that shot gets too compressed in a standard 12 barrel with tight turkey chokes, which is why 3.5" loads don't pattern as well as 3" loads shot through standard 12 ga bores. in my experience.

No concussion, but you would think it would knock enough sense in me to go 3 inch. It hasn't worked yet. As for the ported choke tubes, they do take some of the kick out. I'm just going to stick with what has worked for me, Rem. hevi shot mag. 3.5" and Rem. Wingmaster 3.5". I have enough of them to last me the next two or three seasons, so there is no need in changing now. I'm still thinking about trying the Indian Creek choke though. Curiosity is killing me.

It is the same way with the Browning BPS. Have a buddy who has a 10 ga BPS and it is definately a punisher but not quite as sharp as my 12 ga BPS. Of course the 10 ga weighs a little over 10 lbs whereas the 12 ga is a little over 8 lbs.

OVERBOARD MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE
i wold have to agree with moutcaller about the 835
i started of with an indian creek and went to a jelly head and the jellyhead out proformed the indiancreek and i wll alaso say that i am comfortable out to 50 yards even though i believe i am capable of more with the hevishoot 3.5 but will not take it further then that and to be honest with you all i couldn't get a 3 in to pattern my gun and i will also say that my shoulder was sore tryin to find one that did when i should have just started with the hevi 3.5 to begin with