200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

I saw this and i cant beleive it! Id really really like to know how you guys are doing this because we patterned my cousins shotgun with remington steel shot out of a full choke in his ruger and at 40 yards there was probly 10 pellets in a 10 inch circle at 40 yards? Im sure that kind of a pattern sucks but id REALLY like to know how you guys are getting that good of patterns?

I shoot an 870 supermag and id like to know what chokes and shot combo to try?

Thanks!

(i was thinking bout buying the primos Tight Wad but now im not sure because i havent heard this good of results out of it....)

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

Im getting good results with carlsons turkey choke and Win xtended 3.5 #5s.

But just because curiousity gets the best of me, I'm trying the indian creek choke and heavy13s. The reports online that I have read of with these results...well alot of them are using this combo. I think Ill-Cornfed uses this combo out of a Benelli SBEII(what I use) and he gets crazy good results like that.

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

wow!

how tight is your carlsons?

and what kind of reluslts are u getting with it.....pellet count?

I saw a carlsons with a .640 constriction....i thought that was crazy!

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

Nitro company's tri-plex loads of 4x5x7plated hevishot and a Rhino .660 choke tube. This will get, out of my gun, 316 pellets inside a 10" circle. Each gun shoots differently, so you may not get the same results.
I also had my forcing cone lengthened and barrel ported by PRO-PORT.
This custom barrel work may have added to the shot density at that distance.;)

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

I shoot an Indian Creek "Black Diamond Strike" .665 out of my Remington Supermag 870 with 3.5" Hevi13 2 1/4oz #6's
I got 182 pellets in a 10" circle on the one shot I took at 40 yards with a cruddy bore.
If you read up on patterning a shotgun a clean bore is probably the most important aspect of getting the most out your choke/load combo. I've seen it said that you will lose anywhere from 10-15% or more of your pattern center density by shooting through a dirty barrel.
So if I got 182 pellets in one try at 40 yards ona badly dirtybarrel I should have no problem getting over 200 pellets in that same circle everytimeif I take my time and clean the bore.
That's really impressive and should be a serious 100% kill combo out to probably 50 yards if I do my part and make sure the sights are where they should be.

At 30 yards I had one 10" circle pattern with 325ish pellets in it........out of a shell with I think 460 total pellets.
At 20 yards its a head chopper that only put about 20 pellets OUTSIDE that same 10 circle. Thats probably about like getting hit with a 10" frying pan doing 1000fps. :D

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

These are the results that push me to go with IC chokes and Heavi13. Frying pan is about right.:D
Congrats on your two turkey, btw.

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

these are the reasons I purchased the Indian Creek for my Mossberg 835, and will be using HeviShot-13, 3.5", 2-1/40z., #6

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

The last time I patterned my 870 I had 305-310 pellets @ 40 yards w/a Hastings turkey choke and 3in Federal copper plated #6's. (FYI, I'm not even sure they still make these shells. When I found them and realized how well they shot I bought about 10 boxes and am still using them. I looked the other day and couldnt' find them)

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

So how are the Indian Creeks so much better??

Would the tight wad or a hastings do the job?

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

any and all the choke tubes out there will do the job, the Indian Creek people makes the tubes for a certain model shotgun and a constriction that ins't to tight nor to loose, they have done alot of experimenting, and with HeviShot-13, it is a deadly combo

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

Matt and I both have the same identical guns and are shooting the same choke/load combo. I finally put a pattern on paper at 40 yards this last weekend but haven't taken the time to count the pellets yet. My barrel had a bore snake through it before the shot so it was somewhat clean, so I'm guessing it was somewhere around 180-220 pellets in there.

I know itdropped my tom at 42 yards without even a flop earlier this year, and I have no doubt it's probably going to get it done every time out to 55ish yards or so.

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

You can definitely get 200 pellets in a 10" circle. The Indian Creek and Hevi-13 combo is consistenly producing these results for several different shooters. The Hastings or the TightWad will produce good results as well, but they may or may not produce the counts that the IC and the H13 combo produces. I also believe that you can contact Indian Creek and tell them the gun you shoot and they can help you get a good combination...

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

Ok thanks guys....I really apprecaite it

Matt And Rick james I also shoot a Rem 870 Supermag which is what u shoot i beleive but if i dont really have the money to go with a 70 dollar choke just yet but is it really worth it or could i get just about as good results with a differnt maybe less expensive combo since i really have a hard time spending 20$ on 5 shells....

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

I don't know about 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards.... but I know about 207 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards. ;)





Some of the guys consistantly putting over 200 at 40 yards are using that 4x5x7 stuff.. which basically uses #7 hevi as a buffer... when you have over 500 pellets in a shell... 200 ain't that many. Ain't really such a thing as cheating... but it skews the results a bit. Its spendy... but its nasty stuff.

That pattern in the picture is my Mossberg 835 with a Pure Gold .670 choke tube shooting Hevi-13 3.5" #6s.... and the kicker... its only 1 3/4oz of shot... thats about 375 pellets... with over 200 of those 375 in a 10" circle... do the math..... if the 2 1/4oz loads shoot % wise at tight as the 1 3/4oz loads do.... then it could very well get up around 240+ inside 10".

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

Sorry guys, camera is out in the car and I don't feel like running out to get it right now. I counted it up though and ended up with 193 pellets in 10". The wind was also blowing pretty good when I shot this and most of the pattern seemed to be on the left side of the paper, since it was only a 12" piece of paper I'm assuming I didn't catch the most dense section of the pattern as well. I'm guessing if I would have gotten the 10" circle centered on the most dense section it was well over 200 pellets.

This is the D1ck's Sporting Goods specific Super Mag with the Shur-Shot stock and 23" ribbed barrel, Indian Creek BDS .665 choke, and the new Hevi-13 3.5"/2.25oz #6's. The barrel was somewhat clean when this pattern was shot, it was swabbed once with a bore snake. I might polish it a bit and see what it can do off a bench with no wind and a larger target to catch the most dense 10" section.

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

I can get 200 out of my old 11-87 sps-t shooting the old white hull Hevi 13 #5. So it can be done.

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

Bullshooter, what kind of choke are you shooting?

were u shooting 3" or 3.5"?

Thanks!

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

I have an 11-87 and use the primos jellyhead choke, I shoot Hevi-13 3.5in #6's and get 180 pellets in 10" at 40 yds.. There is better but that is pretty decent.. I don't want it too tight anyway personally... If it's too darn tight if ya get one at 10 yards it's like shooting a slug at the neck.. lol Can be done though.. Even at that I've never shot a tom over about 35 yards or maybe 40.. But they never move that's for sure..

Looks like bullshooter is using a mad max choke, another quality choke..

I have sold several remington chokes this year but I have these left if you want to try any of them.

(Rem Choke) Remington[/b], Turkey Super Full (extended turkey choke) 15.00
(Rem Choke) Remington[/b], Turkey/Predator (extended turkey/coyote choke) 15.00
(Rem Choke) Hastings,[/b] .660 choke (extended turkey choke) 20.00[/ul]
BUT... I would spend a few extra bucks and buy something that seems to be working for many others. May save ya some money in the long run.

Buy a jellyhead or an indian creek choke, buy some Hevi 13 shells or Nitroshells and shoot it again.. 10 pellets in a 10 in circle at 40 yds is not too great for turkey's...

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

Ok...well i have been readin lots of reviews and the truglo chokes seem to have a lot of 5 stars but are those chokes that i shouldnt mess with or are they fine?

I am really looking for something that will pattern good and will drop a tom at 50 yards without busting my wallet.....any ideas?

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

You can and will indeed get incredible patterns from todays custom turkey guns topped with the best of the best after-market chokes. I should stress that it is very important to buy the better chokes though and add to this equation you MUST select THE best turkey loads available. This doesn't mean that you'll be able to pick up any load and then a middle of the road choke and expect similar results.

It's been my experience that the majority of times this means that you will be shooting HEVI-SHOT Hevi-13 loads and an Indian Creek, Black Diamond Strike custom choke.

Black Diamond Strike choke....



On the right is a typical target withWinchester XX Mag Turkey loads,..... while the target on the right is the SAME gun (T/C Encore)with the 3" 2oz #6 Hevi-13 and custom choke..... as you can see, the difference in ammo alone is shocking! [:-]



These changes have made for one seriously wicked turkey gun that can still be handled well by my 12 year old Daughter. :)

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

BHB I am shooting a 3" gun and the choke is one of the First run of the Mad MAX ( .655)chokes by the Durry Boys. I am also doing 190 + hits with my Winchester Super X-2 and the Rhino .670 shooting both the 2 1/4 oz new Hevi and Winchester Ex-Range shells.
Here is what my X-2 is doing at 43 yds. No need to buy the NITRO's even though I have a box of 20...

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

Thats awesome!

so would it be better for me to buy a factory choke thats an extended .665 that excepts all types of shot or a tight wad or tru glo strut stopper or something?

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

Which Indian Creek fits the Encore?

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

BHB; I guess it all depends on what you want to do with your gun. I only shoot mine several times each spring. I do not use my turkey guns for any other hunting.
It looks like the new Indian Creek chokes are tearing the still target shoots up, and there are a bunch of guys on the NWTF siteand oldgobbler.com giving them some great reviews. Let us knw what you end up doing and how it shoots for you.

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

The correct choke for the 12 gauge Encore barrel will be listed as follows...

Winchoke, Moss 500 & 9200, Browning Invector (not Invector Plus)

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

There is some good combos here, but I would like to start people off right if possable,

To startif you post your combo you should make sure you post what gauge you are shooting. I see most of these are 12 gauge diam's.In constriction so I will carry on with my thoughts here.

In the past couple years the 20 gauge is coming on strong as well for a turkey gun. What I see that confuses everyone is that combo's that are posted on public forums are always posted with no a lot of detail as with the shell used.

Testing range
All your testing should be done out at your max shooting distance. This distance should be at the 40 yard mark. The reason behind this is that you want to see what your combo is going to do at the max ethical range of a killing shot.This is going to tell you a couple or few things.

1. How dense is your combo at this range.
2. Is your combo holding an even pattern at this range on most shots?
3.Is your pattern dense enough to get a few more yards out of it and make it a 45 yard turkey gun?

What this testing tells you is that if the pattern is holding a dense pattern then you know you have a true turkey thumper out to the max range and you do not have to question yourself if you want to take a shot in that range that is not going happen closer.

Any shell/choke combo will shoot good patterns at closer ranges. To test a lot of shells at 20 or 30 yards is more of how the pattern hits that target other then how many shot you can place at that range. All turkey guns will only get better patterns the closer you shoot, so spend your test money at the 40 yard range.

The more shot you can place in that 10 in circle in an even pattern the better your success will be to cleanly take a bird at your farthest ethical range.

Remember shooting at birds out past your shooting range because you think maybe I can kill it, only make your gobblers more pressured in your hunting area. Next time he may never come close for a shot and you have one less bird to become successful.


Nitro'sare not the typical turkey loads. They are made up of 60 - 70% of #7 shot in a load that will fill a target and fool the customer into thinking he has a super pattern and then up against a normal straight turkey load from another company, it Can Not be beat. This sells the shell easily. Not that these loads do not kill, because they do and #7 has the energy that is needed to take the game at an ethical shot. The problem is in the regulations forwarded from the games department in some states that regulate the shot size used to hunt turkeys. In Ontario it is Illegal to use these type loads as the regulations state #4-#5- or #6 shot size only.
I kid to most about shooting sugar at them when they do use these shells

After testing most shell types on the market today Hevi shot is one of the leaders in hevi shot loads. With the energy that hevi shot delivers you have no problem taking birds at 45-50 yards and with #6 loads. Remember Hevi shot sizes are one size smaller then copper/lead so #6 in Hevi shot is really #5 in lead. Some other information you should keep a close eye on with shells is the content weight of the load. 1 1/2 oz load will have a hard time to stand up with a 2 oz load in any shell. This will also add to the density of a pattern. #4 shot has not got the same amount of shot in a load as #6 has. The #6 is going to have more holes in the target because of the amount of shot in the hull.

3 in vs. 3 1/2 inch shells.

Are they any better? Will you get a better density in a pattern?
Not always. After testing two different loads in Hevi shot last week a 3 in. Hevi 13 in white 12 gauge out patterned a Remington 3 1/2 at 40 yards. Believe me the shooter changed his mind after the shoulder shock and seeing the pattern of them both in the end. I learned this back when I shot a 10 gauge back some 15 years ago.

Copper loads have changed over the years but the Winchester HV loadsare very hard to beat. After testing and owning near ever company type turkey load, I have ran a number of them through different chokes and sizing.

An important question that was asked was “Can any choke produce this type of pattern" the answer is NO plain out.

Aftermarket turkey chokes are priced as they are for a reason and that is the work involved in them. Most have long tapers in them and the sizing is important when it comes to patterning.

Forcing cone work could also help or could help form the pattern to an even pattern if you have holes in it before hand. I have had a 10% increase in the density of patterns in my turkey gun since I had it done, but I have heard but not scene that it has caused a decrease in them too.

Clean Barrels are very important, and cleaning them with a bore snake is NOT going to cut it. A barrel of a gun should be worked on for some time. When starting out always use oil or cleaner of some sort and I use 000 steal wool and a drill. I then change to scotebrite and run thought different colours until I end with the white. White is the finest and will polish the barrel to a Glass shine from one end to the other. The forcing cone area will be the hardest to clean down to a shine, but it can be done and not in 10 minutes either.

In my ending here will say I have tested turkey guns to know end 12 and 20 and have seen what is working and what does not do so well. Sizing is the most important part of the choke for what you intend to use for shells. If you are using the 12 gauge and want to start out in the right step, start with spending a little bit more money in a choke and get something that is going to produce what you’re after in the first place. Next make sure you read the information on the choke and get what you plan on shooting as in hevi shot loads or copper/lead. A little tip is that you can shoot copper with a hevi shot choke, but you are not to shoot hevi shot with a lead only choke the difference is in the metal used in the choke.

Sizing that I have found the best in both 12 and 20 gauge are

12 gauge - .660 - .665 and this works for both hevi and lead.
20 gauge - .550 -.555 and this works for both shell types.

Choke Companies that tend to shoot the best patterns are

Indian Creek
Swarm
Pure Gold
Precision Arms
Rhino

I am impressed with the pattern the Mad Max has shot here on these replies as well. This is a choke I have not had a chance to test as of yet.

What this all is saying is that if you use only a normal Turkey load of all the same size load like all #4 -all#5- or all#6 you are Not going to get patterns that you see from these 4-5-7 Nitro loads. Copper/lead users will not get these same patterns either. With a little testing and getting the right sizing in chokes and shells you will get real close to what patterns are being boosted about...

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

Adrian,
Great post.........in your experience how much center density do you figure you lose on average patterning from a dirty barrel?

When I first started patterning my new Remington Supermag / ICSS Black Diamond Strike with the Hevi13 #6's I honestly didn't know the correlation between a clean barrel and tighter patterns. I assumed it was just luck of the draw shot to shot and that the choke/load was everything.

I was getting 180+ pellets in 10" at 40 yards (one was over 200 if I could redraw on a shot I pulled a bit high offhand) but these were after a dozen initial closer range shots to sight in the new scope.

Even a 10% jump in center density on a clean polished barrel will get me consistently and easily over 200 pellets in 10".

Is it safe to say that I can leave the sights alone, clean the barrel and simply expect more hits in 10" at 40 yards on the same POA?
Its a thumper now with a nice even distribution but if I can up it 10-15 or more % on center density it will be a no brainer 45-50yard max gun.

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

Matt, fantastic questions and I hope I can answer this in everyones opinion but I'm sure I will not be able. I can only answer to my findings with my 20 gauge that I shoot now. As I test shells I notice a drop in every shot for about 6 shells ran through the gun. As most very I would be safe to say that I lose about 2- 3 % a shot for 4 - 5 shot after losing up to 10% in about 6 shots.

I do give my gun a real good cleaning after 6-8 shells shots.

When I take the gun back to the cleaning room I will spend a good 1/2 - 3/4 of anhour starting with a wrap of 00# steal wool on a cleaning brush,in the drill andrun it up and down the barrel a few times. I will change and run a white cleaning patch to collect the crud and then drop down to 000# steal wool do the same. I use WD-40 everytime I changethe cleaning rodand then after I finish with the steal wool I go to Red scotchbrite, blue, green and end up using white for the last of the cleaning until I can run it up and down the barrel and it comes out White with no dark or black fowl at all on it.

When you look at the inside of the barrel at a light it should reflect light all the way down with a glass finish. It is easy to keep this up and just as easy if it don't work for your setup to get it dirty once again.

Every gun I have cleaned for friends this way has shot much better then it did when it was dirty, the only difference is spending the time working on your barrel...

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

I'd also like to add my 2 cents....I've been hunting longbeards since 1968, I've seen alot of shells come and go..I've tested most of them and would conclude that we've come a long long way since the 1960's.... the stuff we shot back then wouldn't hold a candle to the stuff used today...these are the best of times in the turkey shooting world for sure.. I'm just wondering if haven't reached about the end of what can be accomplishedwith ashotgun ..it seems like it's all about what's flying through the air..hevi-shot vs copper vs lead etc... it's like the 320 feet per second barrier in the bow world, with bows in hunting form, not bare... I also agree that not every 3 1/2 will out shoot every 3 inch.. I've seen on paper the facts.. YOUMUST TEST whatever you choose on paper...lots of gobbler lives have been spared over the years by hunters who refuse to test, you'd be surprised how many never fire any shell at paper.. I don't know how they can live with themselves, YOU MUST know where they hit.. saves alot of suffering or wounding and crippling.. whatever shell you choose and what ever choke.. TEST...give them a fair shake also, clean that barrel between shots and let em' cool off and I've also found out that shooting off your knee against a backrest will make things real... myself.. good ole' Federal Heavyweights, 2 oz. #5's, the blue and gold box... from my Hastings .655 choke in my ole WW 1300 NWTF...every gobbler I've ever shot at was dead on arrival..they shoot straight as an arrow from my shotgun and I've tested them to 50 yards and feel confident of the hit.. so no matter what you shoot, TESTTEST AND TEST..shoot it on paper, we owe that to them !!

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

Wow...thats ALOT of good info.....well i am official now and when i get the money im gonna go with a ICSS, hevishot, and a good cleaning kit!

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

This is a great thread. When Matt told me what Rick James was getting with his (super turkey snyper set-up)[8D] I just about went with Matt to get the same thing. I mean Geez, how can you argue with that.I thought RJ was doing over kill but after seeing what itdoes to a target and to a bird (courtesty of Matt's video) WOW. what performance. It seems almost unfair but those little jelly heads deserve it :DsoI stuck with my trust 1187 and jelly head tube. with #5 1 7/8 oz. and went and bought a new kimbe rpistol;)

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

Can i watch the vid or is it not for show?

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

It would take me 50 years to download it on dial up and you can't see much other than the jake I shot last day getting flipped like he was hit with a truck at about 42 yards through the woods and a little brush.

It's not one of those pretty tripod open field views, its Handicam footage from my gun mount.....pretty good for what it is but I wasn't zoomed in very tight on the bird.

There was exactly ONE pellet in his breast. (which reminds me, it's still there, I need to get that out :D)

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

hahah...cool

well i just wanted to see how hard it got hit but it sounds like it was DANG hard!

thats awesome!

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

I dont know about 200 but I know about 306.

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

Gotta love those Nitro loads!!;)

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

WOW!!!

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

Any of you Nitro guys every open one of those shells up and see just what percentage of those loads are #7's and if there is anything smaller than #7 in there? Just curious.........

What does #7 shot do to a turkey at 40 yards? Does it really carry the energy needed to do sufficient damage at those distances?

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

7 1/2 shot at 40+ yards... Hevi-shot may, may get some penetration at those yardages but I'd have to see it to believe it.. I shot some 7 1/2's, Federal 2 oz a few years back at a little cardboard device I made..it had 7 sheets of cardboard inside, compared to the big 3, 4-5-6's, they did not do well, only two or three sheets compared to 5-6-7 sheets for the others. I''ve never tested Hevi-shot 7 1/2, they would do better in my opinion.. Any one ever skinned out a skull shot at over 40+ yards..did they make it throught the skull plate?? 45-50 would really be a push compared to 5's and 4's.... Some of you may remember ACTIV...shells, they bounced off and had very little penetration at 40+ yards... What's the cost of the NITRO shells ??

RE: 200 pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards????
 

I'd be curious to hear the results of that myself.....I thought I remembered reading that someone did just that (I can't find it now?) and there was a bunch of # 7 1/2 and even smaller 8's or 9's mixed in to apparently send the pellet count through the roof.

Sounds like it would be devastating at 20-30 yards but I too wonder about using them at longer ranges where this patterning stuff really shines.
Those Nitro 4-5-7's were on my short list of shells to try at one point along with the Winchester HD's.