Barrel lenght affects on patterns
04-10-2008, 08:03 PM
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 73
Barrel lenght affects on patterns
I bouhgt my father a Remington 870 magnum with a 21" barrel mated with a extra full remington choke from Gander Mountain last week as an early birthday present(paid 299 plus tax). I bouhgt this gun b/c I liked the shorter length for him to use in his blind and ease of movement. The one thing I've noticed though its pattern is approx.1/2 the tightness as my 870 w/ a 28" barrel using a Rem. superful choke.
My gun with Rem. 4x6 and Win. Turkey load #5 I'm getting approx. 20-25 pellets in a 3" circle @ 30yrds; when we put my superful onto his barrel and shooting the same loads and distance he got approx. 10-15 pellets in the same circle. We also noticed that the wads from my gun were traveling 3' farther downrange than his. I want to be able to increase his pattern tightness some but am unsure what to do. In your experience, should I worry about this or is this patterning going to work fine?
My gun with Rem. 4x6 and Win. Turkey load #5 I'm getting approx. 20-25 pellets in a 3" circle @ 30yrds; when we put my superful onto his barrel and shooting the same loads and distance he got approx. 10-15 pellets in the same circle. We also noticed that the wads from my gun were traveling 3' farther downrange than his. I want to be able to increase his pattern tightness some but am unsure what to do. In your experience, should I worry about this or is this patterning going to work fine?
04-10-2008, 09:09 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
RE: Barrel lenght affects on patterns
ORIGINAL: littlekid
I bouhgt my father a Remington 870 magnum with a 21" barrel mated with a extra full remington choke from Gander Mountain last week as an early birthday present(paid 299 plus tax). I bouhgt this gun b/c I liked the shorter length for him to use in his blind and ease of movement. The one thing I've noticed though its pattern is approx.1/2 the tightness as my 870 w/ a 28" barrel using a Rem. superful choke.
My gun with Rem. 4x6 and Win. Turkey load #5 I'm getting approx. 20-25 pellets in a 3" circle @ 30yrds; when we put my superful onto his barrel and shooting the same loads and distance he got approx. 10-15 pellets in the same circle. We also noticed that the wads from my gun were traveling 3' farther downrange than his. I want to be able to increase his pattern tightness some but am unsure what to do. In your experience, should I worry about this or is this patterning going to work fine?
I bouhgt my father a Remington 870 magnum with a 21" barrel mated with a extra full remington choke from Gander Mountain last week as an early birthday present(paid 299 plus tax). I bouhgt this gun b/c I liked the shorter length for him to use in his blind and ease of movement. The one thing I've noticed though its pattern is approx.1/2 the tightness as my 870 w/ a 28" barrel using a Rem. superful choke.
My gun with Rem. 4x6 and Win. Turkey load #5 I'm getting approx. 20-25 pellets in a 3" circle @ 30yrds; when we put my superful onto his barrel and shooting the same loads and distance he got approx. 10-15 pellets in the same circle. We also noticed that the wads from my gun were traveling 3' farther downrange than his. I want to be able to increase his pattern tightness some but am unsure what to do. In your experience, should I worry about this or is this patterning going to work fine?
As to barrel length, historically it made a difference.... today it does not. Good article in Turkey Call magazine last month about that. A shot charge has reached its max velocity in 18"-19" of barrel. I have a 20" barrel on my turkey gun and it outshoots every 26"-28" barreled 12ga I've ever seen and shot or been in the prescense of when being patterned (save on other 835 with a 24" barrel....that gun is 1 in 1000).
04-10-2008, 09:09 PM
#4
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 25
RE: Barrel lenght affects on patterns
Your going to have to start messing with load, choke combos. if you want to spring the big bucks, and in the long run save some big bucks because all the other stuff wont beat nitrocompany.com triplex load in hevi. you will be able to exstend the killing range on you and your dads guns for sure.im willing to bet it will tripple the pellet holes in a 10 inch cir at 40 yards. they will recomend a rhino or a jellyhead tube, jellyheads are cheap, you can buy one and try it out on both guns. shorter barrels dont shoot as tight as some of the still shoot 30" barrels , and you will loose some velocity, but they can be made into deadly killers,I have a few short barrel rems that can cleanly killat exstended ranges,so dont give up .it takes a little work i hope this helps------
04-10-2008, 09:16 PM
#5
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 25
RE: Barrel lenght affects on patterns
every shell make has a differnt burn rate for powder so some may max out on burn at a certain length. trust me the heavier loads have a slower burning powder to keep it to saami spec. rule of thumb, is that you loose around 10 fps per inch shorter that 26, and you will loose center core pattern , this is why your pattern is so open. if you dont believe me there is mo mistake all the still shoot turkey target / and card shooters shoot 30+ barrels . now you can get it to shoot awsome , but it will take some work.
04-11-2008, 12:57 AM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pine Hill Alabama USA
Posts: 1,280
RE: Barrel lenght affects on patterns
I have a little Mossberg 500 tactical turkey gun with a 20 inch barrel that will put 90 pellets from a 3 inchWinchester Supreme number 5 in a 8 inch circle at 40 yards with a Primos Jellyhead choke tube.
The length ofthe barrel is no longer the major factor in how a shotgun patterns. Findingthe right choke/ammo combination for a particular shotgun is far more important.
The length ofthe barrel is no longer the major factor in how a shotgun patterns. Findingthe right choke/ammo combination for a particular shotgun is far more important.
04-11-2008, 05:08 AM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 9,085
RE: Barrel lenght affects on patterns
swampcolie nailed it...
i believe i have the same gun as you just bought...21" barrel and had an extended remington extra full choke in it...
put a Undertaker Hevishot choke tube in it....boy what a world of difference. started throwing all turkey loads great...i tried like 4 or 5 different loads and they all patterned 1000% better and would all do more than well to put down a bird farther than i will shoot at one...
definently play around with different loads and chokes...funny what a difference a 20$ choke tube made
i believe i have the same gun as you just bought...21" barrel and had an extended remington extra full choke in it...
put a Undertaker Hevishot choke tube in it....boy what a world of difference. started throwing all turkey loads great...i tried like 4 or 5 different loads and they all patterned 1000% better and would all do more than well to put down a bird farther than i will shoot at one...
definently play around with different loads and chokes...funny what a difference a 20$ choke tube made
04-11-2008, 06:37 AM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
RE: Barrel lenght affects on patterns
ORIGINAL: turkeyslayer34
every shell make has a differnt burn rate for powder so some may max out on burn at a certain length. trust me the heavier loads have a slower burning powder to keep it to saami spec. rule of thumb, is that you loose around 10 fps per inch shorter that 26, and you will loose center core pattern , this is why your pattern is so open. if you dont believe me there is mo mistake all the still shoot turkey target / and card shooters shoot 30+ barrels . now you can get it to shoot awsome , but it will take some work.
every shell make has a differnt burn rate for powder so some may max out on burn at a certain length. trust me the heavier loads have a slower burning powder to keep it to saami spec. rule of thumb, is that you loose around 10 fps per inch shorter that 26, and you will loose center core pattern , this is why your pattern is so open. if you dont believe me there is mo mistake all the still shoot turkey target / and card shooters shoot 30+ barrels . now you can get it to shoot awsome , but it will take some work.
There are so many other/additional variables that make a difference when it comes to ultimate pattern results...barrel length is honestly one of the last concerns I'd have from a turkey HUNTING stand point.... I'd be concerned at times that a barrel was too long.
Oh and one other thing... if your 870 is throwing 20-25 pellets of #5 in a 3" circle at 30 yards.... then you have a pretty dang strong shooter. I'm not telling you that not all guns are capable of such performence, but its clear that you have found a combonation that is really sweet in your 870. My best friend (who owns the 1 in 1000 mossberg 835) had a choke tube custom made that shoots awesome out of his gun... I put it in mine and it shot worse than even the stock X-factor tube... I was really suprised at how much differently one gun can shoot from the next, even when almost everything is seemingly identical.
04-11-2008, 09:48 AM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fulton county IL USA
Posts: 4,271
RE: Barrel lenght affects on patterns
ORIGINAL: SwampCollie
You need to try a differnet choke tube and differnet shells.
You need to try a differnet choke tube and differnet shells.
On the right in a "standard" Winchester XX Mag Turkey lead load from 40.....
On the right is the same gun, only shooting the Hevi-13 load from 40 yards
We also spent/wasted good money on a handful of custom after market chokes and the Black Diamond Strike blew the competition away! I can understand why the last few World Record shot groups at the N.W.T.F shoots have been set by this choke.
04-11-2008, 10:53 AM
#10
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 25
RE: Barrel lenght affects on patterns
ORIGINAL: SwampCollie
That is true 34.... however, slower shot charges typically remain tighter because there is less force/wind resistance pushing them apart.... just my expereince there. Still target shooters use #9 or #8 shot and .640 card cutter tubes.... those Remington STS or Winchester AA target loads they use have extremely fast burn rates. Rationale behind using a 30" barrel is simple: 1) Most people still believe it takes a long barrel to have a tight/dense pattern 2) a lot of competitive folks take advantage of everything they can.... if a 32" barrel puts you 12" closer to the target.... then you are closer and that may make the difference.
There are so many other/additional variables that make a difference when it comes to ultimate pattern results...barrel length is honestly one of the last concerns I'd have from a turkey HUNTING stand point.... I'd be concerned at times that a barrel was too long.
Oh and one other thing... if your 870 is throwing 20-25 pellets of #5 in a 3" circle at 30 yards.... then you have a pretty dang strong shooter. I'm not telling you that not all guns are capable of such performence, but its clear that you have found a combonation that is really sweet in your 870. My best friend (who owns the 1 in 1000 mossberg 835) had a choke tube custom made that shoots awesome out of his gun... I put it in mine and it shot worse than even the stock X-factor tube... I was really suprised at how much differently one gun can shoot from the next, even when almost everything is seemingly identical.
ORIGINAL: turkeyslayer34
every shell make has a differnt burn rate for powder so some may max out on burn at a certain length. trust me the heavier loads have a slower burning powder to keep it to saami spec. rule of thumb, is that you loose around 10 fps per inch shorter that 26, and you will loose center core pattern , this is why your pattern is so open. if you dont believe me there is mo mistake all the still shoot turkey target / and card shooters shoot 30+ barrels . now you can get it to shoot awsome , but it will take some work.
every shell make has a differnt burn rate for powder so some may max out on burn at a certain length. trust me the heavier loads have a slower burning powder to keep it to saami spec. rule of thumb, is that you loose around 10 fps per inch shorter that 26, and you will loose center core pattern , this is why your pattern is so open. if you dont believe me there is mo mistake all the still shoot turkey target / and card shooters shoot 30+ barrels . now you can get it to shoot awsome , but it will take some work.
There are so many other/additional variables that make a difference when it comes to ultimate pattern results...barrel length is honestly one of the last concerns I'd have from a turkey HUNTING stand point.... I'd be concerned at times that a barrel was too long.
Oh and one other thing... if your 870 is throwing 20-25 pellets of #5 in a 3" circle at 30 yards.... then you have a pretty dang strong shooter. I'm not telling you that not all guns are capable of such performence, but its clear that you have found a combonation that is really sweet in your 870. My best friend (who owns the 1 in 1000 mossberg 835) had a choke tube custom made that shoots awesome out of his gun... I put it in mine and it shot worse than even the stock X-factor tube... I was really suprised at how much differently one gun can shoot from the next, even when almost everything is seemingly identical.
the card shoots in another whole galaxy of shooting a; kinds of wierd guns, totaly custom ground up using the #8-9 with 34 inch barrels and step chokes, sleeves etc....sounds like fun