|
RE: 3" vs. 3.5"
ORIGINAL: Wingbone You can only kill a turkey so dead. If you can get 3" shells to pattern well, he won't be any deader with a 3.5" shell. Why have the extra expense and punishment? |
RE: 3" vs. 3.5"
DB I have put so many 3" and 3 1/2" loads through my 835 I honestly couldn't recall them all. BUT I do know that THE greatest (and one I am sold on) load I have shot from it is the Nitro Ammunition Co. 2 1/4oz 4x5x7 HeviShot triplex 3 1/2" that Ray specifically loads for the 835/935 Mossys. These guns have a larger backbore (nearly 10ga) than anyother 3 1/2" 12 so they can really deliver a payload, but the ammo must be loaded properly to take advantage of that extra ability. I can't remember the exact part number of Ray's but I know it ends with the letter "M" beside the numbers. That differentiates them from others as being for "M"ossbergs only, his other part numbers only feature numbers and no other loads of his are loaded for a specific model gun. He also loads a 2 1/4oz 7 H.S. load that is pure hell on anything inside of 50 yds. Remember a #7 piece of HeviShot is as heavy as a copperplated #6 lead so theyyield similar knockdown but obviously you get a higher pellet count with the 7s. 2 1/4oz of 7s is ALOOOOOOOOOOT of shot flyin in the air!!! ;)(LOL he told me he has loaded a #7 HS for 10ga.s which had 3oz of the stuff in it. The pellet count is over 1000!!! :D)
As is the key I spoke about while using lead alternatives is NOT to overchoke them. Rhino builds a .680" tube that is superb for lead, nickel, copper and similar low cost shot types. But for pure HeviShot, Winchester Extendeds etc... type metals you should go with the .695" Rhino for the 835/935. I think alot of guys are under the misconception that acombo that patterns extremely tight @ 30-40 yds will likewise be thebest long range option. That simply isn't so. I have some guns and loads that will make you scratch your head in wonderment at 30-40yds. But when you put the target at 50-60+ yds the patterns quickly begin to lose their luster. IMHO it's all about pellet delivery and energy retention at extreme ranges. ANY load dumped ona turkey at 35 yds is gonna put him down. But at long ranges...that is why I shoot the combo I shoot. (Like I said, 22 pellets @ 60yds in a 12oz can. Most turkeys are killed with only 2-5 shots in the head/spinal column.) When Remington first came out with HeviShot loads several years ago I used them in my 870 Supermag with an old original .665 TruGlo (the old Basner tubes that had 3 rings of ports, vs the cheaper and lesser performing tubes from TG now). The gun shot Rem HeviShot very well, much better in fact than the same gun and tubedid with2oz and 2 1/4oz copperplated #5 Winchester Supremes. Lead just doesn't hold up very well after 50-55yds. Inside of that, and like I said don't bother with the expensive stuff! As for the new Federals I just don't know as I haven't tried them myself and haven't heard much from customers who have either. The new Winchester Extendeds are getting ALOT of good marks everywhere. But I know it is from alot of guys who have only been shooting lead and nothing else. For them they just can't get over the mental image of paying for Nitro loads yet they want something more than lead and for whatever reasons they haven't yet tried Remington's HeviShot. Thus the marketing for the Rem, Win, Fed lead substitute loads. (Let me also say that part of the "hype" with the Winchesters is their concentricity. They play on the "well that makes sense" thought in our heads about Extended being much rounder than HeviShot. But at therelatively low velocities and short distances we are talking about, the shape of shot has no realaffects on its ballistics like they would werewe talking about riflery and hundreds of yards at thousands of feet per second.) Another point I feel needs to be brought up is that of out distancing the commonbead or even the aftermarket "turkey sights" like those from TruGlo. A turkey head/neck is simply to small of a target at ranges over 50 yds to only use those types of sights. I feel it is MANDATORY for the prudent hunter to use a red dot/holographic or even a common duplex magnification scope when using long range guns for long range birds. With a bead you are just "pointing at bird" at 55yds. With a red dot you are able to pick a spot like the head or my favorite "where feathers meet skin" on the neck. If you aren't willing to spend the money for a mount, scope, tube, custom load then don't bother trying to "stunt shoot" a turkey at 65 yds. You're only kidding yourself and risking cleanly taking a grand animal that "ol Tom" is! When I hear Joe 6 Pack say, "Wellllllllll I killed a bird at 75 yds with my ol 3" New Englander with a extra full turkey tube and a copperplated 5s!!! :eek:In most cases he is clueless about the range and even if he isn't, he is dead lucky and couldn't duplicate that shot 1ce in a lifetime... Good luck, RA |
RE: 3" vs. 3.5"
ORIGINAL: RedAllison DB I have put so many 3" and 3 1/2" loads through my 835 I honestly couldn't recall them all. BUT I do know that THE greatest (and one I am sold on) load I have shot from it is the Nitro Ammunition Co. 2 1/4oz 4x5x7 HeviShot triplex 3 1/2" that Ray specifically loads for the 835/935 Mossys. These guns have a larger backbore (nearly 10ga) than anyother 3 1/2" 12 so they can really deliver a payload, but the ammo must be loaded properly to take advantage of that extra ability. I can't remember the exact part number of Ray's but I know it ends with the letter "M" beside the numbers. That differentiates them from others as being for "M"ossbergs only, his other part numbers only feature numbers and no other loads of his are loaded for a specific model gun. He also loads a 2 1/4oz 7 H.S. load that is pure hell on anything inside of 50 yds. Remember a #7 piece of HeviShot is as heavy as a copperplated #6 lead so theyyield similar knockdown but obviously you get a higher pellet count with the 7s. 2 1/4oz of 7s is ALOOOOOOOOOOT of shot flyin in the air!!! ;)(LOL he told me he has loaded a #7 HS for 10ga.s which had 3oz of the stuff in it. The pellet count is over 1000!!! :D) As is the key I spoke about while using lead alternatives is NOT to overchoke them. Rhino builds a .680" tube that is superb for lead, nickel, copper and similar low cost shot types. But for pure HeviShot, Winchester Extendeds etc... type metals you should go with the .695" Rhino for the 835/935. I think alot of guys are under the misconception that acombo that patterns extremely tight @ 30-40 yds will likewise be thebest long range option. That simply isn't so. I have some guns and loads that will make you scratch your head in wonderment at 30-40yds. But when you put the target at 50-60+ yds the patterns quickly begin to lose their luster. IMHO it's all about pellet delivery and energy retention at extreme ranges. ANY load dumped ona turkey at 35 yds is gonna put him down. But at long ranges...that is why I shoot the combo I shoot. (Like I said, 22 pellets @ 60yds in a 12oz can. Most turkeys are killed with only 2-5 shots in the head/spinal column.) When Remington first came out with HeviShot loads several years ago I used them in my 870 Supermag with an old original .665 TruGlo (the old Basner tubes that had 3 rings of ports, vs the cheaper and lesser performing tubes from TG now). The gun shot Rem HeviShot very well, much better in fact than the same gun and tubedid with2oz and 2 1/4oz copperplated #5 Winchester Supremes. Lead just doesn't hold up very well after 50-55yds. Inside of that, and like I said don't bother with the expensive stuff! As for the new Federals I just don't know as I haven't tried them myself and haven't heard much from customers who have either. The new Winchester Extendeds are getting ALOT of good marks everywhere. But I know it is from alot of guys who have only been shooting lead and nothing else. For them they just can't get over the mental image of paying for Nitro loads yet they want something more than lead and for whatever reasons they haven't yet tried Remington's HeviShot. Thus the marketing for the Rem, Win, Fed lead substitute loads. (Let me also say that part of the "hype" with the Winchesters is their concentricity. They play on the "well that makes sense" thought in our heads about Extended being much rounder than HeviShot. But at therelatively low velocities and short distances we are talking about, the shape of shot has no realaffects on its ballistics like they would werewe talking about riflery and hundreds of yards at thousands of feet per second.) Another point I feel needs to be brought up is that of out distancing the commonbead or even the aftermarket "turkey sights" like those from TruGlo. A turkey head/neck is simply to small of a target at ranges over 50 yds to only use those types of sights. I feel it is MANDATORY for the prudent hunter to use a red dot/holographic or even a common duplex magnification scope when using long range guns for long range birds. With a bead you are just "pointing at bird" at 55yds. With a red dot you are able to pick a spot like the head or my favorite "where feathers meet skin" on the neck. If you aren't willing to spend the money for a mount, scope, tube, custom load then don't bother trying to "stunt shoot" a turkey at 65 yds. You're only kidding yourself and risking cleanly taking a grand animal that "ol Tom" is! When I hear Joe 6 Pack say, "Wellllllllll I killed a bird at 75 yds with my ol 3" New Englander with a extra full turkey tube and a copperplated 5s!!! :eek:In most cases he is clueless about the range and even if he isn't, he is dead lucky and couldn't duplicate that shot 1ce in a lifetime... Good luck, RA |
RE: 3" vs. 3.5"
Ugh....You know all these damn forums about choke tubes and different loads is beginning to cost me more and more money every week!!!!!!!
Why cant someone justprint the definitive guide to turkey choke and load combos... I mean, come on now, everytime I get a good pattern and then look on the forums here, I eye my target and think, "Hmmm, maybe I need every pellet within a two inch circle. Hell, maybe I just want to decapitate the bird, make sure I got plenty of knockdown power. I mean, heck, just in case I ever want to shoot out to 100 yards and have the bird roll backwards ten feet. Yeah yeah, that is what I need." Man, I just want a good pattern...guess I need my gun back first though:D |
RE: 3" vs. 3.5"
lol Campo, I know what you mean. I used to "content" as well. But after spending enough time having birds parade around in pastures in southern MO and across foodplots here in west TN I thought, "There has GOT to a better way". Thus my quest for long range shotgunning.
JL I don't know where to tell you to look in NY (I am in Jackson, TN) but go onto Rays website www.nitrocompany.com and if he doesn't have a dealer list at least you can get ahold of him and he can get you headed in the right direction. Be warned his loads are VERY expensive. About $6 a piece! [:'(]But let me tell you, after you shoot one or see them in action you would shoot them if they were $20 a piece. It's one of those unique products that work so well people just HAVE TO HAVE EM after they see them in action for themselves. I was sold the first time I pulled the trigger on one. Another thing to remember is when reading Ray's charts online. Those pellet counts are in a 10" circle at 40yds!!! [:-]For most 3.5" guns he promises 230-270 pellets in that 10" circle at that distance. A freakin mosquito couldn't fly through that pattern. ;) Good luck this spring men, RA |
RE: 3" vs. 3.5"
I believe that a slightly lower velocity helps because it helps control the pellets better. I higher velocity shell might also be heavier, making the pattern worse at further ranges.
|
RE: 3" vs. 3.5"
From the looks of all the forums I've been reading, the Winchester XR's are coming closer to the Nitro patterns than any other load.
With that said, we all know that the difference b/t a factory pattern and a Nitro patten is still really no comparison. I am not sure if they Hevi-shot not being uniform makes any difference in its preformance or not, but I do worry about it messing up my gun barrel. So, I quit using it. I would like to see Ray load some of the XR and Heavy Weight shot to see what kind of patterns he could get with the more uniform shot. I have a 3.5'' 12ga BPS. I love the pattern I get. Most companies are now backboring their 3.5'' 12ga's. I guess they are doing this to handle the heavier loads. I bought a 10ga. this year and it will be taking place as my primary turkey gun for a while. So far, I think the 10ga's recoil is less than the 12ga. 3.5''. I think its b/c of the bigger bore. I would love to try some of Ray's 3oz loads. I am trying to get some 3oz lead loads from a guy now that he bought from Nitro and doesn't use them anymore. |
RE: 3" vs. 3.5"
RED ALLSION.
WOW!I agreewhole heartedly.I would like to say if you are going to use open sights for shots farther than 50yds,I would highly advise getting the tru-glo magnum gobble dot pro.It has a smaller front bead,for the exactreasonRED issaying.It's especially nice on longer barreled guns like my 28" super mag.Smaller bead= more pin point aiming. Campo that star-dot,and 3.5" win hv #4 combo wasn't panning out?I'm very suprised if not,and I apologize.That would be the first time I've heard someone disappointed in that combo. |
RE: 3" vs. 3.5"
Ranchand99, the Star Dot definetly threw a tight pattern, but like I posted my gun broke before I could get anything consistent out of it, but the Star Dot was definetly throwing the tightest pattern out of my four chokes.
Since I sent my gun back for repair, I have picked up three additional chokes, those being the .680 Kicks and both ID Mad Max's. Tomorrow I am going to Walmart and am going to buy Win HV 4, 5, 6's in 3" (Already have them all in 3.5") and the Federal's 4, 5, and 6 in 3" and 3.5. One would hope a good pattern would come out of one of my seven chokes and one of those nine different loads. I think I should get an honorary PhD in patterning a shotgun though...anyone want to award me one?:D I will be nice though and post all my findings here, so that people can stop asking about the best choke/load combos....right...like that will EVER happen;) |
RE: 3" vs. 3.5"
Campo I would definately be interested in your results.I have not had a chance to do my 60yd test yet.But it is tight between the Star-dot,and mad max,as of now.The Mad max did cost $40 more..I gaurantee the star-dot is still going to hold it's own in your tests.
|
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:45 AM. |
Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.