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GOEX vs. Swiss

Old 02-17-2019, 04:44 PM
  #1  
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Default GOEX vs. Swiss

GOEX vs. SWISS

Iíve always been a GOEX guy. I hardly ever shoot any of the black powder subs. Also, Iíve never tried Swiss black powder even though Iíve seen numerous reports that it produces better accuracy, is cleaner burning and load for load yields higher and more consistent velocities than GOEX. So after many years of resisting the lure of Swiss I decided to get some and see for myself. This is a report of my side-by-side comparison of Swiss and GOEX in the 2F and 3F granulations of each.

For this exercise I chose to use my TC Renegade with a .45 caliber 1:30Ē twist Green Mountain barrel and shoot full bore conicals. I chose this gun and bullet for three reasons; the gun wears a Simmons 4X ProDiamond shotgun scope to keep aiming errors to a minimum, itís already zeroed in for the load I planned to shoot, and Iíve shot the gun and bullet enough to know what kind of accuracy can be expected.

I installed a new AMPCO nipple at the beginning the shooting session and followed the following procedures for the test,

1. Four targets were shot at 100 yards, with five shots on each target and a different powder used for each target. All shots were over a chronograph 10 feet from the muzzle.

2. The first shot on each target was from a cold clean barrel with a three to five minute cooling period between each of the following four shots.

3. The bore was wiped between each shot with both sides of a fresh patch lightly moistened with 91% Isopropyl alcohol - one stroke down and up with each side. The bore was fully cleaned between targets.

4. For the first shot on each target, the bullet was seated until it just touched the powder. Then a stop collar on the loading rod was locked in place 1/8Ē above the muzzle and the load compressed that one-eighth inch. The stop collar remained locked in that position for the following four shots to assure the consistent load compression. The stop collar was reset in this manner for each target.

5. Pre-weighed powder charges of 85 grains actual weight were used.

6. The bullets were flat nose conicals cast from pure soft lead then sized and lubed to .452 diameter. They were weight sorted to assure that all were between 464.0 and 464.5 grains, and inspected to assure all had undamaged bases with sharp corners.

7. A 1/2Ē diameter 1/8Ē thick unlubed wool wad was used under the base of the bullets. 8. Winchester #11 magnum percussion caps from the same tin were used. 9. Shots were from a bench using a Caldwell shooting rest under the foreend and a rabbit ear bag under the butt stock.

Here are the charges ready to be shot.







Hereís the shooting bench and range.









Here are the four targets.

















Here are the cleaning patches that were used to wipe the bore between the fourth and fifth shot with each powder.





And hereís a summary of the results.





You may draw your own conclusions. Itís pretty clear that Swiss produces significantly higher velocities. I didnít find a noticeable difference with respect to the degree of fouling produced by the two powders. However, that may be because I was wiping the bore between each shot. Results may be different with a long shot string without wiping. Iíll never know because I always wipe between shots. With respect to accuracy potential, I found no significant difference between the two powders Ė at least not within my shooting ability or with this particular bullet and load. One day Iíll try a similar side-by-side comparison with patched balls in my .54 Great Plains flintlock. Iíll likely be a GOEX guy forever. I like the stuff and I like supporting an American company.
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Old 02-18-2019, 01:17 PM
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Thanks for sharin.I too have been considering Swiss but with your results I fell just fine supportin Goex an American Co.I use 3F in my rifles.
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Old 02-19-2019, 01:14 AM
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That was some great analysis and effort done to share your personal research with us.
After weighing the charges, did you happen to notice whether the Swiss was 10% - 11% denser by volume compared to the Goex as it has been suggested?
If not that much denser, then did you note how much denser it was by volume?

The Swiss powder is said to be a moister powder which in part increases it's potency.
And that moisture is also thought to promote a softer fouling residue.
That might not be notable unless humidity becomes a factor in some locations during a humid time of the year.

Also, I'm not sure if the Swiss powder is screened to the same size granulation as the Goex powder..
Could that be why Swiss is made in the 1.5 granulation, and could that be more comparable to 2F Goex than 2F Swiss is?

I recently read a report which measured the speed of pan or priming powders for flintlocks
I had never heard of Swiss Null B before, but the report indicated that Swiss Null B was measured to be a slightly faster priming powder than even Swiss 4F.
Yet it's reputed to be floor sweepings leftover from making all of the other granulations.
Here's the article:--->>> https://www.blackpowdermag.com/priming-powder-timing/

Since you're testing a fast twist barrel, it would also be interesting to see if there were any significant accuracy differences using sabots.
One has to wonder whether some bullets [sabots] or projectiles would benefit more from the increased velocity of Swiss than others, as opposed to the bore size conicals.
I realize that's asking too much, especially since you made it clear that the test results were very specific for the bullet & load that you were testing, and conicals are what you like to shoot.
I bought some Swiss myself just to have some, but never actually loaded any black powder for my own use, making my own interest only academic, at least for now.
Thanks for sharing all of your effort.

Last edited by arcticap; 02-19-2019 at 01:23 AM.
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Old 02-19-2019, 08:05 AM
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Regarding a volume comparison of the powders;

100 grain weight of GOEX FFg fills my TC U-View powder measure to the 110 grain volume mark.
100 grain weight of Swiss FFg fills my TC U-View powder measure to the 105 grain volume mark.
100 grain weight of GOEX FFFg fills my TC U-View powder measure to the 109 grain volume mark.
100 grain weight of Swiss FFFg fills my TC U-View powder measure to the 102 grain volume mark.

The powder was weighed on an electronic scale, poured into the U-View measure and the measure tapped several times to settle the powder.
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Old 03-18-2019, 05:14 PM
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i was at the gun club shoot (indoor) and they were all talking about powder and prices ( they stop making it untill may? they get it in maine ) but they all wanted the swiss not Goex and they were saying how much better the swiss was....i just picked up some goex for 58 dollars for 2 pounds I get it from a gun store. this is very interesting thanks for posting.
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Old 12-20-2019, 11:12 AM
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I'm impressed by your diligent methodology. Too many people draw conclusions from a dozen pot-shots. This is the only way to get results you can put any faith in. And even here, in terms of the groupings, there's clearly a lot of randomness involved.
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Old 01-31-2020, 11:28 AM
  #7  
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I used to shoot a lot of Swiss. In looking at your test, I wouldn't bother with it now. I'd just shoot Goex 3F and be happy with the money I saved.

Good job.

I'm interested in the PRB test.
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Old 01-31-2020, 03:21 PM
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That is realIy interesting and thanks for sharing Semi. It appears, based on the data presented, that Swiss FFg yields both better velocity and better accuracy as well as consistency. However when FFFg is used it looks as though Goex has the upper hand in accuracy and consistency but velocity still favoring Swiss.
Playing with the Swiss using different charges may reveal better accuracy but head to head equivalent charges show an obvious advantage in FFg vs FFFg.
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Old 01-31-2020, 05:58 PM
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I've used Swiss FFg for a lot of years now. I note that this post is almost a year old but the information is solid. The consistency of Swiss is why I use it. Their standard of grain measurement is around 40% higher than American standards. By grain measurement I mean the individual granules produced. I have never had an issue with the quality or consistency of Swiss but I have with Goex more than once. Swiss my cost a bit more, in some places a lot more than a bit, but consistency in shot to shot is well worth the price.
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Old 02-01-2020, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by hunters_life View Post
I've used Swiss FFg for a lot of years now. I note that this post is almost a year old but the information is solid. The consistency of Swiss is why I use it. Their standard of grain measurement is around 40% higher than American standards. By grain measurement I mean the individual granules produced. I have never had an issue with the quality or consistency of Swiss but I have with Goex more than once. Swiss my cost a bit more, in some places a lot more than a bit, but consistency in shot to shot is well worth the price.
HL - Did you notice his spread sheet. The Goex in FFFg was far more consistent than the Swiss. But in FFg size, the Swiss was more consistent! Almost as though the results were flipped.
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