Went scouting, found a big surprise
 

My dad, brother and I went and took a ride out to our hunting area today. My dad missed last year due to big surgery issues that almost killed him. Hes been itching bad to go out and do some hiking to get back into shape since he lost so much weight and muscle from the hospital time he did.

We got up there around 2pm and took him to a new camping spot and our jaws dropped.

The person cutting trees down last year, took EVERYTHING, including the trees we parked the camper under! :fighting0007:

We took the time to scout around for a new spot to camp this year and luckily they didnt completely wipe out the next area we will try this year. Its next to a real rough 4x4 trail so hopefully we wont have much traffic. Just really sickened me to see a forest wiped out like that. Living trees! I thought it was illegal in CO ntl forest to cut down living trees for firewood? It sure was when we would cut in ntl forest.

Next step was to do some light hiking and so we took him to our new deer hunting area my brother and I found last year where he got his doe. A little up hill walking, but thats what my dad needs as he gets sick to his stomach when he does any up hill walking. He did real good and we'd stop and take a rest now and then to make sure he didnt over push him self. No deer in he area today but lots of elk sign.

The entire hunting areas are just filled with water and green grass and flowers. It was like walking through a painting. Also picked some mushrooms and found the edible ones.

Just a shot of one of the elk areas I will be hiking down into.


I found a nice deep ravine in that area and want to check it out. Its a long uphill climb, so that will be the day when I strip down the bare minimum and go at it. Maybe find a deer or even a bear down there. They seem to hang out in these areas for shade and water.

On the drive back down the mountain, a little 150lb UGLY as sin, dirty blonde body/ brownish red head, bear ran across the road. Had to have been the ugliest bear i've ever seen to date.

Hunting season is looking good so far, just hope the rain keeps up so we don't have to deal with crunchy grass and leaves. The aspens today were just amazing.

Nice cool rain came through soaking everything, smelled so damn good. A lot of aspen damage however from the spring snows. A lot of the younger trees are stilled bent over and a ton of them are snapped or had to be cut by the forest service. Just a real mess of a jungle.

Nice looking area. But about the trees. They are a natural renewable resource and will come back. Maybe with so many gone they were harvested. No sense having them getting old and die and rot away. And all that fresh young growth coming up next year should be an elk attractant.

I have worked in the Timber industry all of my life, From setting chokers under the big Skagit Yarders, to Production Timber falling (my current position) Jon, In the Timber industry you my friend are what we call a Granola, Tree Hugger, Bunny Hugger, etc. etc.

More than likely the guy is doing this Illegally, There are plenty of idiots everywhere you go that do stuff like this, it's possible the guy is out of work and illegally cutting and selling firewood? That is a common occurrence around here. it is NOT legal to cut living trees on forest service, or state land UNLESS it is a logging sale, The trees are dead, and you have a permit to cut them for firewood, or the trees have been marked as damaged from bugs etc. Are they hauling the logs out on a log Truck? Is there heavy machinery there doing work? Are there trees marked with paint, ribbon, etc? If so its a legal timber sale. By all means, If you think this guy is in the wrong and doing this illegally turn him in to the forest service, they will eventually catch him and he will be in trouble!! Guys like this need to be caught, its a bummer to see Nice living Trees hacked up from Wood cutters! But On the other hand if it is a legal Timber sale LEAVE THE MAN ALONE and let him do his job, until you have done a job like this you have NO IDEA how physically hard, demanding it is! Around here i am called to Fall timber for High Lead logging sides, this means ground machinery can not operate on it due to terrain being to rough, etc. So they hire me to fall the Timber in such places, and they log it from the road with a Swing type Yarder with Cable line, this usually entails Rock cliff, steep, nasty terrain, I put on my gear, throw my saw over my shoulder and go, my life is at risk from the time i start my saw, til my 6hr day is up and i shut my saw down. I invite you to come along sometime, make every step i do in a day, carry the weight i do, etc. i PROMISE you will sleep good that night, and likely have a WHOLE different outlook on Timber falling, and what it takes to get it done.

54 bore, what is your problem? All the man said is that he hated to see such a big chunk of forest wiped out and that he thought it was illegal to cut timber on federal ground. I can't think of one person who would not be disappointed to arrive at their hunting spot and find it gone from being logged off! He certainly didn't say anything to cause you to go off on a tangent and call him a tree hugger, bunny hugger, granola etc. Your presumption and sorry post makes you look like a person who will not get along here, (I won't use the words I want to use), especially since it was your 4th post and you have no feel at all about the people who post on this site. The fact that you work in the logging industry doesn't give you leave to spout the kind of crap that you did. For the record, I eat bunnies, I don't hug them and I don't eat Granola!

MD, I have had this issue as well where I hunt. Not much I can do about it as I don't own the land but it does suck to arrive the following season and finding a very good and productive area barren of what it was. My biggest ax to grind (not pun intended) about it is the minimal oversight of the entire process. Talked to guys that get permission to go in a cut dead timber, pines, and a few other trees but then end up cutting down everything in their path including grand oaks and trees along what has been actually declared marsh lands. Then they turn around and plant pines in their place. It sucks but gotta move on and find a new place to hunt.

Did you seriously read my post? I gave Jon advice on what to do, if it is illegal wood cutting CALL the authorities and turn it in!! As i said, it is a HORRIBLE shame to see our Federal and state land hacked up by people doing it illegally!! BUT if it is NOT illegal, DEAL WITH IT!! Thats logging, it's been being done forever. Some folks have a REAL ISSUE with logging, yet they live in a house built of wood, they wipe there ... with toilet paper that was made from trees. Go ahead and use the words you wanted to, I'd LOVE to hear them!?

Oh yeah, I read each andevery word and these are your words to MountainDevil, not mine," Jon, In the Timber industry you my friend are what we call a Granola, Tree Hugger, Bunny Hugger, etc. etc".

What came afterwards doesn't mean spit, you already insulted the guy. Don't try to crawfish out of it now. You aren't worth getting a ban for using the words I would like to.

Far from a tree hugger. This was young pine. Luckily I have a picture from last year. No tagging or painting on the trees. No clue if it's illegal or not, but the guy wiped out an entire area of trees that were still young and in a high altitude where they would most likely not even reach full potential. Just dissapointed he ruined our area for camping.

Crawfish out of it? LOLOL! You obviously don't know me

Jon, it sounds illegal to me? A real Logging sale ESPECIALLY on forrest service, or state land will clearly be marked, boundaries, trees to be taken etc. If i were you i would turn it in to the Authorities, it is considered Theft of timber, and carries a very hefty penalty

MD, curious, is there a law that says trees marked for removal have to be tagged for a certain period of time prior to removal. Im just asking as is it possible they marked it not long after you where there and then came back and cut it down prior to you getting there?

Lewis?

I imagine he knows a tiny bit more than you think he does. ;)

Lewis is me! Do i know this guy? I might of came across as being rude/mean with the Granola, Tree Hugger, Bunny hugger etc. But in the timber industry that is TRULY what people are called that freak out over logging operations. I have nothing against Jon whatsoever, i probably should have made it more a joke toward Jon since I personally don't know his stand on Logging? I have personally logged areas/fell the trees where i once hunted, and yes it is a bummer in some instances, but nothing one can do about it besides deal with it. State and federal lands Log timber (not so much forrest service anymore, but they do now and then) its been that way for eons, BUT If it is illegal wood cutters falling green trees that is a WHOLE different deal, It falls under theft of timber and carries a serious penalty, possibly jail time

When federal government logs national forests, you should see markings. One color to cut and another for boundary.

By me blue and orange. But you can Google and find the color codes.

Obviously they cut live trees.

It's nice to have trails widen and cleared, but it leaves a mess. Nice in winter when can travel above stumps and tops.

Lots of great firewood left behind.


If you didn't see standing trees with noundties,may not have traveled fire enough.

I've never seen public land clear cut, but they may do it if they have a plan.

Also need to know if it is really public land, or corporate land open to public.

Around here the trees to be cut aren't marked by Forest Service. The trees to be left are marked orange. The boundaries are marked blue. The trees on the boundary are marked both blue, and orange.

Elk, and deer don't eat trees.














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The deer and elk love chewing on aspens. If the branches are low enough, they'll eat the leaves off that tree till there's nothing left.

As for the tree clearing, I'll look further into that. I'm out of state waiting on a transmission to get here. I'll show some pics of the area from last year when I get home.











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US forestry uses different colors than those. I am not sure what is used on private land.

You can Google pdf for federal land. They have 3 different colors for boundary and to be cut.

[QUOTE=ronlaughlin;4311778]Around here the trees to be cut aren't marked by Forest Service. The trees to be left are marked orange. The boundaries are marked blue. The trees on the boundary are marked both blue, and orange.

Elk, and deer don't eat trees.

I moved here to North Idaho from the Wa coast a little over 6 years ago, the way they Log here is totally different than the Coast, here it is 99% thin logging, BUT the funny part is they will log the same unit OVER N OVER, about the time the new little trees start growing good (3-4 years) they will go back in and mark a bunch more timber to cut, the trees will be circled with spray paint, when i go to a job they will tell me to fall every tree with whatever color they have chosen, i have worked State land jobs that had 4 and 5 different colors painted on them, That means its been logged that many times, in my opinion it is one of the DUMBEST things i have ever seen! Why not go in and Log what they want to take 1 time and LEAVE THE PLACE ALONE, allowing the new little trees to grow, but instead they end up destroying most of the new little trees each time they go in and Log, ABSOLUTELY makes no sense?? Greed? I don't know how they think when they lay out these sales, and doubtful i ever will. The State boundary line will be painted in Red slash marks (In a pattern of claw scratch mark)

Here you are allowed to cut firewood for a certain amount of time on State and Federal Land WITH A PERMIT. You are actually allowed and encouraged to Fall dead standing trees, and obviously stuff that is already down. One big problem with this is the Western Larch (Tamarack) they shed their needles in the fall just like leaf bearing trees, and they look dead, when in fact they are fully alive, lot of people take advantage of that and act as if they thought they were dead. Also there are quite a few guys around here that cut firewood for a living, Seems everyone around here burns wood in the winter, firewood is in high demand from folks that aren't able to cut it themselves. For the most part guys seem pretty good about it, they cut true dead standing and down trees, BUT there is always a few that cut green living trees that are easy along side the main mountain rds etc. its these guys that screw it up for EVERYONE, they eventually put gates up and block vehicle traffic from entering due to Theft of Timber.

So as i stated previously, Jon, i would contact State or federal lands (whatever this place is for sure on) and turn the activity in, they will monitor it, and hopefully catch the guy or guys that are doing it, IF in fact they are doing it illegally? But If they have a permit, or it is some how a Timber Sale, there is absolutely ZERO you can do about it. Again, if it is legal it will be marked, either painted, or ribboned, And it is obviously legal if there are log trucks hauling the logs, and heavy equipment in the area

Zero logging trucks. Last year just a guy and I'm assuming his wife out there cutting in a white flat bed dodge. It's just puzzling why they leveled this area. I saw no markings on the trees, they were young growth. Could have been a project in the area, just never know.

That sounds pretty suspicious to me, flat bed dodge, and nothing marked. I'd place a bet that it's illegal firewood cutting. Those kind of characters need stopped, They are the reason we are losing access to our State and Federal lands by means of Gated roads. Could they drive to pretty much everything and load it easy enough without having to pack it very far? Thats another tale tale sighn, most of the illegal firewood guys aren't going to work very hard for it, they usually take whatever they can get to the easiest

Around here loggers use hundreds of thousands of dollars in equipment, and move fast.

Though that sounds like a lot of work for a guy in a pick up. Spruce is not used for heating much either, unless you have outdoor boiler.


Report it find out. Sounds odd both ways.

Is it possible was logged in the winter, when no one was around to notice?

Okay just a roughed out cut line to give an idea. But every tiny little tree is GONE, even trees that were 2 feet high, logs that were rotten, GONE. Next time I go back up, I'll take a picture to show much much is gone now.

Almost forgot, but just to the left of that red line, notice the reddish ground? Those are slash piles from where previous trees had stood. That's what this entire area looks like now.

mind if I jump in with my $.02?
Seems to me the prudent thing to do IS notify the the authorities, confronting someone in the middle of nowhere could go one of two ways...badly or well.

It's better to let the LEO (Law Enforcement Officer) do that, it's what they get paid for.

Besides, if CO is like here...they'd might be required to replace/replant and restore what's taken (unless taken out by fire, sometimes they don't replant and let it go fallow).

Next time I will get up on the mountain for a better view, but heres a picture from today to give you an idea of how wiped out it is.

That had to be a major logging operation that would not have gone unnoticed by local authorities. I don't see how it could have been an illegal activity.

far from major lol. Just a single pickup truck and a guy and his wife im assuming. Notice how the land isn't all marked up with track? Just one truck out there cutting

Jon, Is that just brush from each tree i am seeing, are the stumps pulled out? I cant see the stumps?

Yes, thats a slash pile from each tree. The actual loggers in the area push the slash piles into one huge pile rather than just leave it where it lay. There are stumps left behind as well, but that is the law to leave it around 12" high in certain areas.

Another thing I'd like to point out. Notice the tiny little trees or bushes in the original pic? they are gone as well, even logs that i used last year for pictures, gone.

Perhaps the scale of the picture is deceiving us. About how many impacted acres are we looking at?

im not sure how many acres, but its extremely large area.

Forgot, i took a little video from the road yesterday. Next time I am up there, i'll take more pictures from the mountain, looking down.

My bet now is that it is a legal operation for that much activity, I've got to know you a WHOLE BUNCH better the last few days Jon

this is going on in Virginia and on our leases. When you cut down good hard woods and then plant pines, this will leave nothing to eat for the deer. Our biggest problem is the owners are making obscene amounts of money and that makes it vey attractive!!!

In the long run, it makes our hunting more difficult. I wish I had the money to have my own place!!!