Moose with a PRB
 

Guys I'm applying for a moose permit in ME this year. If I'm successful in the draw and because I can have a subpermitee carry another rifle I think I would like to try and get one with my sidelock.
So the question comes down to which one. Should I use the .54 or the .58? I'm sure either would work fine. I'm leaning toward the .58 myself. Opinions,,

When dealing with moose or other extremely large animals for that matter I firmly believe bigger is better. Especially with round ball. But one consideration is accuracy. I believe both of the calibers will and can get the job done if you place the ball properly from a reasonable distance. But I would look at accuracy and what powder charge the ball from both calibers would accept.

For instance if my .58 shot best with 70 grains of powder but my .54 shot best with 90 grains, I would sure be looking at ballistics of that ball. Both are accurate but in large game you want penetration, so which would penetrate best.

I commend you for attempting this. When I bear hunted my friends wanted to lock me up because I was hunting them one day with a .54 caliber with round ball and 90 grains of powder. I had not purchased my .58 at that time. And I carried a .44 mag revolver as security. I later changed to a REAL conical just to shut them up kind of. But I really had no doubt that the round ball would have got the job done. But never seeing a shooting bear, I never got a chance to prove that.

Bigger balls are better. :D I'd go with the .58.

First off, good luck on that draw, you will need it :D Second, if you are going to use a patched round ball on Moose in a state where you will be one EXTREMELY lucky guy to get drawn, I personally would use the rifle I was most accurate with and could deliver the most lead to target. Either the .54 or the .58 can deliver the weight needed to drop a good bull efficiently so you just need to figure which one you are the absolutely MOST accurate with. It would be a rare thing to get a longer shot than 75 yards in the Main swamps and woods so your range will be fine.

Plugging in the numbers below it looks like even the .58 is inadequate as a big game killer. So much for ballistics huh? At 100 yards I'd have not qu
ite 600 ftlb of energy.
I'm going to play with it later this year and see how much I can increase my load and still maintain good accuracy. The figures below are for 120 grs based on some searching. Right now I'm shooting 100 gr.


http://ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_expe...allistics.html

Got to thinking about an energy comparison of the two with my hunting loads.

My round ball load for the .54 is 95 grains of GOEX FFFg.
That load gives me an average muzzle velocity around 1550 fps.
With 682 ft. lbs. of energy at 50 yards, and 565 ft. lbs. at 75 yards.

My round ball load for the .58 is 105 grains of GOEX FFFg.
That load gives me an average muzzle velocity around 1450 fps.
With 801 ft. lbs. of energy at 50 yards, and 681 ft. lbs. at 75 yards.

So, at 75 yards you get 20% more energy delivered on the animal with a .58.

The difference between a .54 and .58 probably wouldn't make a lick of difference on a whitetail. But it seems to me that extra energy would be a mighty good thing on a moose.

Bronko, I belive its Lobo, over on my forum that shot a moose with either a 58 or 62cal. He may be able to give you some pointers.

Since you have a .58 I'd use it!

One thing I didn't mention that I should have. Avoid the shoulder period. Lung shots or a tuck and tickle quartering away shot in the pocket. Getting through the ribs to the lungs doesn't take a whole heck of a lotta juice. Getting through the thick hide, muscle, and bone of a Moose shoulder is by far another story. Be as wary of your shot choices as you were when you were Bear hunting last fall and you will be fine.

I am partial to the .58 and that's why i own 2 a 1:70 and a 1:48 twist. Both are Hawken styled rifles. Honestly I don't put to much thought of ballistics in muzzleloading. It seems to me that a heavy projectile is what gets the job done. Being that drawing a ME moose tag is a once in a lifetime opportunity; I would go with the rifle that is most comfortable and accurate and place your shot. I believe both the .54 and the .58 are adequate enough to tackle the job. Moose are not all that difficult to kill.

I know. I shot a bull back in 2014 with my '06. I will have that along as a back up just in case.

Had a 58 Green Mountain for about 10 years. Had a few 54s too in T/C / Pedersoli barrels. I could always workup a beefier load using the 58 and shoot it just as accurately as the 54s.

58 would be my suggestion for use. A 280 gr. roundball will do the job..... just avoid head-on's with shoulders. Try to obtain a work-up load using a wad behind the patch. You don't want any wasted ignition. You want every ounce of energy behind that ball.

If the wad doesn't help / maintain accuracy, discard the trial range-work using it.

My .58 is a tack driver already. Not sure if the wad will help in that dept. But it might just give me a little more velocity. I'll have to run some through the chrono with and without the wad and see if there is much difference.
Not sure if there will be because the .575" ball and .018" patch is a pretty snug fit.

I wouldn't lose sleep over trying to gain a little more velocity Bronko. Even a large gain of 100 f.p.s. will yield only a modest gain in down range energy.

What load are you shooting now? The link in your post yesterday at 12:50 PM brings me to the calculator page, but does not show your data.

Ran the numbers and posted earlier in this thread. I think I'm getting something like 599 ftlb at 100 yards.

I was wondering what your powder charge/velocity was?

not sure of the velocity as I pulled the data off the T/C site for velocity (1456)
I am currently using 100 gr of FFg but may jump up to 120 gr. or possibly even switch to FFFg.

Is that with black powder?

I don't have chronograph results for 100 grains of FFg in my .58 GM barrel. But I do have the following data with 85, 95, 105, 115 grain loads of GOEX.



So let's assume you're getting 1400 fps with your load of 100 grains FFg, and switching to a 120 grain load of FFFg will bump you velocity all the way up to 1600 fps. (Although it probably won't go quite that high.)

This is what the down range energy will look like with each load.

..................______Ft. Lbs. of Energy_________
Velocity.......50 yards.....75 yards.....100 yards

1400 fps.........741............636.............554
1600 fps.........881............718.............620

So yes, you get a bump in energy. But it takes a lot of powder (and recoil) to get there. And I doubt the Moose will know the difference.

that is help full. I target shoot my GMB with 90, but hunt with 110 grains of 2f powder. I always wondered what kind of speed I was getting out of that rifle.

Thanks Semi.. I'm going to confirm your numbers later this year when I start shooting again. I'll dig the chrony out and see what I get.

sh54...

I can somewhat agree on that. Having been to Maine for a visit while my son lived in the mid-coast region, I saw how dense some of the terrain can be in and around their streams and lakes. It was late May and all we did was trout fish but some of that area was very dense.

That said, A friend and his Dad drew a moose tag some years ago (2 persons on a permit) and their guide had them hunting clear cuts and I believe the one he shot was somewhere in the 150-180 yard range if I remember right. He shot it with a Colt-Sauer chambered for300 Weatherby?

So I would definitely bring along a decent .30 cal rifle in case the guide can't put me on Moose in a comfortable enough range for a .58 ML. I never did like the taste of "tag soup", especially if it costs a pile of $$. But, it's bronko's hunt, not mine.

BPS

You fellows are wasting your time trying to compare energy of modern projectiles and a round ball, load up and go hunting, either one will do the job with a double lung shot...

Hawkeye - that's exactly why I posted that "so much for ballistics - huh?" in an earlier thread.

But Hawkeye, don't you understand?........We live for the opportunity to waste our time on stuff like that. :D

If this were not a traditional muzzleloading forum I might be asking which bullet should I use in my .22 Hornet reloads for Moose? I usually use 35 grain Hornady V-Max and they are very accurate. Should I give up a little accuracy and move up the the 40 grain V-Max for more energy? :s2:

I think a lot of bronko's choice of weapon is gonna depend on what his guide has to say about what he can expect for a shot, providing he draws a tag and chooses to hire an outfitter/guide. I know if I was lucky enough to draw a tag and planned on spending a fair bit of $$, I would source out a very reputable guide that could put me within ML range of a Moose if that's what I exclusively chose to use. But if I were to just go up there and "wing it" by checking the counties that have the highest Moose concentrations and relying on "lady luck"... I would bring along a CF rifle.

I would love to take a Moose with a black powder rifle, but we live in a real world where your dreams very seldom come true. It's not like walking out into familiar woods and picking a choice spot you can expect to see deer travel through.

Not to mention that outfitters/guides many times have access to private tracts of land that the average Joe can't hunt. Just my $.02

BPS

I am going with an outfitter if I draw. But the guide is the son of one of my friends who has been guiding with this outfitter for several years. He told me if I draw he would just about guarantee me a 50" or better bull. I can always carry my '06 on my shoulder in case I can't get close enough to a once in a lifetime bull.

Bronko...

Sounds like you have a good plan Bud. I would shoulder both rifles and use what you choose when the time comes.

BPS

Yeah Bronko, that sounds like a plan for sure. I hope you get drawn so we can all wait in anticipation for the hunt.

I really want to bust something with that .58. I didn't get a chance at a deer this season and I passed on a smallish bear (earlier post). I bet that big ball smacking the sides of a decent bull moose will make a pretty audible thud! It would be nice to get drawn in the September season. I think they are in rut then and can call one into ML range.

I hope he gets drawn too Semi...

That way, (if he scores) I can wait in anticipation to share in a Moose steak when he and I get together at his camp to shoot this summer!

Medium rare if you will bronko... :happy0001:

BPS

100% agreed BPS hence why I said a rare thing to get over a 75 yard shot. I've never been lucky enough to draw a Maine tag for Moose but I have hunted whitetail in several areas of Maine many times and come upon Moose dang near every single time out. Talk about a trigger finger going into epileptic fits!!!!! One part of my brain (you know the devil and angel on each shoulder) saying "well you have "deer" tags and it IS in the deer family" :D Last time I hunted Maine I counted 12 Moose roadside driving in!!! Finding them and getting in range really isn't that hard in most areas, it's getting a dang tag thats hard!

Moose don't fear man. It's not hard to get close to them. Worry more about them charging you then getting close.

Where do you get that idea from? Maybe true in extremely remote areas but not in areas where they have been hunted. One whiff of human scent and they are gone.
Now a large bulls in rut have been known to charge. But that isn't the norm.

I worked a gold claim in Alaska for 5 years. We fought off the grizzly's and ate the moose. I have experience with moose and they were easy to get close to.

We also have moose in Colorado, and i've never seen one run away. They stand their ground, or start to come at you. Even the cows.

Did this bull run away? It sure saw and heard the hunters. I'm sure I could find a cow doing the same thing. It's not the rut. moose will do this all year long.

I just found this. It's a perfect example of their lack of fear of man. This guy is really stupid and could have been hurt bad or killed.

Ive watched that one game warden show and up in maine, their moose run! just all depends on the pressure.

No one was hunting deer in our camping area within 5 miles and the deer would just stand and watch you drive by.

Want me to show a Maine hunt with the moose just standing there close and then being shot?

Did the moose run in the above videos?

There's a brother and sister moose in MB Jon. I'm guessing to didn't run into them when you were there. You'd be agreeing with me if you did. They charge me everytime I see them. I'd much prefer to run into a bear.

oh no doubt they will charge you. They are highly known to charge. I think i was a outdoor hunt with ted nugent in alaska and he had his bow. A moose charged and when it got less than 10 feet away, he let the arrow fly and took it right into the heart.

I saw that. Scared the crap out of him. :)