soarkrebel

Oh i just posted this on another thread about this and just had to paste it over here!

Them danged old hybrid whatever bows just about WIPED out the population in Arkansas huh???

Geez GET OVER IT !!!!!!!!!

LBR

Well stated Arthur--I'm glad we have someone who was actually there and experienced the transition to give the facts.

A crossbow is not a bow. A bow is hand drawn and hand held (and, IMO, hand released, but that's a whole different argument). Just because a weapon uses something that resembles an arrow as a projectile doesn't make it a bow. There are conversion kits to make a Ruger 10/.22 into an "arrow gun".

As for the Alabama fiasco, the people were not heard--they were ignored. One of the boardmembers who was in on the decision has a huge conflict of interests and should have never been allowed on the board, much less into the decision making process. The decision was based on money, period.

It hasn't come down to conservation, what's best for the animals, getting more hunters in the woods, or the voice of the people--it's all about money. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong--show me where there have been any studies to show any benefits to allowing crossbows into the archery season.

I'm not against disabled and/or elderly hunters using crossbows in the archery season, because of the low numbers. I have an uncle who has to use one to hunt in archery season, along with my best friend's father. However, if it was an all or none proposition, I'd vote none.

You might say "that's not fair, and you are just being selfish and discriminating". Well, the way I look at it, there are some hunts I will never be able to go on, for two main reasons.

One, I have a really screwed up ankle and there is no way I could hike back into the wilderness a few miles, or climb a mountain, much less pack an animal out of these places. I don't hear anyone calling for chair lifts or special ATV permits for folks like myself, nor do I want them to. I understand and accept the fact that sometimes life just isn't fair.

The other is I don't have the cash for guides, permits, etc. that are required for non-residents EVEN ON FEDERAL LAND. I pay taxes on this land just like the residents do, so why should I be required to have a guide and have to pay so much more for a license? Where's the outcry and rage about this discrimination?

I'm not a "trad snob", but I do believe the season was labled "primitive weapon" for a reason. I don't hunt with a muzzleloader, but it made me sick when MS legalized scopes for muzzleloaders. Primitive my eye. As was stated already, it's no longer about the challenge, it's not about having to put any effort into becoming proficient with your equipment and learning about the woods you hunt in--our society is all about cash and instant gratification--our hunting seasons have been prostituted like pretty much everything else.

The camel got his nose in the tent--pretty soon the rest will follow. Unfortunately by the time those of you who are "pro" realize what's going on, it will be too late. We may gain numbers now, but in the long run the way the general public views us will suffer, as will our sport, which will more than likely cause it's demise in time.

Chad

soarkrebel

I think it is coming down to conservation . deer numbers in some states are exploding and yep more need to be taken for the good of the animals.

And just who's getting the money??

You show me where it doesnt benefit having crossbows in the archery season!

Sir John Hawkwood

I guess I will go against the grain and agree with Kevin. I've seen arbalesters who used medieval style crossbows, without sights, and to be honest, I can't really see how crossbows can be compared to guns in terms of efficiency. Modern Crossbows are probably very accurate, but as accurate as a rifle? Crossbows seem to have the same range of technology that bows have; some are very modern and some are very archaic.
I also think that any tool takes skill, whether it's a bow, a crossbow, or a compound. I think it's okay to take a stand for archery, but let's not cross the line and start insulting those who chose to hunt with crossbows. I shoot a longbow because I like the looks, the feel, the emotional attachment. To say that everyone who shoots a compound bow, crossbow, or rifle only does so, because it is easier, just seems a little off to me.

Here, in Iowa, we have a massive over-population of deer. I don't really see how adding crossbows is going to damage the environmnet or even the number of deer an archer is able to bag. I guess I just don't get what the big deal is. Maybe it depends on locality or something?

soarkrebel

SIR JOHN it is nice to see someone with good head on thier shoulders and can write too!!!!!

DARN GOOD post!!!!!

LBR

If it had anything to do with conservation, seasons could be extended, bag limits could be adjusted, etc. Who's getting the money? That's easy--the crossbow manufacturers--the fellow in AL I mentioned earlier has some very close ties and stood to gain a lot by pushing it through.

I asked first--lol. Arthur covered it well, but here's a few more things to consider. Just how much skill does it take to fire a crossbow? Do you have to learn anything at all about the animals, or even basic shooting skills to fire one? Do you have to overcome the rush and nervousness that beginners (and often seasoned hunters) feel in order to have the strength to pull the trigger?

I've only fired a crossbow a few times, on two separate occasions. It was entertaining, but I can see myself getting bored with it quick, because it's so easy. Put the sight on the target, pull the trigger. It's not even like a firearm, where I can choose targets that challenge me and test my skill because the bolts cost a lot more than shells and I wouldn't be nearly as apt to attempt shots just for the sake of shooting.

Crossbow shooters are not the people that gave the blood, sweat, tears, and time to get an archery season established. They have nothing to offer, other than filling pockets that are already overflowing. Crossbows are not bows. Crossbows require practically no skill, experience, or practice to be shot with at least some degree of accuracy. Rank beginners can hit the woods and if they are lucky enough to see an animal, they can fling a bolt at it with reasonable confidence they will at least hit it. Prove me wrong on any of these counts.

I had practically no help when I started bowhunting. Nobody in my immediate family bowhunted, and I didn't know anyone at the time that did. It took time for me to become proficient and confident enough (shooting an old compound with fingers) to hit the woods, and during that time I learned all I could about the sport. If I'd been in a situation where I could have just gone out and bought a crossbow, I would have--I didn't have anyone to tell me any differently or guide me. I am so glad now that wasn't the case.

Chad

Arthur P

kevin, next time you ask, "Spare me the emotional outbursts...", please be kind enough to reciprocate. I gave you clear and concise reasons for my opinion. I don't expect you to agree with it, but I DO expect at least a mimimal level of respect.

Frankly, if someone doesn't want to use a bow and arrow for hunting, that's their call and it's fine with me. BOWhunting is not for everybody. On the other hand, they have no business wanting to hunt in archery season if they don't want to hunt with a bow. If crossbows are allowed, what's next? Spear guns? That special barrel for shooting arrows made to fit the Ruger 10/22? Shotguns? Muzzleloaders? If bowhunters won't defend their own season, nobody else will.

Our forebears worked hard to get bow seasons established, so people could hunt strictly with the bow and arrow. It would be the ultimate insult to their memory to allow the season to become a free-for-all. No matter how politically correct and tolerant the outsiders want us to be, we simply must not just cave in and let them have their way without putting up one heckuva fight.

I'm just one guy with my own opinion and I hope to goodness I'm not alone.

arrowsmit

You're not alone in your sentiments Arthur, not even close. But it seems like we're rarely heard over the sound of the big money machine. As bowhunters we simply don't have the amount of resources to make that much noise. The Ky game comission sure didn't listen to it's bowhunters...they must've been deafened by the machine.

In most states game populations are extremely high right now, but it won't always be this way. Game populations are cyclic & I can guess what'll happen when they take the inevideable downturn. Crossbows have now been introduced into archery season, & this will inherently increase harvest numbers. So now when the time comes to shorten seasons (& the time WILL come) the extra weight of crossbow harvests will pull us down & we'll all sink together. In effect we will have lost much of our bowseason. Collateral damage of the voracious appetite of the roaring big money machine. It won't matter one bit to them tho, they know it's coming & will have made every dime possible by then.

It amazes me how pro-crossbow ppl appear out of thin air anytime the subject comes up. I also can't believe how any other bowhunter wouldn't have a problem w/sharing our season with the arrow gunners.

Lastly, if we honestly compare crossbows to archery tackle (even modern compound bows), then surely we must all agree that they are much much more different than alike?

They don't belong in archery only seasons...but they are coming.

T/C fan!

I've already posted my take on this under this topic and another, but for the record, I have absolutely no problem with those that choose to hunt with a crossbow OR for those that have disabilites that give them the right to use them throughout the bowseason. But, for those that use a crossbow without a special permit, its not like they didn't already have a season where they could use a crossbow. Unlike the most of you, I live in Ky and have a pretty good idea what will happen when many so-called hunters get wind of this. We have a major problem with folks that are in the "if its brown, its down" society. They're always looking for another "easy" way to take some meat and with that attitude, it'll not only effect the herd around here, but it'll also fill up the woods with hunters where I and others try to keep a management process going. Call me selfish? Well, I can deal with that and thats YOUR .02.

soarkrebel

LBR come on and the "other archery" folks aren't out for the money. a friend of mine is a bowtech dealer and honestly they are very nice bows but when i found out how much they were i about fell out! and look at all the accessorys! i still hunt with my old jennings carbon extreme even though some say man thats old !
It's all about money no matter what the weapon or even land issues.

Actually it's not as easy as some make out. this year my son wanted to take my horton hunter supreme and in the end he didnt because i had a accuracy problem. it's solved but you still must be aware of distance. yeah in time i will get him a bow but not until he slows down on his growing.

Now brother this statement really can get my blood going. now i hunt with a variety of weapons including a crossbow and yep a bow. i prefer gun but it doesnt matter.
but this thought that a bowhunter is a better hunter or spends more time in the woods is pure dog feces!
I would bet i spend more time than 98% of the folks on here in the woods . i hate putting folks into catagorys based on what they hunt with or assuming because someone hunts with something automatically makes them something they are not!
I know some that hunt with bows that i would not even think about on my club. why?
i have found their animals they wounded and didnt recover in the past. i got mad and gave them the boot!
Now do i condemn people that hunt with bows ? no i would be slapping myself.

But as to the hunting with a crossbow during "archery season" i agree!
It does take skill and is not as easy as people think.
My solution to this is just to say there are two seasons bow and crossbow that run the same amount of time and dates!

Really i have 2100 acres that is all private now if i am hunting during a "archery " season with a crossbow who does it hurt?
Nobody on here cause nobody on here can be on my preserve!

I just think some folks are so ate up with themselves prefering a traditional bow that they are blind to others!

I think there are MUCH bigger issues threatening hunting than the use of crossbows.
Hey think IF it does get more people into the woods then the hunting community as a whole is MUCH stronger! it is hard to fight a army of hunters no matter what they carry!

But hey we can fight about this stupid issue and someday find ourselves discussing what happened ? how did they get the ban on hunting?