forkhorn04

I am considering investing some money into a black widow takedown bow. Is there much difference in longbow and recurve, at least for shooting them? Also is there a better brand than black widow, or are they about the best?

Thanks a lot

LBR

Man, if that ain't a loaded question!

There can be a lot of difference in the way a recurve feels vs. a longbow, and there are some that feel very similar (clear as mud huh?). I haven't shot the newest BW longbow, but I can say the old one felt nothing at all like their recurves, and from what I've heard from people I know the new one doesn't either. Just the mass weight difference in the two will give them a different feel. I haven't heard anyone that owns one of the new longbows, including those that are happy with them, confirm what is said in the catalog about them shooting just like the recurves.

Whether BW bows are the "best" or not depends on who you ask. Best warranty? no Fastest? no (fastest doesn't mean best either though) Best customer service? depends on who you ask--have heard that it's great, have heard it's not so great. Best value? Not in my opinion--you pay for a lot of advertising when you buy a BW bow, and a lot for a name. I don't mean that as a slam toward BW, it's just a fact--the materials required to build a BW bow are pretty much the same as any other with the same woods. Labor time should be about the same, or even less since they have a CNC now. Similar to buying a pair of "designer" jeans--that little tag costs a lot.

They make a solid recurve that shoots good, but it's not my favorite. I've had two, didn't keep either one. Before I put that much money in a bow, I'd take some time to shoot a lot of different bows, research the ones you like, and go from there.

There is no one "best" for everyone--what I like you might hate, and vice-versa.

Chad

forkhorn04

Sorry about not being very clear, what I meant by "best" would be smooth shooting, and a reliable bow. I know some bows will have the limbs turn and such. I can't find a source where I could test out differant bows, could you recommend a place?

Thanks for the help and sorry about the loaded question

vaporbowhunter

The difference between a longbow and a recurve. The only thing that i have noticed is that a longbow is quieter than a recurve. Compairing is a fred bear super kodiak and my uncles longbow cant remember what he has. I think the company was something like Americana i think im not for sure.

Black widow makes a quality bow. As for my experience with black widow, i dont own one because they are far to expensive for a 16yr old but i have a cousin and a uncle that both have a SA in grayback. Just a older version of the PSA. They are both extremely smooth. Accuracy depends mostly on the shooter and how comfortable you are with the bow. One thing i like about BW is that your hand is extremely close to the arrow shelf. To me just give you a better feel where the arrow is going.

I agree with LBR in saying that for what you have to pay for them its probably not worth it. But same with any other recurve. They all are over priced. All It is wood and fiberglass. It all depends on you personal opinion on what you look for in a bow and what you are willing to pay.

LBR

No problem on the question--I was just messing with you. Black Widow is one name that can get a lot of debate fired up quick though[8D].

They do draw smoothly, and properly tuned the recurves have little handshock--especially the take-downs, with the massive riser that absorbs it well. The "old" longbow rattled my teeth with handshock--at least both of the ones I shot did. I haven't shot the new one yet, but have heard it hasn't changed much in that department.

Any recurve can get the limbs twisted by improper stringing or storage. The narrower limbs on the BW recurves are a bit more susceptable to that, as well as any recurve with a narrower limb design. I've never seen or even heard of a limb getting twisted on a longbow.

The differences in longbows and recurves vary depending on the design. There are recurves with longbow grips, longbows with recurve grips, and "hybrid" longbows that, to me, shoot and feel very much like a recurve. There are some very light mass weight recurves, and some take-down longbows that weigh as much as most any recurve. Some recurves have a lot of handshock, some longbows have practically none, and vice-versa.

Generally speaking, a longbow is quieter, lighter, slower, and will have more felt handshock than a recurve. Most recurves are built with the shelf cut out past center, which makes them more forgiving of arrow spine. Often a longbow will be more forgiving of mistakes in your form. Those are just general statements though--there are both types that break the rules.

The best place to try out a lot of different bows is at a big all-traditional shoot. You will find lots of vendors that are happy to let you try out the bows, and usually lots of shooters that will let you try their bows as well. Black Widow has a "try before you buy" program that will let you try out one of their bows without spending a lot of money. However, any of these is just a starting point to get an idea--I can usually tell with a few shots if I really DON"T like a bow, but it takes more than a couple dozen arrows for me to decide if I really DO like it. Most of the time a bow is just average to me. I don't know of any big shoots going on this time of year, but in the summer months there's quite a few big ones in different parts of the U.S. If you need help finding one, just holler.

Vapor, I agree on most bows, but there are still some that give you just what you pay for. By that I mean you pay a reasonable price for a quality bow, without having to cover all those other expenses that have absolutely no effect on how your bow shoots. Of course they have to make a living, which means they have to profit from the business, but there is a big difference (to me anyway) in paying 1/2 the price and getting just as much or more bow. Some bowyers and companies let their reputation do the talking, without adding the expense of advertising and catalogs. Others put out for those expenses, and it reflects in their prices, but it also sells a lot of bows. Obviously both methods work--I reckon BW stays busy year round, and I know of others who don't advertise who are also busy year-round. There's a niche to fill on both sides of the market.

Chad

Longbow Bowhunter

I started shooting a recurve when I got into traditional, and the first time I shot a longbow, I sold my recurves. But I can't really tell you why, both were smooth, no hand shock. but the way the longbow shot is what got me. I know for the price of a black widow, get a couple chek-mates one of each Just kidding. I have looked at black widow but there prices are beyond me.

Troy n Oh

WOW that is a handfull of a question LOL. I have had alot of each and I really prefer to shoot a longbow. They just feel better to me. As far as widow goes I am one of the folks who will say I have owned four and I don't own any of them anymore nor will ever own another. In the world of bows the saying you get what you pay for really doesn't apply. You really need to shoot a bunch to see what you like before making a 1k investment. Kalamazoo is coming up soon aint it guys?

forkhorn04

I greatly appreciate all of the help, but are there any specific brands that make high quality bows, or is it just some bows shoot well and others don't. I know it is pretty much based on personal preferance, but I kind of need a starting point.

As for the shoots, are there many in Iowa, and if so, where can I find a schedule?

Again, thank you all for the help

arrowsmit

Try not to allow price to be a factor in your final choice of bow. No matter if it's a less expensive or a higher end model, shoot what you like, what shoots best for you, & what just plain makes you feel good. PERIOD.

Settling for a bow that you're not 100% happy with may take away from your enjoyment of the sport, & even the most expensive of bows will cost you scant pennies a day thru-out a lifetime of shooting pleasure & satisfaction. Ultimately it's your decision.

LBR

How long have you been shooting? Long enough to get an idea of what type bows you like, or are you just getting into the sport?

There are lots of very well made bows, covering the price spectrum from one end to the other. There are also some pretty crappy ones thrown in for good measure. Then there are those that are well made, but are crappy to some individuals because of how they shoot.

Opinions run rampant in traditional archery--"you can kick my dog, run off with my wife, crash my truck, cuss my momma, but you better not talk bad about my bow!" [8D] Some of us take it like a personal insult if a less than positive review is given on their favorite brand. I've been guilty of it myself, from both sides of the fence. We have to keep in mind they are just opinions, and won't cost anybody one dime or a drop of blood.

Nobody can tell you what bow will work best for you, we can just give our opinions on what we like, and the reasons for it. There are some things you can consider though, regardless of opinion:

Reputation--some guys make a great bow, but are known to purposely be months off the given wait time, not answer e-mails, not return phone calls, etc. Too many great bows on the market to deal with that. There are also dealers (some bowyers and companies don't have time to deal directly with the public and get the work done) that may be carrying a brand that they don't have a clue about, or a store may have employees that don't know a thing about traditional bows. I've heard about different weight limbs being put on a take-down (for example, a 55# top limb and a 50# bottom limb), limbs taken off one riser and put on another to "make" a bow for a customer, etc. I'd avoid those.

Service--Ask a LOT of questions, and consider the answers. Do you get a detailed, honest answer or just get brushed off? Do you have to wait a week or two to get an answer? Ask for references--see what other customers have to say about the bows and the service.

Warranty--See what kind of warranty you get. Look for a "catch"--for instance, some warranties will be void under certain conditions, pro-rated warranties usually sound good until you do the math, etc. Ask the bowyer or dealer how flexible they are with their warranties. Some are void if the bow changes hands, even if you trade it off the day after you get it. Some may cover your bow long after the "official" warranty is up, or if it changes hands--that will help the resale.

Longevity--I know that up-and-coming bowyers got to start somewhere, but there are several that just can't make a go of it and are out of business in a short time. A lifetime warranty is worthless if the bowyer or business is gone.

Price--If you have the money, more power to you, but it is a big consideration to a lot of us. I agree that a bow can be an investment, and if you keep it for a long time it amounts to pennies a day, BUT....you don't get to pay for it with pennies a day--you got to have the cash up front. Many of us swap bows as often as we swap underwear--I've been guilty of it, but am pretty much cured of it now. Some folks never seem to stick with the same bow, and most all of us have been through a trading phase. That is something to consider when buying new--when you sell, you won't get near the full price back for it. Unless you know what you want and know you will keep it, $800-$1,000 dollars is a lot of money. Shoot, that's a lot of money period.

What you really want--If you have your heart, mind, and soul set on a particular brand, most likely you will never be satisfied until you get one. I know an excellent archer or two that I am positive could shoot any bow they put their hands on well, but have a mental block and are convinced they can only shoot their chosen brand. It's not uncommon either--archery is probably 90% mental. What I'm getting at here is if you have already decided that "Brand X" is going to be the best bow for you, then most likely it will be, regardless, because you have already convinced yourself of it. In that situation, you'd just as well bite the bullet and get it. Might be a hard bought lesson, or it might work out best in the long run.

Like Troy said, bows are often the exception to the "you get what you pay for" rule. You can pay a lot for a crappy bow, you can pay a little for a very good one. Very often what determines if a bow is a good one or a bad one depends on whose hands it's in.

I don't know of any big shoots in Iowa off-hand, but I'd definately try to shoot a lot of different bows before investing a lot of money, unless you just have the money to buy a lot of new ones and just keep the one you like best. You might start out with a good used bow--you can usually pick these up for a lot less than a new one. Most of the above applies when looking at used--the dealer or bowyer should be willing to answer your questions on their bows, even if you aren't buying a new one from them.

Hope this helps--sorry I don't have a better answer.

Chad