Knowledge competition for new guy.
02-12-2004, 12:13 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: aloha or USA
Posts: 422
Knowledge competition for new guy.
So I am taking up this traditional archery thing and know nothing about it. So all of you old timers now have the chance of telling me everything you know on the topic. Here are a few questions and anything else you want to throw in there would be greatly appreciated. Also I am the kind of guy who likes to know why you do something rather then just do something because I am told it needs to be done. I hate doing something when I don't know what the purpose is.
1.) Do you unstring it or not? How often and Why?
2.) Why can't you use certain strings on an older bow? Like the Dyna Flight 97 or whatever it is called? Isn't a string a string?
3.) What is the difference between 3 and 4 feathers? What about broadheads? Will it affect the arrows flight if you use a wrong combination of head and feather?
4.) Do you pratice with broadheads or use field tips? If you use field tips how do you get the weight up to 8 grains/lb?
5.) And tell me EVERYTHING!!
1.) Do you unstring it or not? How often and Why?
2.) Why can't you use certain strings on an older bow? Like the Dyna Flight 97 or whatever it is called? Isn't a string a string?
3.) What is the difference between 3 and 4 feathers? What about broadheads? Will it affect the arrows flight if you use a wrong combination of head and feather?
4.) Do you pratice with broadheads or use field tips? If you use field tips how do you get the weight up to 8 grains/lb?
5.) And tell me EVERYTHING!!
02-12-2004, 12:38 AM
#2
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 373
RE: Knowledge competition for new guy.
OK definatley not one of the ol timers and not even close to knowing half of it yet but heres my .02 on your questions. I unstring my bows when I am not shooting them. I unstring for the simple reason that with a bowstringer it is hard to damage your limbs in the stringing or unstringing process and they fit in my bow rack better unstrung lol. The newer string material such as dyna flight and fast flite will cut the tip off of older bows that are not designed for its use. The older string material such as b 50 has a little strech to it with every shot kinda like a shock absorber while the new string material such as dyna 97 have next to no give much more like a wire. The choice between 3 and 4 feathers is just a personal preference. You can get better arrow flight from a poorly tuned bow with 4 feathers just because with more feather surface the arrow will stabilize faster but if your setup is tuned properly it is just an asthetic choice. I always practice with field tips for my general shooting. The 8 grns per pound thing is total arrow weight. I shoot gold tip carbons and weight the front up fairly heavy. I shoot 65# and my arrows are right at 625 grn with a 125 head. I would highly recomend become the arrow by byron ferguson for a must read for a new traditional archer or instinctive shooting by G Fred Asbell. Both books are pretty informative and between the two cover almost everything pretty in depth. Just my .02 I am sure you have more opinions coming
02-12-2004, 06:04 AM
#4
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: N. Illinois
Posts: 81
RE: Knowledge competition for new guy.
LOL Troy, I'm a wind bag too. 
Here goes...
1) I unstring mine most of the time. During November it's strung all the time, since I hunt nearly every day, don't like string-unstringing that often. There has been no evidence that leaving a laminated bow strung for long periods of time will harm it in any way (most any bowyer will tell you the same). You must be very careful when stringing any bow, make sure string is in the grooves before letting down on the stringer. Stringing miscues have been the death (twist) of many limbs, I'm sure.
2) The Fast Flight, Dyna, 450+ materials do not stretch like Dacron. The older bows' limb tips were not designed to handle the shock delivered by the FF type materials. Troy described it well.
3) Feather selection is mostly subjective, except I've heard the banana cuts can be noisier than the others. Same with 3 or 4 fletch, not much difference. Have always obtained good arrow flight with 3, why should I use 4? Broadheads are a personal choice also. As long as they are sharp and have a cut on contact design, all is good. I prefer to use 2-blade Zwickeys, doesn't matter how they are oriented... no flight problems as long as arrow is spinning good (helical fletch works for me).
4) I use field tips for practice. The difference between them and broadheads are negligible, for me at least. You can use a heavier point to add weight, but you have to understand how that extra weight up front affects the spine of the arrow. The grain/lb question is raised quite often. Some like to hunt with a real heavy arrow, others stay down in the 8-9 grain range. I do know this, if using a lighter arrow you will need to work harder in making the bow quiet, as it does not absorb energy as much as a heavier one. This question leads into the overall tuning of a bow. Arrow shafts... carbon, aluminum, or wood. Whatever the choice, they all have there own ups & downs. But one thing is constant... the spine of the arrow and choosing the correct setup that shoots best out of your bow. I could attempt to go into this in great depth, but I'll regress and suggest the Search function, lots of good reading. My own personal choice of hunting arrows is around 10 gr. / lb. at my draw weight and I use cedars exclusively, just what I prefer. I use a 50# bow @ 28" draw, 500-525 gr. cedars with 125 gr. up front.
About books & videos... Troy has recommended a few good reads, but try be somewhat open-minded and don't take any of them as the gospel of traditional archery. Glean from them as you choose and use the info as what works best for YOU.
Tell you EVERYTHING? hehe LOL... when it comes to finding out what shooting style and what arrows work best for you and your bow... that's up to you and when all the fun begins!
Here goes...
1) I unstring mine most of the time. During November it's strung all the time, since I hunt nearly every day, don't like string-unstringing that often. There has been no evidence that leaving a laminated bow strung for long periods of time will harm it in any way (most any bowyer will tell you the same). You must be very careful when stringing any bow, make sure string is in the grooves before letting down on the stringer. Stringing miscues have been the death (twist) of many limbs, I'm sure.
2) The Fast Flight, Dyna, 450+ materials do not stretch like Dacron. The older bows' limb tips were not designed to handle the shock delivered by the FF type materials. Troy described it well.
3) Feather selection is mostly subjective, except I've heard the banana cuts can be noisier than the others. Same with 3 or 4 fletch, not much difference. Have always obtained good arrow flight with 3, why should I use 4? Broadheads are a personal choice also. As long as they are sharp and have a cut on contact design, all is good. I prefer to use 2-blade Zwickeys, doesn't matter how they are oriented... no flight problems as long as arrow is spinning good (helical fletch works for me).
4) I use field tips for practice. The difference between them and broadheads are negligible, for me at least. You can use a heavier point to add weight, but you have to understand how that extra weight up front affects the spine of the arrow. The grain/lb question is raised quite often. Some like to hunt with a real heavy arrow, others stay down in the 8-9 grain range. I do know this, if using a lighter arrow you will need to work harder in making the bow quiet, as it does not absorb energy as much as a heavier one. This question leads into the overall tuning of a bow. Arrow shafts... carbon, aluminum, or wood. Whatever the choice, they all have there own ups & downs. But one thing is constant... the spine of the arrow and choosing the correct setup that shoots best out of your bow. I could attempt to go into this in great depth, but I'll regress and suggest the Search function, lots of good reading. My own personal choice of hunting arrows is around 10 gr. / lb. at my draw weight and I use cedars exclusively, just what I prefer. I use a 50# bow @ 28" draw, 500-525 gr. cedars with 125 gr. up front.
About books & videos... Troy has recommended a few good reads, but try be somewhat open-minded and don't take any of them as the gospel of traditional archery. Glean from them as you choose and use the info as what works best for YOU.
Tell you EVERYTHING? hehe LOL... when it comes to finding out what shooting style and what arrows work best for you and your bow... that's up to you and when all the fun begins!
02-12-2004, 11:09 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ......
Posts: 3,643
RE: Knowledge competition for new guy.
1.) Do you unstring it or not? How often and Why?
Sometimes yes, other times, no. In my house I leave them strung if I'm going to shoot them in the afternoons even 2-3 times a week. if I am not going to shoot them, I unstring them (recurves and longbows)
2.) Why can't you use certain strings on an older bow? Like the Dyna Flight 97 or whatever it is called? Isn't a string a string?
I think it has to do with the limb tips.
3.) What is the difference between 3 and 4 feathers? What about broadheads? Will it affect the arrows flight if you use a wrong combination of head and feather?
I don't believe so, no. I've fletched arrows RW and LW both using the same RW jigs with no apparent affect on flight. Don't mix the feather though. See below comments on arrow tuning. You broadheads will most likely fly fine if your arrows are tuned to your bow.
4.) Do you pratice with broadheads or use field tips? If you use field tips how do you get the weight up to 8 grains/lb?
Both. My concern first and foremost is arrow flight. If I get that down, then my accuracy will also improve. Then I can worry about total arrow weight and FOC.
5.) And tell me EVERYTHING!!
Longbows/recurve are simple compared to a compound. Simple to shoot that is. Start with a full length bare shaft and shoot it with a 125 grain field point at a target. Watch the flight. If it flies nock right its too stiff, nock left too weak. Most likely you'll be nock left, so cut 1/2" off your shaft and shoot again and eventually you'll find a length that'll fly really straight and pretty from your bow (assuming your nock height and brace height is good)
From there fletch your shafts at that length arrow and go shoot and have fun. Consistancy is THE most important thing on your shooting as far as form. Even with great form you'll still have to have concentration though, and a great release. Without either of those 3 you'll not hit right where you want to. Ahhhhhh, but when all 3 DO come togehter, its a beautiful thing !
Have a lot of fun, buy some judo to stump shoot. I roam my neighborhood shooting pop cans and stuff.
Sometimes yes, other times, no. In my house I leave them strung if I'm going to shoot them in the afternoons even 2-3 times a week. if I am not going to shoot them, I unstring them (recurves and longbows)
2.) Why can't you use certain strings on an older bow? Like the Dyna Flight 97 or whatever it is called? Isn't a string a string?
I think it has to do with the limb tips.
3.) What is the difference between 3 and 4 feathers? What about broadheads? Will it affect the arrows flight if you use a wrong combination of head and feather?
I don't believe so, no. I've fletched arrows RW and LW both using the same RW jigs with no apparent affect on flight. Don't mix the feather though. See below comments on arrow tuning. You broadheads will most likely fly fine if your arrows are tuned to your bow.
4.) Do you pratice with broadheads or use field tips? If you use field tips how do you get the weight up to 8 grains/lb?
Both. My concern first and foremost is arrow flight. If I get that down, then my accuracy will also improve. Then I can worry about total arrow weight and FOC.
5.) And tell me EVERYTHING!!
Longbows/recurve are simple compared to a compound. Simple to shoot that is. Start with a full length bare shaft and shoot it with a 125 grain field point at a target. Watch the flight. If it flies nock right its too stiff, nock left too weak. Most likely you'll be nock left, so cut 1/2" off your shaft and shoot again and eventually you'll find a length that'll fly really straight and pretty from your bow (assuming your nock height and brace height is good)
From there fletch your shafts at that length arrow and go shoot and have fun. Consistancy is THE most important thing on your shooting as far as form. Even with great form you'll still have to have concentration though, and a great release. Without either of those 3 you'll not hit right where you want to. Ahhhhhh, but when all 3 DO come togehter, its a beautiful thing !
Have a lot of fun, buy some judo to stump shoot. I roam my neighborhood shooting pop cans and stuff.
02-12-2004, 09:30 PM
#6
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississippi USA
Posts: 15,296
RE: Knowledge competition for new guy.
Not much I can add, but here it goes.
1.) Do you unstring it or not? How often and Why?
Sometimes, mainly for convenience sake. I wouldn't travel with a strung recurve, because if it got hit just right it could knock the string off and damage a limb.
2.) Why can't you use certain strings on an older bow? Like the Dyna Flight 97 or whatever it is called? Isn't a string a string?
B-50/B-500 is polyester, or Dacron. It has much more stretch than the modern materials, such as Dynaflight '97 (Dyneema '75) or 450+ (Dyneema and Vectran). To give you an idea, have someone "saw" your finger with a piece of yarn, then with a piece of monofilament fishing line--get the picture? The new materials are harder/tougher, and can damage the limb tips if: (1) they are not reinforced with micarta, phenolic, etc. and (2) the string grooves have to be cut at a different angle. I have seen two old bow that had the limb tips literally sawn off by a Fast Flight string.
3.) What is the difference between 3 and 4 feathers? What about broadheads? Will it affect the arrows flight if you use a wrong combination of head and feather?
None that I can see--4" 4 fletch flew the same for me as 5" 3 fletch. Some folks have talked about certain heads not flying true for them, I've never had that problem. Perfect arrow flight is a must for hunting though--both for accuracy and penetration.
4.) Do you pratice with broadheads or use field tips? If you use field tips how do you get the weight up to 8 grains/lb?
Both--field points most of the time, but broadheads before hunting season. You can buy field points in different weights to match your broadheads.
5.) And tell me EVERYTHING!!
No can do--some things you just have to figure out for yourself. The main reason is what works great for you may not work at all for me, and vice-versa. Remember there is no one perfect shooting style for everyone, as there is no one bow that is perfect for everyone. Don't be afraid to experiment and take notes. As was already noted, consistency is the key. It's a constant learning process.
Lastly, keep in mind there is no magic bow. Shooting different bows is part of the fun, and swapping up if you can afford it, but finding a bow that fits you and sticking with it is what will make you a better shooter. By the one that fits you, I mean one that fits your hand properly, is comfortable, made for your draw length, etc.
Good luck!
Chad
1.) Do you unstring it or not? How often and Why?
Sometimes, mainly for convenience sake. I wouldn't travel with a strung recurve, because if it got hit just right it could knock the string off and damage a limb.
2.) Why can't you use certain strings on an older bow? Like the Dyna Flight 97 or whatever it is called? Isn't a string a string?
B-50/B-500 is polyester, or Dacron. It has much more stretch than the modern materials, such as Dynaflight '97 (Dyneema '75) or 450+ (Dyneema and Vectran). To give you an idea, have someone "saw" your finger with a piece of yarn, then with a piece of monofilament fishing line--get the picture? The new materials are harder/tougher, and can damage the limb tips if: (1) they are not reinforced with micarta, phenolic, etc. and (2) the string grooves have to be cut at a different angle. I have seen two old bow that had the limb tips literally sawn off by a Fast Flight string.
3.) What is the difference between 3 and 4 feathers? What about broadheads? Will it affect the arrows flight if you use a wrong combination of head and feather?
None that I can see--4" 4 fletch flew the same for me as 5" 3 fletch. Some folks have talked about certain heads not flying true for them, I've never had that problem. Perfect arrow flight is a must for hunting though--both for accuracy and penetration.
4.) Do you pratice with broadheads or use field tips? If you use field tips how do you get the weight up to 8 grains/lb?
Both--field points most of the time, but broadheads before hunting season. You can buy field points in different weights to match your broadheads.
5.) And tell me EVERYTHING!!
No can do--some things you just have to figure out for yourself. The main reason is what works great for you may not work at all for me, and vice-versa. Remember there is no one perfect shooting style for everyone, as there is no one bow that is perfect for everyone. Don't be afraid to experiment and take notes. As was already noted, consistency is the key. It's a constant learning process.
Lastly, keep in mind there is no magic bow. Shooting different bows is part of the fun, and swapping up if you can afford it, but finding a bow that fits you and sticking with it is what will make you a better shooter. By the one that fits you, I mean one that fits your hand properly, is comfortable, made for your draw length, etc.
Good luck!
Chad
02-13-2004, 11:10 AM
#9
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississippi USA
Posts: 15,296
RE: Knowledge competition for new guy.
Stealthy, I'm gonna' shoot an Adcock as soon as the opportunity comes--I figure I'll see one or two at some of the shoots I plan to attend this summer. I might even comment, but I know I can't give a fair evaluation on a bow that I have only shot a few times and may not fit me. Maybe one of these days someone that has one with specs close to mine will loan it to me for a couple of months? (yeah, right! lol) If you would bring your sorry self to some shoots I'll put yours through the ringer for you--need some shoot dates? I think you would love Twin Oaks, and it's not that awful far from you. Bring lots of arrows.....
PL, in my experience, I'd have to say price has nothing to do with the amount of "magic" in a bow. The most extreme case I have noted that proves this has to do with an old Bear "Black Bear" a guy I know owns. I can't remember if he paid $50 or $25 for it, or if it was given to him--but I did see him flat-out embarrass guys shooting very expensive bows with it, including at least one sponsered compound shooter. That bow also proved that how pretty a bow is doesn't have anything to do with how it shoots--that thing is butt-ugly! There was just no way to dress up that mint green glass on both sides of the limbs............He has since retired it, due to it's age--that bow has proved itself on the range and on several whitetails, and holds a lot of sentimental value to him. Now he's shooting a Falcon and Crusader [8D].
Chad
PL, in my experience, I'd have to say price has nothing to do with the amount of "magic" in a bow. The most extreme case I have noted that proves this has to do with an old Bear "Black Bear" a guy I know owns. I can't remember if he paid $50 or $25 for it, or if it was given to him--but I did see him flat-out embarrass guys shooting very expensive bows with it, including at least one sponsered compound shooter. That bow also proved that how pretty a bow is doesn't have anything to do with how it shoots--that thing is butt-ugly! There was just no way to dress up that mint green glass on both sides of the limbs............He has since retired it, due to it's age--that bow has proved itself on the range and on several whitetails, and holds a lot of sentimental value to him. Now he's shooting a Falcon and Crusader [8D].
Chad