Psylocide

Anyone experience this?

At 20 yards, if I take my time with each shot and rest a second or two in-between (takes a lot longer for compound guys to shoot 5 arrows), I get a pretty decent 5 arrow grouping with a spread of about 4-5".

However, If I nock and shoot as quickly as possible one after the other, I can basically drill the same spot over and over. 2-3" max, but really pile them in close.

I'm not sure if it's easier to make minute adjustments to the POI the quicker you fire them off or if I'm just taking a lot of the over-analyzing out of the aiming phase.

Anyway... not sure if anyone's tried this or not, but shooting all the arrows as quickly as I can ends up netting me better groupings as of right now.

LBR

That would be my guess. Rod Jenkins (and other top shooters and coaches) says that aiming is a tiny part of the shot process, and the "burning a hole" that you hear so often has been proven pretty much impossible. That level of focus, even by trained professionals, can only last a very short time--maybe a couple of seconds? I forget exactly...but if you start out with focusing on a spot, you will burn yourself out. The faster shot sequence may be how you avoid that, and get a better group.

SAMMO

Excellent advice by LBR! I'd be careful not to get into shooting too fast. Do not want to discourage you in anyway by saying this and hope you are not snap shooting.
Try to break your shot up into segments and make sure each one is done correctly.
Aiming should only come when it is time to aim in the sequence.
I will post more on this process if you would like? I do not want to preach to anyone!

dsotm223

My guess would be that when your shooting faster its using more of your instinct to hit the same spot than actually aiming for it, I've read in a lot of places that truly instinctual shooting as the most accurate way to shoot.

Nomercy448

How many pins per week are you shooting?

The longer you look at a target with pins in it, the more you shoot at your pins instead of the target, and the worse you shoot.

The longer your hold your draw, especially with imperfect form, the worse you will shoot.

The longer you sight through your peep, the more your eye fatigues, the worse you will shoot.

It's also fairly common that guys will raise their bow and anchor point the same, but their subsequent shifting will be more erratic.

It's really common what you're experiencing. Ultimately, the draw hold is usually what gets guys, seconded by looking at your pins.

Shooting one arrow at one spot helps with that a bit. Doesn't give you anything to distract your eye.

SAMMO

First it is important to understand the different aiming methods for barebow. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1775877

Psylocide

LBR - That was my thought, if the first shot of the sequence is "on," it's so much easier to bury more arrows in that same spot in quick succession because the "feel" of that first shot is easier to replicate.

If I get to aiming for that spot for any significant amount of time (a few seconds), then I begin to waver/second guess and possibly throw off my form in doing so. Fast shooting feels more intuitive and the "feel" of the last shot is still fresh when I'm shooting the next.

NoMercy - I only shoot traditional now, no pins/peeps here.


Sammo - I am definitely snap shooting using this method. I literally shoot 5 arrows within ~15-30 seconds at most. Draw to anchor, release, nock, draw to anchor, release, etc.

My focus is mainly on the target and check the riser/shelf position in my peripheral.

Nomercy448

Ok, so no peep. But when I said "you end up shooting at your pins instead of your target", I was referring to your arrows, not the pins of a sight, i.e. my comment prior to shoot one arrow at one target so you're not shooting at a "target with pins in it".

The more 'stuff' you have to look at on a target, the more you'll shoot at the 'stuff' instead of the target.

90% of target shooting, with any weapon, is a mental game. You're not the first guy to have great 1st shot placement, then come apart at the seams.

Every shot should be its own event in time. Chasing your last shot is counter-productive, even if the last shot was a perfect X.

It's sort of like this: if you learn to separate shots mentally, resetting from zero, then the goal of every shot is pursuing the same ideal metric, the same perfect form, the same sweet impact. If you chase your first shot, then you are 're-calibrating' to a changing standard, rather than honing in on one perfect release standard.

Say I shoot a perfect X today with my knuckle behind my jaw for my anchor point. My next 50 pins today will be replicating that. Now say tomorrow, I'm wearing a collared jacket, and my knuckle doesn't lock behind my jaw the way I want, so I put the pad of my thumb below my ear, and I shoot a perfect X. The next 50pins replicating that. So now I had 50 pins today that contradicted the muscle memory that I trained yesterday, and I can expect to untrain/retrain a new 'feeling' tomorrow.

Changing anchor point is a pretty drastic example, I know, but I'm using that to make the point that: "I want every shot today to feel like my 1st good shot" just doesn't work. The mentality should be "I want every shot to feel the same". Consistency is king.

Psylocide

NoMercy: I understand what you're saying, but I think I'm just better at hitting the X when I don't hold full draw for any amount of time. My previous statement of playing catch-up or adjusting each shot seems to be somewhat misleading after yesterday at the range.

My form is consistent, but holding at anchor for a longer period is really what changes my groups from really good to a little wider spread.

If I release the second I hit my anchor (middle finger corner of mouth, cock feather touching nose), I'm much more able to hit the spot that I'm focusing on than if I hold there at full draw and consciously aim in that position.

I did this yesterday... shot about 100 times @ 30 yards, waited a few seconds before each follow-up shot (as opposed to quick succession). It wasn't so much the arrow after arrow after arrow quickness that helped my grouping as it was releasing as soon as I hit anchor.

Nomercy448

Are you training your draw-hold at all? I gave up traditional archery other than bowfishing several years ago, so I'm spoiled, but even holding back 28lbs gets old after a minute or so of waiting for a buck to give you a shot. My wife and I do a lot of 'delayed shot' or 'premature draw' training, both muscular training in the gym as well as holding shots for a LONG time at the range.

That might help you buy a few seconds under draw. I'm the type that will wait for the wind to be just right before I release one even on targets, so I end up holding draw whether it's hunting, matches, or just backyard practice.