Heavy, Small Diameter Arrows
 

Any of you have any experience with getting arrows together for really big game? I have tenative plans for a hunt in the next few years and I want to start getting things together for it. I' ll be moving back up in bow weight--I figure 85# or so at my draw, and want to get some arrows that weigh around 900 grains or better. Troy Breeding has some 11/32 hickory shafts that might do the trick, but I' m open for suggestions--I' d like to go smaller. I' d even consider carbon if the weight and spine is right. Broadhead will probably be 160 grains, arrow length 31" BOP, spined for 85@30.


Chad

RE: Heavy, Small Diameter Arrows
 

Chad,
I believe it' s pretty common practice for hunting in Africa, to stuff an aluminum arrow with a smaller diameter aluminum or carbon arrow. It gets the weight & spine up both. I don' t know what combinations would give you the correct spine, but it seems to me there could be a lot of combinations, including cedars inside aluminum (i.e. 5/16 cedar inside 2216 alum). Anyway, it would take some experimentation, but probably wouldn' t take too long to come up with something workable. As an altrenative, you might look at Gold Tip Big Game shafts, with heavy heads, or extra weight, would be a lot simpler, and more repeatable.

Darrel

RE: Heavy, Small Diameter Arrows
 

Yep--I have read about shafts inside of shafts, Gold Tip Big Game, Grizzley Sticks, fishing arrow shafts, etc. Just trying to narrow it down before I start buying--one fellow told me he had over $300 worth of " junk shafts" from experimenting, and I don' t want to go that route. Hopefully I will be able to get a head start from talking to others that have done this stuff! The devil of it is, when you start loading the shafts for more weight, you start messing with the spine. We' ll just have to wait and see I guess.

Chad

RE: Heavy, Small Diameter Arrows
 

Chad,

The Grizzlystick Safari arrows would be my choice if I wanted a heavy small diameter arrow for hunting large game.
Their 15gr. per inch weight is the heaviest I know of.
I hear, they' re extremely durable.
http://www.alaskabowhunting.com


Sag.

RE: Heavy, Small Diameter Arrows
 

Looking into those Sag, waiting on a reply from Alaska Archery. For $160 a dozen they should come with a robot to at least pull your arrows for you! Found several options, just not sure which to try first.

Chad

RE: Heavy, Small Diameter Arrows
 

Chad,

Easton Carbonaeros Carbon Excel 400' s wieght 8.1 grains per inch on thier own which would be about 435 grains at 30" with 160 grain bh and nock and insert. You can fill shaft with sand and get about 175 grain of wieght. These arrows are very kind to your wallet. Even us poor old southern boy' s can sell enough possum' s hides to buy these arra' s !

Chad, with this smaller dia. I really don' t think you need all that grain wieght. Promise not to tell the trade police on me. OK ? (wink - wink ) I shot a deer last year at 28 yards with a bow that was pulling 42 lbs. at my draw and an arrow that wieghed 6.3 grains per pound. This arrow broke a rib going in and coming out and barried in a tree so deep after that that I thought I would never get it out ! I just really feel that that 10 grains a pound is not needed with these smaller dia. arrows of today. Just think about it, which is easier to push into something ? An ice pick or a screwdriver ?

Just my thoughts,

Bill

RE: Heavy, Small Diameter Arrows
 

Where in the Sam Hill did you get a 265 grain arrow???

RE: Heavy, Small Diameter Arrows
 

Arthur,

Let me tell ya that I am drawlength challenged. LOL A PSE Carbon Force Extreme 200 cut to 24 1/2 " with a 85 grain Steel Force broadhead. My friends often tell me I should just shoot crossbow bolts ! I' ll just stick to my short longbow .



Bill:)

RE: Heavy, Small Diameter Arrows
 

LOL! So that' s what' s happening to all of the sody straws at McDonalds! You' re fletching them up!:D

I' m draw length challenged the other way. Not many outfits make arrow shafts long enough for me to make arrows out of ' em. Full length raw shaft (32.5" minimum, shorter don' t work), stick a nock on one end, insert in the other, a little fletching and that' s my arrow. Even my ' lite' carbons weigh over 450 grains.

With fish tank air tubing running from insert to nock, I bump that up to 587 grains. But I' ve found out that the tubing shrinks, either from summer heat or just from being pounded around, and it eventually starts sliding back and forth an inch or so. I took a 4" length of .090 weedeater line and stuck both ends into the tubing, leaving a loop sticking up and used it as a lock on the tubing. That seems to be working for now.

I tried shooting them unweighted, but my longbow rattles my bones and my recurve sounds like it' s being dry fired. I' m talking even at 8.5 grains per pound! I' ve got one heckuva long power stroke though.

Now if I could just figure out how to get the things to shoot broadheads where I look instead of making basketball size groups at 20 yards.

RE: Heavy, Small Diameter Arrows
 

Thanks for the input Bill! I really don' t think I would need re-bar arrows myself, but I have no experience whatsoever with animals like this. I think the weight is to insure penetration through hair/hide/mud/ribs/etc. I' m just going on what I have been told by a guy who has shot them, and seen them shot, with arrows. I plan on doing some penetration testing when I get the bow and see what happens with light vs. heavy. There' s bound to be a point where you loose penetration due to loss of speed, I just gotta' figure out where that is.

Chad

RE: Heavy, Small Diameter Arrows
 

Chad,
Since you usually shoot wood arrows anyway, I believe I would just stay with them. A wood arrow that spines enough will probably be around eight grain per pound anyway. I also remember an article a while back about soaking wood arrows in oil (linseed, maybe?), to add varying amounts of weight to make them more uniform. It added quite a bit of weight, waterproofed ' em too. Of course they added a finish over them also. You didn' t say what kind of bow it will be, but I assume you' re talking about a Crusader. The Crusader having a longbow riser, it will take a lower spine than say, a Hunter ll would. What are you huntin' anyhow?

Darrel

RE: Heavy, Small Diameter Arrows
 

Chad, I don' t think there will be a point where you lose penetration with more weight, but there definitely will be a point of diminishing returns where you don' t gain as much penetration as you lose trajectory. I wouldn' t even consider anything over 12 grains per pound, and that might even be pushing things. At the draw weight you' re talking about, anywhere from 8-10 grains should be plenty.

Something I have never talked about on the forums before, because of the flamethrowers, is the time I shot through 2 hogs, one 275 pounds and the other 220 pounds, on the same shot. We were more interested in killing the things off than anything else because of the damage they were doing to the fields. Yes, it was an unethical shot, but ethics don' t come into the discussion when you' re talking extermination. Anyway, I was shooting a 90 pound recurve and full length 2419 arrow tipped with a Bear Razorhead. They were standing right next to each other, maybe a foot or so apart and the arrow zipped through both of them.

I don' t have a clue how fast the arrow was going because I' d never heard of shooting arrows over a chronograph back then, but I do remember it seemed awful fast and flat. The arrow weighed around 700 grains, I guess. Somewhere just under 8 grains per pound. Kinda light on grains per pound for a trad arrow, but still pretty darn heavy.

By the way, both hogs were guests of honor at the farmer' s church barbeque the next day.

RE: Heavy, Small Diameter Arrows
 

My POC' s weigh around 620-640 grains (finished) with 125 grain points, but I' m concerned about the diameter. My hope it to hunt water buffalo in Australia in the next few years (before I am 40). It' s a bit expensive to say the least, so I want to at least get the equipment together and get familiar with it before the big expense hits. Yep, it will be a Crusader (is there anything else?;)).

Arthur, you said what I meant--although I think a fast arrow will go deeper than a spear[X(].

Maybe I am being a bit too apprehensive, but I want to be sure everything is just right for this one--not only do I not want to screw up an once in a lifetime hunt, I want to be sure I ain' t the one that goes toes-up on the deal! (them Aussie buffs are supposed to be very similar to Cape Buffalo--average a hair bigger, with the same temperment).

Chad

RE: Heavy, Small Diameter Arrows
 

Chad, to get an arrow to penetrate you need inertia. An object gets its inertia from its mass, making speed somewhat irrelavent. Obviously you don' t want a dog of an arrow that has to flag a snail down, but regardless of how fast the arrow is, if it' s easy to get it in motion it' s also easy to get it out of motion. That' s not something that sounds good when talking about big Aussie Water Buffalo. 85@30 with 31" bop and 160gr broadheads you' ll obviously have enough weight and thump to handle a lot of animal. If you' re using a large broadhead it should cut flesh and such to make way for the shaft. You could try to contact some Aussie guides and people who' ve bowhunted Waterbuffalo and see what they say about it. I reckon they' d know more about it anyways.

Brandan

RE: Heavy, Small Diameter Arrows
 

Understood Brandan--I just have to figure out where the happy medium is. I know that more mass is better, but only to a point--you have to get that bugger moving for it to do the job!

As for broadheads, the few people that I have found so far that have experience with these critters used narrow ones--Grizzly heads have been the choice so far. Wider ones have too much drag, or that is the theory at least. From what I have seen so far, a large hole is not a priority, getting to the vitals is. Some have talked about taking a 190 grain and narrowing it down and making it a 160 grain. Small diameter shafting has also been named as being very important for better penetration. I do know a lady who shot a very large Gemsbok with a light bow using Grizzly heads and got complete penetration with the head.

Maybe I am jumping the gun--I don' t even have the bow yet--but I' m gonna' do my best to get it all together well ahead of time.

Chad

RE: Heavy, Small Diameter Arrows
 

You should get with 5shot on his broadhead testing!

RE: Heavy, Small Diameter Arrows
 

I have been thinking about trying some of these battleshafts. They say they are 5/16 diameter and 20gr per inch.

http://www.alaskafrontierarchery.com...20Pricing.html

RE: Heavy, Small Diameter Arrows
 

LBR, I' m not a traditionalist, I frequent the tech forum. However, I' m bored and poking around to pass the time...

Here' s a link you might find interesting assuming you haven' t seen it already. Real world results and testing on real live big game. Although these are from Africa, I assume a cape buff is big, mean and resistent to penetration wherever he roams... :)

Hope it helps-

http://forum.hunting.net/asppg/tm.as...mode=1&smode=1

RE: Heavy, Small Diameter Arrows
 

Saw it--but thanks! I' m still trying to gather all the info. I can--hearing lots of different things from different folks, but I don' t think I' ll have anything to worry about as long as I do my part.

Chad