Traditional Bows Not Efficient Enough
 

In northern VA there is an organization called Suburban Whitetail Management, they only allow compounds and crossbows, but they hunt year round on damage stamps. I went to qualify with them today and passed. Here's the rub, I ask the guy running the testing why only compounds and crossbows? His reply wasthatthey feel that traditional bows are not efficient enough,what they are looking for is a quick clean kill with pass throughs. I said to him that I had been shooting recurves for 45 year and hunting with them for 30. I said if you shoot a 50 or 60 pound bow with a 500 or 600 grain arrows, pass throughs are the norm and a compound won't kill them any quicker. Well he got a real sour look on his face and before I ruined my chances of being accepted into the group I figured Rob you better shut up now! I guess it's their bat and ball and if I want to play in their game I have to follow their rules. Beside my wife was nice enough to go out and buy for mea nice compound, sights, quiver, release,rest, arrows and points just so I could get to go "play with some new friends". Got to LOVE that woman!

End of story...if I get accepted into the group I'll no longer be limited to Quantico Marine Base to hunt. I can still use my beloved recurves all hunting season and get a crack at some REALLY BIG urban bucks the rest of the time. I'll also be able to put a lot of venison in the Hunters for the Hungry program.

I can shoot a compound but it doesn't mean I have to like it.[:'(]
That sound like Quigley and pistols.:D

RE: Traditional Bows Not Efficient Enough
 

Well,if I couldnt hunt with my recurves or longbows I wouldn't play their game.But it's your choice so enjoy the hunting and fill some tags.Does the guy running the test think that bow hunting has only been around for the last 30yrs(or however long compounds have been around)?

RE: Traditional Bows Not Efficient Enough
 

Boy he would of gotten an earful from me and then some!! There's allot of bow hunters that shoot compounds/crossbows that will agree with this guy, that's the sad part![>:] I wouldn't be playing there game either!!

RE: Traditional Bows Not Efficient Enough
 

My opinion is go play their game, have some fun, donate some meat, and make some new friends. I realize their attitude is ignorant but ignorance is just lack of knowledge and can be changed.

Make some new friends and get together to shoot, when you do this bring alon some trad gear and let them try it. I believe that alot of todays bowhunters have never had the experience of shooting a traditional bow.

With the media today putting so much emphasis on speed that many of the younger bowhunters look at traditional gear as glorified sling shots.

It will be easier to change their minds as a friend rather than trying to bully through it.

The catch more flys with honey than vinegar sort of thing.
Just my thoughts

Rogue

RE: Traditional Bows Not Efficient Enough
 

Hey it's for a good cause, and you get to have fun and meet new folks. And if your wife was nice enough to get youa new compound it's all the better!That's the stuff that dreams are made of right there[8D]

Yup, he never said he couldn't shoot one... Just that he never had a use for one.;)

RE: Traditional Bows Not Efficient Enough
 

Some people are real set in their ways and are very closed minded. Their way is the only way. Don' blame you a bit for doing what you did to get access.

Did you ask if it is OK to use the compound without a sight or any accessory? I bet that would open a can of worms. :D

RE: Traditional Bows Not Efficient Enough
 

No I didn't ask but that might have been a real good question.;)
I'd have to practice a lot more to qualify barebow compound and I wouldn't want it to screw up my mental sight picture for shooting instinctive traditional.

RE: Traditional Bows Not Efficient Enough
 

I don't want to turn this into a wheelie bow thread or condemnation of shortsightedness on their part. I would like to hear good sound discussion on how to logically convince them as to the effectiveness and accuracy of traditional tackle.


Rogue had good advice "Make some new friends and get together to shoot, when you do this bring along some trad gear and let them try it. I believe that a lot of todays bowhunters have never had the experience of shooting a traditional bow.

With the media today putting so much emphasis on speed that many of the younger bowhunters look at traditional gear as glorified sling shots.

It will be easier to change their minds as a friend rather than trying to bully through it."

My ability: at 20 yards squirrels are in GREAT PERIL.

The qualifing target is a 6" circle (about the size of a lid from a large coffee can) not a paper plate or the kill zone of a 3D. You must get2 out of 3 arrows at 20 yards and at 30 yards using the broadheads that you will hunt with.
Anyone that wants a copy of the target can send me their e-mail address and I will send them the .pdf or .jpeg.
Make no mistake it's pretty tough.

RE: Traditional Bows Not Efficient Enough
 

I believe there was an actualstudy done which showed the wounded rate of whitetails concerning trad/compound equipment. Ask Arthur P., I heard about it from him.

Also, I think that traditional is better because hunting situations are just not the same as target or 3-d situtations. A traditional archer is able to get that quick (or relatively quick) shot off because of the physical demands of the equipment, it is something that it always practiced. The compound maybe better in situations where a longer aiming time is available. In the hunting woods, I think a lot of compounders feel rushed to get the shot off, where at the same time a trad hunter may feel it was more then enough time. Those "rushed" compound shots could actually lead to more wounded animals. I think that mistakes are compounded with a compound (punn intended). I actually feel I am at an advantage using trad equipment.

RE: Traditional Bows Not Efficient Enough
 

It never surprises me how ignorant folks can be. What's really bad though ismost won't take the time to educate themselves about the truth of the matter.

RE: Traditional Bows Not Efficient Enough
 

BobCo is correct there was a study done in 1987 my Missouri researchers that found that traditional archers wounded less deer than compound shooters. A quote frome one of the resarchers.

"Primitive archers,however, are probably unique [in that] they likely know the limitations of their weapons better, take closer shots,and [may be] more conscientious about shot selection.

I found this information in Timeless Bowhunting by Roy S. Marlow

I still belive they would be more open if the subject was brought up by a friend.

Rogue

RE: Traditional Bows Not Efficient Enough
 

Just got back from the interview. A very good point was made by the president as far as trad vs compound and their rule. He said it has mostly to do with public perception. Joe & Jane Public will and do view high tech tools as "better equipment". This organization is NOT a "hunting club" they are nuisance control and operate year round. In order to please the public they must appear to operate at the highest level. As most of us know, a lot of people question the ability to really be able to hunt with "those things."

RE: Traditional Bows Not Efficient Enough
 

Dang, bowbender...that last post kinda ruined my idea, as it's a legitimate point. (Honestly, it's pretty smart too.)

What I was GOING to say is that you go ahead and play along. Get your trad setup ready to go with a 3 BLADE head. (This is so that the many different feelings about 2-blade vs 3-blade don't come back to bite you.)

After some good friendships are made, bring the topic up again when there are some carcasses around. In a sense of fun and curiosity, throw the idea that you all compare your trad equipment with compound equipment at 25yards. Place a "fresh" broadhead target or sandbox behind the carcass and go at. I think we all agree that many/most will be suprised by the results.

Now, I know you've already got a compound system up and running but if the club works out for the long run look at the onieda bows. I've never handled one in real life. They may draw more like a wooden bow...I doubt it since they essentially use the same cams as normal compounds. Monster bows make something similar, but they're all shoot-thru cable designs and have extremely high let-off. Neither seem like a good option for traditional style shooting.

It pains me to say it, but a "modern" traditional bow with a metal riser and camo paint may go along way when dealing with public perception. (Like a Hoyt Dorado or Gamemaster and the PSE coyote, or a cheap "sleeper" bow I've heard about on another forum, the Quinn Stallion. The stallion isn't made in camo, but it's cheap enough that you could drop another $100 on a camo job and still be ahead of the game.)

There's my $0.02 of thinking out loud.

RE: Traditional Bows Not Efficient Enough
 

Their reasoning behind going compound is that they are not able to hunt successfully with no sights and no let off. It's easy to hold that compound and wait for the animal to turn for a shot. I used to hunt with an oneida strike eagle with no sights but it pulls the same as a compound but the release is different. I hunt with a recurve now but I am considering buying a longbow. Point is they do what they do because they won't or can't do it the other way.

RE: Traditional Bows Not Efficient Enough
 

Hey Rob! Have fun busting those deer in the offseason.

RE: Traditional Bows Not Efficient Enough
 

Since I still shoot both, I hold no bias towards compounds as many here obviously do. I had a real good post brewing in my head until vabowbender came in with the organizations reasons for no trad gear. I am very familiar with a similar organization that runs a highly scrutinized program here in Pittsburgh. I’ve thought about joining many times over, but they have to jump thru so many hoops, I’m just not sure how fun it would be. Public perception is HUGE. They’d get slaughtered if they tried to let trad guys have at it.

Bobco
I wish I could bring myself to your mentality regarding trad gear. Maybe I just need more time and ability to achieve that comfort level, but right now, there ain’t an OUNCE of my being that feels better equipped with my longbow than I do with my Bowtech. It just ain’t happening. Yea I am confident enough to hunt with it, & I’ll take a shot out to 18 yds or so without hesitation, but if I was dumped into an unknown hunting scenario and had to make that shot count for a million $, I’m going to have the compound.
I will agree about one thing, that I do feel many compound shooters take forever to shoot and force themselves into a rushed situation. I think it is foolish to be that way. Practicing a quick draw, anchor, aim, release should be essential in ones preparation for the season. Yet I think so few do it.

RE: Traditional Bows Not Efficient Enough
 

I can only laugh. If you talk to gun hunters, bows period are not effective enough, talk to crossbow hunters and compounds are not effective enough, talk to compound shooters and trad bows are not effective enough. It goes on and on and on and on. NOt all, just making a point.

RE: Traditional Bows Not Efficient Enough
 

I can remember when the compound movement started and people did not like the idea of compounds being used for hunting.

RE: Traditional Bows Not Efficient Enough
 

Hah?

RE: Traditional Bows Not Efficient Enough
 

The cheese stands alone :D

RE: Traditional Bows Not Efficient Enough
 

I look at it like this. I hunt with what I hunt because it makes me feel somehow closer to nature. I know I have to be smarter than my prey because they have the upper advantage on smell and hearing. Walking throught the woods with my traditional equipment is not the same as with a gun or compound. My effective kill range is shorter and I don't have the crutch of sights to depend on. So in my opinion and only my opinion the way I hunt makes it a hunt.