Schultzy...., do you feel that way about all of us?[&o] It sure doesn't fit me. If I shoot a pie plate group at 60 yards with my compound, I guarantee you I'll be standing there mentally kicking myself in the butt and trying to figure out how I'm screwing up. I'd do the same thing if I shot a pie plate group at 15 yards with my longbow. At 60 yards with my compound, or at 15 yards with the longbow,if I'm not hitting inside a 3" group, I consider it a "miss".

Oh hell no Chief, you know me better then that! I just hear it all to often in the bow hunting forum that people are tickled pink that they can hit pie plates at 40+ yards so they can then take shots at live game after hitting there so called pie plates. Chief your much better then that, there's just a bunch who aren't!

Hi, i'm new to this forum, and new to archery. I'm interested in "traditional"/"Primitive" archery. I got into archery because of my interest in learning about ancient/primitive technologies and skills. As a result I want to learn to shoot "instinctive". I want to learn to shoot the way humans all over the world did for thousands of years, without sights and mathematical calculations based on yardage. The problem is that I really can't understand how this "instinctive shooting" works. It seems anyone who claims to shoot using this method says simply to pay no mind to the bow and arrow, just concentrate on the bullseye and shoot. But in reality you could stare right at the target and point the bow at the sky, the ground, or anywhere in between and it isn't going to hit unless it is pointed in the right direction! It seems to me then, there must be some "aiming" involved, whether conscious or not.The same thing can be said of the baseball analogy that has been made on this thread. You can throw a ball to some one and stare right into the catchers mit and throw the ball in a different direction. Normally though, with throwing a ball people would naturally throw the ball somewhat in the direction of the catcher if they were actually trying to.But with a ball the method of propulsion is your arm, which unlike a bow has been attached to you for your whole life! Regardless though, when you throw a ball, you must be aiming in some way.If you are using your eyes to do something, you must be aiming, even if it is natural, or becomes natural. The same can be said of picking up a pencil, or walking out your door.Could it be then that instinctive shooting is really just an archers acquired ability to calculate where to aim at a given distance (the distance being sensed generally by sight rather than being measured)? Another thought: If one archer who shoots gap nailed the bullsye of a target, and another archer, an instinctive shooter nails it standing in the same spot, they must have both had the same gap between their points and the bullseye, though the instinctive shooter didn't consciously aim. He must have been doing the ame thing, just subconciously! Ther is only one bullseye on a target, and one line of aim on earth you can take to shoot it!

Anyway, thats my essay ! Some of you might say im thinking to hard about the whole thing, and that i should just go try it, but I tried and it isn't working out for me. I miss my target completely almost every time, and i'm alfully close! hopefully some of you instinctive shooters can help me better understand how this works!

talmid, you ask a lot of good questions and make a lot of good points.

You could also have that arrow pointed right where it needs to be and not have correct form which is going to though the arrow off. Or you could have a big mismatch in your equipement.

If you are starting you need to start with good form. To tell you the truth, I'm not 100% convinced that there are many people out there that shoot 100% instinctive. There is some real conditioning involved with shooting. I call my method conditioned instinctive. It most definetely did not start out that way, it kind of evolved to where I know how everything needs to be lined up through conditioning without realy looking at the arrow.

Ok look, i started this thread and to me it is somtimes getting way off the subject. But here is the thing, im having to shot to the right to make it hit in the middle.

My best advice for any new shooter is to spend a couple years absolutely obsessed with it. Read and watch everything you can get your hands on... Some tips that I think helped me:

1. Understand and master back tension. Back tension takes care of so many other issues if properly applied.

2. Use a weight that you can comfortably hold while you apply back tension.

3.Shoot using the gap method. Research it on the big internet forums and really get a grasp on it.

4. Shoot 3 under, it makes gap shooting 10 times easier as it puts the arrow much closer to the target. A 12 inch gap is easier to recognize than a 28 inch gap!

After a very shot period of time, GAP becomes natural and you never even think about it.

One thing that I've learned is this..... Everyone can shoot decent groups at 15 yds, even with horrible form and poorly tuned equipment. The 20-30yd shot is what seperates the men from the boys and solid, repeatable form coupled with tuned equipment makes that much, much easier..

If I remember correctly, Fred Bear said.. "I pick a spot and imagine a hole there, and try to shoot through the hole". Anyway, it was something like that. I just try to hit the spot I'm looking at and let-er-go. Instintive I guess! I hit it, or I'm close99% of the time. Guess I'm lucky too.

i tried that and it did not work.

KZA,what arrows are you using and what pound bow?

Excellent advice. I did it that way, pretty much. I started shooting arecurve back in the late 70s. I was young and had no one to teach me. I just shot and was developing a bit of an instinctive style. As I got older and started hunting small game, I developed the gap method out of necessity to insure I hit the animal. I really didn't know what it was called, just took the time to find where the tip of my arrow needed to be, in relation to the target. I did so just so I could aim. As I learned about shooting, I fixed form problems and started shooting more instinctive. Just as you mentioned. People will developed a kinesthetic awareness after a while of gap shooting. I will now use both methods. If a deer, hog, or what ever steps out and gives me time to aim, ill gap it. If I'm fishing or shooting moving targets (like rabbits), its pure instinctive. I feel it is important to learn both. Use which ever you like the best, or both.