Elitist attitude
03-02-2008, 02:27 PM
#161
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 9,445
RE: Elitist attitude
No matter how you look at it folks a crossbow is always at full draw and locked when a hunter is settled in and waiting. There's no ways around that argument for the people who are capable of pulling a compound/recurve/longbow back. Thats the huge difference to me between a crossbow and bow.
03-02-2008, 03:48 PM
#162
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Moravia NY USA
Posts: 2,164
RE: Elitist attitude
No matter how you look at it folks a crossbow is always at full draw and locked when a hunter is settled in and waiting. There's no ways around that argument for the people who are capable of pulling a compound/recurve/longbow back. Thats the huge difference to me between a crossbow and bow.
I asked then how this "advantage is any different then the one gained from shooting from inside a ground blind or 25 ft up a tree. If one is not allowed should not both be banned?
I predicted few if any would respond.
I was right - again - no one ever soes.
Another fact is that not one season has been ruined by the inclusion of crossbows - most are longer now then before.
So the sky will fall arguement has NO BASIS in real real results - just another emotional scare tactic.
Steve
03-02-2008, 04:10 PM
#163
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 9,445
RE: Elitist attitude
ORIGINAL: SteveBNy
Several pages back this was stated (as it always is) as a superior advantage- not drawing so the game can see you.
I asked then how this "advantage is any different then the one gained from shooting from inside a ground blind or 25 ft up a tree. If one is not allowed should not both be banned?
I predicted few if any would respond.
I was right - again - no one ever soes.
Another fact is that not one season has been ruined by the inclusion of crossbows - most are longer now then before.
So the sky will fall arguement has NO BASIS in real real results - just another emotional scare tactic.
Steve
No matter how you look at it folks a crossbow is always at full draw and locked when a hunter is settled in and waiting. There's no ways around that argument for the people who are capable of pulling a compound/recurve/longbow back. Thats the huge difference to me between a crossbow and bow.
I asked then how this "advantage is any different then the one gained from shooting from inside a ground blind or 25 ft up a tree. If one is not allowed should not both be banned?
I predicted few if any would respond.
I was right - again - no one ever soes.
Another fact is that not one season has been ruined by the inclusion of crossbows - most are longer now then before.
So the sky will fall arguement has NO BASIS in real real results - just another emotional scare tactic.
Steve
03-02-2008, 05:43 PM
#164
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Obama made me join the NRA for 5 years !
Posts: 2,181
RE: Elitist attitude
Fact is guys, crossbows in archery season have NEVER been a negative impact to seasons or bag limits. ever
Fact is, if we're all striving for a big tent theory, to all stay banned toghether, we need to welcome crossbows with open arms, right ?
Fact is, if there are fewer hunters, we NEED crossbows as a means to get people INTO archery, don't we ?
Compounds will bristle at the above. They will try to say crossbows aren't archery ( ignoring the two thousand years or crossbows steeped in archery history)
Anti-crossbowers will tell you (and 98% of these guys shoot compounds BTW) that crossbows are TOO easy, easy being relative because they don't want to consider THEIR choice of easy to be looked at as too easy by trad shooters !
Where is the consistancy ? If compounders can look at crossbows and say " your'e not allowed in archery season, I don't like you because of A,B,C " why can't I do the same as a trad shooter ?
Why is that an elitist attitude, and its not the other way around ?
I had a long reply typed and something glitched, I auto-logged out and didn't retype all of it - sorry
the one quote was on shooting from a blind or way up - thats a WAY to hunt, not a difference in weapons
Fact is, if we're all striving for a big tent theory, to all stay banned toghether, we need to welcome crossbows with open arms, right ?
Fact is, if there are fewer hunters, we NEED crossbows as a means to get people INTO archery, don't we ?
Compounds will bristle at the above. They will try to say crossbows aren't archery ( ignoring the two thousand years or crossbows steeped in archery history)
Anti-crossbowers will tell you (and 98% of these guys shoot compounds BTW) that crossbows are TOO easy, easy being relative because they don't want to consider THEIR choice of easy to be looked at as too easy by trad shooters !
Where is the consistancy ? If compounders can look at crossbows and say " your'e not allowed in archery season, I don't like you because of A,B,C " why can't I do the same as a trad shooter ?
Why is that an elitist attitude, and its not the other way around ?
I had a long reply typed and something glitched, I auto-logged out and didn't retype all of it - sorry
the one quote was on shooting from a blind or way up - thats a WAY to hunt, not a difference in weapons
03-02-2008, 05:56 PM
#165
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 478
RE: Elitist attitude
I dont know...I think most of us(myself included) have done a pretty good job of showing that we are "elitists" 
I am sure at some point there will have to be a line draw as to what is archery and what is not as technology continues to push archery further forward. Till they come up with something that puts the odds in the hunters favor rather than the deer, I think I will keep a few extra arrows on hand...just incase I miss...
Wyvern
I am sure at some point there will have to be a line draw as to what is archery and what is not as technology continues to push archery further forward. Till they come up with something that puts the odds in the hunters favor rather than the deer, I think I will keep a few extra arrows on hand...just incase I miss...Wyvern
03-02-2008, 05:58 PM
#166
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: Elitist attitude
Fact is guys, crossbows in archery season have NEVER been a negative impact to seasons or bag limits. ever
PA has 270,000 bowhunters now.........and another 730,000 licensed DEER hunters who don't participate in archery season. I can't find a quiet spot now.........bring crossbows in and I will guarantee you that the number of people in archery season doubles in 1 season. You want to see it affect seasons, bag limits and the quality of the experience that is archery season , then bring them to PA.
Fact is, if we're all striving for a big tent theory, to all stay banned toghether, we need to welcome crossbows with open arms, right ?
NOPE
Fact is, if there are fewer hunters, we NEED crossbows as a means to get people INTO archery, don't we ?
NOPE
Compounds will bristle at the above. They will try to say crossbows aren't archery ( ignoring the two thousand years or crossbows steeped in archery history)
They aren't bows by MY definition
Anti-crossbowers will tell you (and 98% of these guys shoot compounds BTW) that crossbows are TOO easy, easy being relative because they don't want to consider THEIR choice of easy to be looked at as too easy by trad shooters !
YEP...and I'm not "Anti-Crossbow" just anti crossbow being considered archery equipment by MY definition of what I consider a bow.
Where is the consistancy ? If compounders can look at crossbows and say " your'e not allowed in archery season, I don't like you because of A,B,C " why can't I do the same as a trad shooter ?
You can, knock yourself out.
Why is that an elitist attitude, and its not the other way around ?
Because a compound is a bow, a crossbow is not.........you can jump up and down and site 2,000,000 yrs of evolution if you like. To ME a bow needs to be hand drawn and held for a finite amount of time by human power.
You can keep making the same case over and over and over.........you will never convince me, I know what I want, I know what I believe, and I know how I define things. If you don't like it or it doesn't fit YOUR definitions then tough crap.
I said it before, it's a futile argument, You will never convince me, I will never convince you.
So feel free to fight for crossbows in archery season if you choose, and I will feel free to fight to keep them outif I so choosebecause we both honestly believe different things.
PA has 270,000 bowhunters now.........and another 730,000 licensed DEER hunters who don't participate in archery season. I can't find a quiet spot now.........bring crossbows in and I will guarantee you that the number of people in archery season doubles in 1 season. You want to see it affect seasons, bag limits and the quality of the experience that is archery season , then bring them to PA.
Fact is, if we're all striving for a big tent theory, to all stay banned toghether, we need to welcome crossbows with open arms, right ?
NOPE
Fact is, if there are fewer hunters, we NEED crossbows as a means to get people INTO archery, don't we ?
NOPE
Compounds will bristle at the above. They will try to say crossbows aren't archery ( ignoring the two thousand years or crossbows steeped in archery history)
They aren't bows by MY definition
Anti-crossbowers will tell you (and 98% of these guys shoot compounds BTW) that crossbows are TOO easy, easy being relative because they don't want to consider THEIR choice of easy to be looked at as too easy by trad shooters !
YEP...and I'm not "Anti-Crossbow" just anti crossbow being considered archery equipment by MY definition of what I consider a bow.
Where is the consistancy ? If compounders can look at crossbows and say " your'e not allowed in archery season, I don't like you because of A,B,C " why can't I do the same as a trad shooter ?
You can, knock yourself out.
Why is that an elitist attitude, and its not the other way around ?
Because a compound is a bow, a crossbow is not.........you can jump up and down and site 2,000,000 yrs of evolution if you like. To ME a bow needs to be hand drawn and held for a finite amount of time by human power.
You can keep making the same case over and over and over.........you will never convince me, I know what I want, I know what I believe, and I know how I define things. If you don't like it or it doesn't fit YOUR definitions then tough crap.
I said it before, it's a futile argument, You will never convince me, I will never convince you.
So feel free to fight for crossbows in archery season if you choose, and I will feel free to fight to keep them outif I so choosebecause we both honestly believe different things.
03-02-2008, 06:14 PM
#167
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 478
RE: Elitist attitude
"You want to see it affect seasons, bag limits and the quality of the experience that is archery season , then bring them to PA"
I just got back from PA last weekend. My wife and I played "count the carcasses" on rt 84 on the way down and back. I sat in my hotel room and watched this huge herd of deer feed in the field across the street. Either you have some crappy hunters in PA, or you are in the wrong part of the state.
"bring crossbows in and I will guarantee you that the number of people in archery season doubles in 1 season. "
FINALLY!!!someone admits that the reason they dont want crossbows is because they want the woods all to themselves. By any chance do you own an auto body shop in PA???
Wyvern
I just got back from PA last weekend. My wife and I played "count the carcasses" on rt 84 on the way down and back. I sat in my hotel room and watched this huge herd of deer feed in the field across the street. Either you have some crappy hunters in PA, or you are in the wrong part of the state.
"bring crossbows in and I will guarantee you that the number of people in archery season doubles in 1 season. "
FINALLY!!!someone admits that the reason they dont want crossbows is because they want the woods all to themselves. By any chance do you own an auto body shop in PA???
Wyvern
03-02-2008, 06:38 PM
#168
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: Elitist attitude
FINALLY!!!someone admits that the reason they dont want crossbows is because they want the woods all to themselves. By any chance do you own an auto body shop in PA???
Wyvern
Wyvern
No no autobody shop. I barely know a piston from a pop-tart.
And no i don't want the woods "To myself" I can't get that NOW. LOL Bring them in and you'll finally see the opposite end of the "They will never affect seasons and bag limits"
This is a crazy state with too many people, and too many of them already trying to find their own slice of the pie. I will not even hunt in the general firearms season as it is now.
Call it selfish I don't care but I don't want to see what I know as an archery season turn into a shorter season fueled by another 2-500,000 people looking for a place to hunt with a weapon that I already don't consider a BOW. Sorry.
The 3 farms I hunt I only get to hunt now because I don't rifle hunt and the guys who DO rifle hunt it don't bow hunt.
Make crossbows legal in archery seasonand it's just another early "rifle" season because those guys who are unable to or don't want to put the time in to figure out how to work a compound or recurve now can simply sight their crossbow scopes in and flood the woods. These guys don't UNDERSTAND bows, but you can bet your bottom dollar they'll understand how to load a bolt, line up the crosshairs and squeeze a trigger.
You don't think that will happen? Then you don't know PA very well.
03-02-2008, 06:40 PM
#169
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 9,445
RE: Elitist attitude
ORIGINAL: Wyvern Crossbow
"You want to see it affect seasons, bag limits and the quality of the experience that is archery season , then bring them to PA"
I just got back from PA last weekend. My wife and I played "count the carcasses" on rt 84 on the way down and back. I sat in my hotel room and watched this huge herd of deer feed in the field across the street. Either you have some crappy hunters in PA, or you are in the wrong part of the state.
"bring crossbows in and I will guarantee you that the number of people in archery season doubles in 1 season. "
FINALLY!!!someone admits that the reason they dont want crossbows is because they want the woods all to themselves. By any chance do you own an auto body shop in PA???
Wyvern
"You want to see it affect seasons, bag limits and the quality of the experience that is archery season , then bring them to PA"
I just got back from PA last weekend. My wife and I played "count the carcasses" on rt 84 on the way down and back. I sat in my hotel room and watched this huge herd of deer feed in the field across the street. Either you have some crappy hunters in PA, or you are in the wrong part of the state.
"bring crossbows in and I will guarantee you that the number of people in archery season doubles in 1 season. "
FINALLY!!!someone admits that the reason they dont want crossbows is because they want the woods all to themselves. By any chance do you own an auto body shop in PA???
Wyvern
03-02-2008, 07:07 PM
#170
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 478
RE: Elitist attitude
You want a challenge??? Come up to my neck of the woods and try hunting. I am 20 minutes from Massachusetts and you think PA is screwed up? and 20 minutes from Maine who has a 1 deer limit and no hunting on Sundays. I had some idiot light off his 12 gauge in my back yard last season at 7 on a Sunday morning taking a pot shot at a moving deer that was between him and my house. He missed the deer of course (so guns are easier???) and thankfully the house as well.
I understand your comments, but I SELL these things I think I know more about it than some....what you are worried about does not happen. Yes, you get a few that transition, but most do not want to be "bow hunters" and actually get close to an animal and turn away shots that are not going to kill the deer. It is much easier to sit at the edge of a field and hit an animal in the neck at 200yrds then congratulate themselves on being "hunters".
Yes, I am physicaly able. I generaly hunt with a long bow. I have never been comfortable with a compound, but I enjoy crossbows. Also building my own tends to get me involved in them as well. Crossbows are just as much fun as any other form of archery. They do allow me to be more accurate than my longbow at longer ranges, but they are not replacing it. Why do you shoot a recurve instead of a long bow??? Why does the next guy shoot an aluminum riser recurve?? It is all archery, and it is fun to shoot..dont need much more reason than that...
Wyvern
I understand your comments, but I SELL these things I think I know more about it than some....what you are worried about does not happen. Yes, you get a few that transition, but most do not want to be "bow hunters" and actually get close to an animal and turn away shots that are not going to kill the deer. It is much easier to sit at the edge of a field and hit an animal in the neck at 200yrds then congratulate themselves on being "hunters".
Yes, I am physicaly able. I generaly hunt with a long bow. I have never been comfortable with a compound, but I enjoy crossbows. Also building my own tends to get me involved in them as well. Crossbows are just as much fun as any other form of archery. They do allow me to be more accurate than my longbow at longer ranges, but they are not replacing it. Why do you shoot a recurve instead of a long bow??? Why does the next guy shoot an aluminum riser recurve?? It is all archery, and it is fun to shoot..dont need much more reason than that...
Wyvern