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RE: Elitist attitude
"And if you ask your average Joe Average why he's buying a crossbow, he's going to tell you he doesn't have all year to put into a craft to miss a deer on opening day"
OK...as a person who makes his living selling archery equipment, and in particular crossbows, I can tell you this is not true. It is a steriotype that anti crossbow people have thrown out there along with other missinformation.Most are avid archers that enjoy the sport and shoot regulary to not only maintain proficiency, but for the sheer joy of archery. Yes, there are those that sight it in, put it away and pull it out the day before season opens to make sure it is still sighted in and wander into the woods. Hate to tell you, I can name quite a few compound shooters, that do the exact same thing. All the gadgets attached to a modern compound allow for a very quick success rate on the range and after the 7th or 8th bullseye quite a few compound shooters feel they are "ready".Unfortunately, while workingfor a large retailer I havebeen involved in selling and setting up a compound bow to a brand new archer only to find out at the register that them and their brother-in-law are leaving in the morning to go hunting for the first time. There is a reason that I am very carefull dressing out a deer that I dont cut myself on someone elses bad shot broadhead stuck somewhere in the animal. There are also quite a few trad guys that should spend a few more months on a range before they go into the woods as well. Give me a complete novice archer than has at least some ability to focus and a properly set up compound and in 20 minutes and I will have him drilling bullseyes at ethical hunting ranges. I have done this countless times.If the ease of mastery is all that is of concern then ban compounds. Ease of mastery does not make it "not archery". So what was the point of this thread again????? Wyvern |
RE: Elitist attitude
andbecause Most people that shoot crossbows are taking the easy way out 100% exactly the same reason people shoot compounds. I shot a compound last year when I was hunting deer - I took my recurve and compound both to Canada but hunted 100% with the recurve. Why ? Because with that compound I copuld pick it up not having shot it in 3 months and have inches accuracy at 30-35-40 yards and beyond. I took it because I wanted easier. Ask yourself this - if you don't want crossbows in archery season, really truely dig down and decide WHY, it will almost certainly be because they're a different kind of bow, the mechanics of it etc. Traditional recurve/longbow shooters canuse the SAME EXACT reasoning to say they don't want compound in archery season. Thats a 100% true, and when you realize that you come to two conclusions. #1 allow anything in archeryseason that is archery, or #2 we need to set seasons based on levels of equipment. What we have right now is inconsistant, and the tides are changing every year to allow crossbows in archery season. Why ? Because there is no argument against having them anymore vs compounds. Its not so much an issuefor trad shooters - but compounders are faced with some reality checks for sure. |
RE: Elitist attitude
ORIGINAL: SteveBNy i dont know one guy with a Crossbow that puts that kind of effort into practice. Thank you. Steve Also, Im not sure what the law is where everyone else is at....but i think its fair to say that where they are allowedCrossbow should beits ownseparate season. if it runsinside of Bow season Fine. #2 we need to set seasons based on levels of equipment. on the same note Maybee People useing Traditional (Recurve, lonbow, selfbow) without sights and gadgets should get a week long season all to themselves,Before "bow season".... the problem with all this is where does it stop....where does it start...where do you draw the line......i dont have any problem or issues with the way the law is as it stands....Nobody bothers me while im hunting...and i like to see other people get kills,What they use doesnt matter. i thinkfor some it all boils down to Jelousey/selfishness issuesthat they have, some people think that they own gods woods andthe animalsin it....and they would probably like to be the only person in the world allowed to hunt. they get mad when theyhear about aguy hunting with a Shotty getting a nice deer 100 yards from their bow stand vice versa...thinking it should have been his kill. its just stupidity, the laws are ok the way they are if you ask me....could they be Improved or Tweaked a little Probably, but they arent bad the way they are. |
RE: Elitist attitude
ORIGINAL: burniegoeasily Its bad if you are a jerk about it and down grade everyone on their chosen hunting practice. If you have a live and let live attitude, no problem pushing yourself. In my state the compound shooters tend to be extremely anticrossbow, yet what many of them are shooting is little different other than lacking a stock. Ironically, they view trad shooters as an ideal, even though the vast majority of them would never choose a trad bow to hunt. Go figure...  |
RE: Elitist attitude
"but i think its fair to say that where they are allowedCrossbow should beits ownseparate season. if it runsinside of Bow season Fine."
Why??? So you can have the woods to yourself for a few weeks??? The compound bow in many states is the ONLY reason that there is a bow hunting season at all. If it were not for the ease of use and short learning curve and the ability to hold only 10 or less pounds at full draw, there would not be enough "bow hunters" to get the states to even recognize their existance. Hate to point this out, but the average age of a traditionalist is not getting any younger, and the VAST majority of compound users all "used to hunt with a recurve till I could not pull it back anymore". Well, guess what...those same hunters are now finding that even a compound is getting more dificult. You going to "kick them out of the club" because they are not able to shoot what YOU consider a bow??? Elitism...arrogance....pigheadedness...anal-cranial inversion, call it what you want, but non of the anti crossbow people can come up with any argument besides "I dont want them in my season competing with me for MY deer". Grow up... I shoot a long bow I made...wood arrows with feathers that I made....stored in a quiver I made...with no tree stand, or range finder, or scents, or any other item that will allow me to take "the easy way". How arrogant and selfish am I that I would prevent someone else from enjoying being in the woods, and adding their hard earned cash to the F&G departments that help gaurentee I have a place to hunt that may actually have a few deer in it simply because I think their equipment is "not archery" when any half wit can clearly see that it is... This thread went from being a question of the validity oftraditional archers thinking they are better than anyone else, to the justification of seperating every concievable form of archery into seperate seasons to allow a few selfish individuals the illusion that they are"special".Did Santa not bring you that train set you wanted so badly or something??? OK...lets turn this around...Lets give everyone seperate seasons.....Primitive gets the first 2 weeks, then traditional, then compound (finger release only), then compound with release, then crossbow....then we can go intoALL the gun divisions. HOWEVER...you can ONLY shoot yourform of archery during THOSE TWO WEEKS and not before or after...Seems only fair to me... How much crying and kicking and screaming would THAT cause??? You wait ALL year long to hunt and only can go for a few days before" your season" is over. Lets hope "your season" is during pre rut, or is not flooded out with fall rains, or a sudden heat wave or something...Gee, that would be too bad, wouldnt it? There should be only 2 season...archery and gun...that is it. "twang" or "boom". SO, now that I went against my better judgement and got back into this multi page pile of stinking arrogance can someone PLEASE tell me what the purpose of this thread is other than to further divide an already fractured sport???? Wyvern |
RE: Elitist attitude
 ........I gave up on this being how I see bow hunting as just that HUNTING...Limbs,string and arrow.... |
RE: Elitist attitude
ORIGINAL: Wyvern Crossbow "but i think its fair to say that where they are allowedCrossbow should beits ownseparate season. if it runsinside of Bow season Fine." Why??? So you can have the woods to yourself for a few weeks??? The compound bow in many states is the ONLY reason that there is a bow hunting season at all. If it were not for the ease of use and short learning curve and the ability to hold only 10 or less pounds at full draw, there would not be enough "bow hunters" to get the states to even recognize their existance. Hate to point this out, but the average age of a traditionalist is not getting any younger, and the VAST majority of compound users all "used to hunt with a recurve till I could not pull it back anymore". Well, guess what...those same hunters are now finding that even a compound is getting more dificult. You going to "kick them out of the club" because they are not able to shoot what YOU consider a bow??? Elitism...arrogance....pigheadedness...anal-cranial inversion, call it what you want, but non of the anti crossbow people can come up with any argument besides "I dont want them in my season competing with me for MY deer". Grow up... I shoot a long bow I made...wood arrows with feathers that I made....stored in a quiver I made...with no tree stand, or range finder, or scents, or any other item that will allow me to take "the easy way". How arrogant and selfish am I that I would prevent someone else from enjoying being in the woods, and adding their hard earned cash to the F&G departments that help gaurentee I have a place to hunt that may actually have a few deer in it simply because I think their equipment is "not archery" when any half wit can clearly see that it is... This thread went from being a question of the validity oftraditional archers thinking they are better than anyone else, to the justification of seperating every concievable form of archery into seperate seasons to allow a few selfish individuals the illusion that they are"special".Did Santa not bring you that train set you wanted so badly or something??? OK...lets turn this around...Lets give everyone seperate seasons.....Primitive gets the first 2 weeks, then traditional, then compound (finger release only), then compound with release, then crossbow....then we can go intoALL the gun divisions. HOWEVER...you can ONLY shoot yourform of archery during THOSE TWO WEEKS and not before or after...Seems only fair to me... How much crying and kicking and screaming would THAT cause??? You wait ALL year long to hunt and only can go for a few days before" your season" is over. Lets hope "your season" is during pre rut, or is not flooded out with fall rains, or a sudden heat wave or something...Gee, that would be too bad, wouldnt it? There should be only 2 season...archery and gun...that is it. "twang" or "boom". SO, now that I went against my better judgement and got back into this multi page pile of stinking arrogance can someone PLEASE tell me what the purpose of this thread is other than to further divide an already fractured sport???? Wyvern "the problem with all this is where does it stop....where does it start...where do you draw the line......i dont have any problem or issues with the way the law is as it stands....Nobody bothers me while im hunting...and i like to see other people get kills,What they use doesnt matter. " and this "i thinkfor some it all boils down to Jelousey/selfishness issuesthat they have, some people think that they own gods woods andthe animalsin it....and they would probably like to be the only person in the world allowed to hunt. they get mad when theyhear about aguy hunting with a Shotty getting a nice deer 100 yards from their bow stand vice versa...thinking it should have been his kill. its just stupidity, the laws are ok the way they are if you ask me....could they be Improved or Tweaked a little Probably, but they arent bad the way they are." i dont care what you use. some people are Crybaby's and i understand that....thats why the law is the way it is and it more than likely wont be changed.....Lets face it Crossbow shooters and Traditional shooters are a huge MINORITY when it comes to "bowhunting". Deal with it......i dont expect the state to cater to my needs....and i dont feel like im at a disadvatageor that Compounders are stepping on my toes. but what happens if they lump Crossbows in with Compound nation wide for a full 3 month season. Compound shooters will switch to crossbow and Gunners will too.....then you have all these people with crossbowsout in the woods at the same time shooting at eachother because they are pissed off. the law is fine the way it is.... do Crossbowers feel discriminated against or something??? |
RE: Elitist attitude
"but what happens if they lump Crossbows in with Compound nation wide for a full 3 month season. Compound shooters will switch to crossbow and Gunners will too.....then you have all these people with crossbowsout in the woods at the same time shooting at eachother because they are pissed off."
What happens is the same thing it did inOhio and every other state where a crossbowis just "another bow". The deer population continues to grow and the archers see no change in their ability to hunt sinceextreamly few gun hunterscare to actually change their tactics to getclose enough to game to use a "bow". The crowds of gun hunters charging thru the woods with crossbows DOES NOT HAPPEN!! Proven, time and again. That and the vast majority of compound hunters, if they can still comfortably draw their bows, will not switch to a crossbow even if it was open to them. All it really does is allow either new archers an alternative to the sport, and those of us thatdont particularly like compounds (myself for instance)the ability to broaden our options of equipment. It is a bow...why not allow it?? "do Crossbowers feel discriminated against or something??? " Yes, and righfully so...it is a bow..that has been proven over and over again and yet there is always someone holding a full on Mathews that claims he is an "archer" and he is holding a "bow" but my medieval crossbow is illegal. That is discrimination. If the law allows that something that is technologicaly as far from a long bow as a compoundis a bow, then there should be no argument that a crossbow...which in many instances is LESS high tech than most compounds should also be allowed. It is a stupid argument. A crossbow should have no more right to a "special season" than a compound, and since a compound is considered a bow then the point is made that "archery season" includes crossbows. *You dont like crossbows, fine, you are entitled you your opinion. That you want to limit the use of another bow simply to keep the woods you yourself is arrogant and ignorant. You are under the delusion that crossbows will be the end of hunting as you know it and that has been proven not to be the case. You feel that it is not a bow, that has been proven not to be the case. All the "proof" is not going to change your mind. I can accept that.But I dont see where your attitude is doing anything to promote archery or hunting overall. Crossbows are not for everyone. If a few things had happend differently in history the crossbow mayhave overshadowed the vertical bow. Imagine that.We would now all be shootingcrossbows and complaining that a long bow is "not a bow" and it should not be allowed in "our season". It is all a matter of perspective.... * the use of "you" in this section is not directed at any one idividual. I am speaking in general terms and this is not meant to be a direct slam or attach on any idividual on this thread. It comes accross that way and wanted to head off an issue. Wyvern |
RE: Elitist attitude
Anyway, say Wyvern have you heard anything more on the recurve for the Vortex yet ?...
4 hunting seasons 1st 3 weeks...longbow,recurve only...... 2nd 3 weeks...crossbow only..... 2 week non hunting durring prime rut..... 3rd 3 weeks...compound only 4th and last 3 week gun(rifle,black powder,pistol).. there ya have it and this is the LAW that was put in place in 2009....and it aplies to all privit or public land....this was put into place to give all hunters and elite groups a fare and timewise hunting opertuneity to hunt with out worring about the other type of hunter.. Since this is LAW there is also a 2 week NO HUNTING time witch falls durring the prime rut,No hunter may enter the wood carring any said weapon durring this time and if caught will lose all hunting privlages for life..... Trophy only Hunters must apply and recive permit for this hunt and all meat must be taged and signed in for distribution.Failer to fowllow this will be reson for all hunting privlages to be revolked for life... This is what will and can happen if we are not carefull...... |
RE: Elitist attitude
I dont hate crossbows or people that hunt with them
if your disabled then you should be able to use them. during the same season asArchery season,i dont understand why some states have a complete ban. you have To define whats archery....whats a Bow... you cant keep bluring the line untill their isnt one, and it ends up anything goes ultimately. if they lump Crossbow in with compound...over time.... LOok at it like this....what did a Compound look and shoot like in the 70's..(Many still chose Recurve/longbows)...wood riser with recurve Limbs and Wheels with 50% letoff for the most part....Minimum speed gain over a Recurve....Now look at a compound....it doesntfeel anything like one from the 70's same with crossbow over time more and more will use them they will get better and better and afrter a while a bow isnt a bow....and archery isnt archery....is that the Make beleive that you say others speak of? You cant Change the Definition of something because you feel descriminated agaist... a Crossbow is a Crossbow....Disabled needs them to level the playing field, if you arent disabled why should youbeallowed an advantage over joe hunter.So why isnt it allright for JoeHunter to bait his deer if hes using an inferior weapon. ...where do you draw the line???? whencompoundscame to be....ill guaranttee that they never imagined that they would end up beingwhat they are today....when they let them in they looked alot like recuves but had Wheels....but where shotwith the same Basic form as A traditional bow....THATS THE DIFFERENCE. what happens if you throw crossbows into the mix over time? now i think im gonna go do some fishing with Dynomite y'all wont mind will you. it really doesnt matter to me but there are some interesting points Theory's about the issue.....either way it doesnt bother me, but it must really suck to feel discriminated against......you as a crossbow hunter shouldnt have to deal with that. if they legalize crossbow and call it archery season i wont mind....im still gonna do my thing.......you know why??????? \ i am the Best.:Dand the best can do whatever the best wants too.:D |
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