Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

I am new to bowhunting and am just now really learning the sport. Well I bought my arrows last year and because I was using a 55# recurve the guy sold me light arrows, 212 grain, because they would increase velocity and have flatter flight path. However I just discovered more mass is what really helps penetration, and I was wondering if it is irresponsible for me to continue hunting with these, I'm thinking about getting some 125 g stingers to go with them. And a buddy of mine has some old easton superlite xx75 2114 arrows which are heavier but I have no idea of there mass. should I switch to those, or will my arrows be sufficient?

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

I know I wouldn't hunt with your setup. I would hunt at least a 500gr setup. And really would want a 550gr with yours. I suggest 2018 30" arrow with 125-150gr tip.

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

I shoot 420gr from a 53lb recurve with no problems. Lots of trad hunters take whitetails with 400 grns.
Great flying arrow, sharp broadhead and hit them in the vitals = deed dear with passthru.
Only reason I would shoot heavier then 8 gr/lbfor deerwould beto quiet a noisy bow - but then I would not have a bow that required it.;)

Steve

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

In my limited experience I've found that the heavier the arrow the more forgiving the set up is.

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

A 55 lb recurve dosn't have the speed like a compound, so stay with a heavier arrow and cut on impack broadheads single blade better than three are four blades, but thats some thing you should deside on. I feal like SteveBNy 450 grians should do it. Just make a good hit, don't shoot at any thing your not sure if you can make a good hit on.

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

I think a better question is why not shoot a heavier arrow of 10-12gr/pound of pull? I mean, there are pluses all around. Quieter, better penetration, more FOC usually. I am not sure why people would want to shoot a 400gr arrow?

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

Unfortunately the guy that sold you those arrows is not familiar with traditional archery. 212 grain arrows out of a 55# bow is only giving you less than 4 grains per pound of draw weight. Not even safe for a compound let alone a recurve. A traditional bow is more effeciant when shooting 9 to 12 grains per pound. Besides that, shooting less than 4 gpp will more than likely cause damage to your limbs.
Jump to those 2114 with 125 up front.

Next time you are looking for arrows remember, when an arrow is too light, it is incapable of receiving the stored energy from the bows limbs on release. If the arrow cannot absorb that energy, it transferes back to the bow. That's what causes hand shock and noise. This holds true for compounds as well. When a compound archer shoots 5 gpp then has to put on all the silencing gadgets to make the bow quieter it is because of this same reason. All you have to do is increase the arrow weight and achieve the same result.

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

I like 10-11 grains per pound for my hunting bows.. That gives me a good over all balance of speed, forgiveness, silence, etc...

I shoot a 50@27 with 560 grain arrows...

You're arrows are not even safe for your bow! You need to make a change quick.

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

I've got to ask. Is that 212 grains total arrow weight or only bare shaft weight?

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

Answer would be to help cut back onthe high low misses that come from making minor miscalculations in distance (consciously or instinctive) that happen when shooting unmarked yardages. Real easy in the woods to "see" a 22yd shot as 17 or even 27 - especially when stalking or still hunting and shots happen quickly.
Deer are hardly ever lost from poor penetration on an accurately placed shot.
Most unrecovered animals come from a poorly placed shot.
My bows are quiet at 400 to 420 and have no problems with penetration on shots to the vitals.
Another 100 to 200 grn would not help in a gut shot or other poorly placed shot.
My question would be - why would I go heavier - make pinpoint yardage more critical - and likely up my odds greatly of making other then good shots on game?

Steve

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

Yea, 212 grain total weight almost seems impossible to do. Something seems wrong.

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

Too me, in my opinion, you want a compound with sights. Just my opinion.

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

I don't think a 420 gn arrow from a recurve is going to have much trajectory advantage over a 500 gn arrow. It's still going to drop out of the kill zone and wound the animal if the target is beyond 3 yards of your estimate, just like the 500 gn arrow will.

I really hate that version of pro light arrow reasoning anyway. It carries sort of an unethical taint to me, making us sound like we should take shots on game when we're not reasonably certain of the distance.

But, frankly, I'm not concerned about someone hunting with a 420 gn arrow. I've long preached that there should be a 400 gn minimum legal arrow weight for hunting. That goes double for traditional bows, where we're not pumping out gobs and gobs of KE. 420 grains is lighter than I'd use or recommend, but I'm not going to bust some else's chops for using it.

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

I have one - APA Black Mamba.
Gets about 10% of my hunting time and less then 5% of my shooting time.

In my opinion, the "might as well just shoot a compound" response when someone does not agree with your version of "THE" setup is more then a little weak.

You might try actually countering the points I made - show me how I am wrong and why I should change.

Steve

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

Back to the original question--even with 125 grain points, those arrows will be way too light for a 55# recurve--you will damage the bow, not to mention the increased noise and hand shock.

420 grain arrows are generally plenty heavy enough to pass through a deer (as long as you get everything else right), but I don't buy into the "lighter, flatter shooting, makes up for a yardage goof" argument. Here's why.

Just this past summer I was shooting with a friend at a tournament. He had one of those new whiz-bang-metal-riser-adjustable-everything-can-shoot-5gpp-no-problem recurves. He was shooting super light arrowsand that was his argument as well. With that ultra-fast setup, yardage estimation wasn't as crucial--or so he thought. He was probably getting 20-25 fps better speed than I was with my longbow and wood arrows--maybe more. He's a dang good shot too, within his range. Anyhow, some of the targets were a bit further than he was used to--further than I normally practice for too. I think he hit one out of a half dozen or so, the rest he shot under. I'm no Robin Hood, but I hit all of them.

Not exactly a controlled test, but plenty of proof (several shots worth) that even comparably super fast set-ups won't cover always cover even minor yardage estimation goofs.

I'm with Arthur here--if you aren't sure, don't shoot, and don't rely on gadgets to cover your shortcomings. Get out and practice--that works better than any gadget or gimmick.

Chad

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

Lets not get too technical, Way too light arrows vs easton xx75's

Id go with the aluminums!

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

Chad - what works for some does not for others.
I am not advocating light - just don't feel 8gr/lb is light - not for me - could be others.

I do go lighter for 3d - not to extend my range but to cover for the minor mistakes in unconcious yardage judging(my style) that happens every round.

I'm with you both as well - not sure means NO SHOT!

Steve

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

As I explained to you a few times when you were pimping DAS and thinking metal risers are traditional, your going to have to find your own way. There is nothing to gain on showing your where you are wrong.

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

8 gpp isn't "light" as far as the bow is concerned, and it wouldn't bother me to shoot 8gpp from my longbow ('course if I hunted with a 40# bow, I'd want an arrow that weighed a good bit more than 320 grains). If it works for you, I have no argument.

My point was simply that going lighter with arrow weight is not going to make a real difference in trajectory at reasonable hunting distances, but that's the argument that a lot of folks use. If you like it and it works for you, you don't need an excuse to justify it for others.

I like to discuss and debate the positives and negatives of different set-ups, but all to often things get thrown in that aren't relevant, and that can get folks that are just starting out going down the wrong path.

I wind up with arrows that are 9-10 gpp, simply because that's what my arrows weigh with a 125 grain point. They work great for me. I gave the experience with my friend so there would be no question of personal bias. My experience shooting lighter arrows had the same results--20-30 yards and in, light arrows made no noticeable difference in trajectory vs. moderate weight arrows. I'm sure there would be more of a difference in 6 gpp vs 15 gpp at a shorter distance, but there's not many folks that shoot that light, or that heavy, or at long distances.

Again, my main concern here is getting someone new to the sport accurate information. If you are shooting at targets at 80 meters, lighter arrows do offer an advantage. If you are shooting at a whitetail at 15 yards, they don't. If you are shooting at really big game, lighter arrows are a disadvantage, at least to every un-biased test report I've read.

Chad

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

Weaker still - obviously don't have an answer.
If you did, you would share - even if I am to dense or modern to get it, then you could at least educate those without your vast knowledge base and expertise.

And risers made in the style of what Fred Bear and others where making before the advent of compounds and before you aquired the title of "traditional decider" are not "traditional?
That's too funny. Can you point me to the source of your definition of "traditional"? I am newer then most whose opinions I value -have only been at recurves and longbows 8 years. I must have missed somewhere where the official definition.
Help me out - remember though, I am a relative newcomer and dense to boot.
But I have noticed in my short time, that most who have been at this much longer then us don't seem to worry much about definitions or what others shoot.

Steve

PS - I don't remember our exchange you refer too - either I was not impressed or I embarrased you?
Is that why you are making this personal?

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

For a while about 20 years ago, I was shooting a longbow with arrows that were around 5.6 grains per pound and never had any problem with penetration. Of course, those arrows were full length 2419's and weighed 670 grains. I'll let you do the math.;)

It wasn't long after that I went to 55 pounds for all my traditional bows and used arrows around 560 grains for all my shooting. Since then, I've gone as low as 450 grains, but have never liked the way my bows feel with that arrow weight. If I had those same light arrows now, they'd be rigged with brass inserts and 200 grain points to get the weight up, and have the bonus of a big bump in FOC.

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

120 pounds. Wow.

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

teveBNY thats right were do you start traditional when Fred Bear was alive are before that with the native people. When fred was alive there were sights, releases ads,over draws,wood arrows, But in the earlyer Fred Bear years there was no aluminums or carbon arrows, no screw in points, vanes, take down bows, compounds bows and so on. Fred and people like him came up with things like that to make hunting better. How about using the pod to make every hit count and less game lost. Some in states at that time you could use it to reduce game lost in there state. Are should it be a little short bow that only shoots a arrow about 30 yard with a rock head and follow your game for days tell it's dead, boy you realy have got to be close or a long bow with wood arrow with a medal head, are a bone or a horn bow that pulls 150 lbs. I have always wanted to know were it starts. It must be after the compound with the thing I see people shooting with space age glues thats in there bows, fast recurves, carbon arrows, new carbon camo, tree stands, DB ground blinds, a new 4 wheel drive truck, 4wheelers on and on. If any thing I'm traditional been around shooting almost 45 year now. The compound has been around longer than I have shot archery. I have talk to Fred twice before he passed on and sat down and had a good talk with him about hunting and he told me some good hunting stories. Once I shoot a 75 lb long bow with tapperd wood arrow and I thought the penetration sucked on two of deer I took with it, only once did it penetrate really good as it shot a broken arrow through my hand.

RE: Is my set up adequate for whitetail?
 

What in the world are you talking about? As Isay again, your going to have to make that decision. You can't go your whole life living it for other peoples thoughts. I am just an internet poster. You shouldn't live and breath what people say off the internet begging them to make up your mind for you. Nothing personal about it. I just know you have been pushing high tech recurves for years now, because you shoot them and seem to need validated. You have been the first to jump up and yell when someone doesn't accept your bows as traditional. When honestly, you shouldn't need validated so much. I mean your a grown man.