Are Carbon arrows traditional?
11-22-2002 | 12:01 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 37
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From: Newark DE USA
Are Carbon arrows traditional?
The idea of shooting carbons on my lighter draw weight longbow has been working on my mind. I know that in the IBO Trad LB division anything other than wood is forbidden. But, at fun and club shoots I see a ton of longbow shooters shooting 3 fingers under and carbons. These shooters are scoring very well and for me 3 fingers under sighting down the shaft is 100 times easier to shoot with pinpoint accuracy than split finger and instinctive or gap shooting.
I see threads on longbow hunters using carbons and there is little doubt that carbons have several advantages over the other shaft materials out there. What does the board think of traditional equipment launching high tech shafts?
I see threads on longbow hunters using carbons and there is little doubt that carbons have several advantages over the other shaft materials out there. What does the board think of traditional equipment launching high tech shafts?
11-22-2002 | 12:15 AM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,994
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From: egypt
RE: Are Carbon arrows traditional?
Man the arrow dynamic tapered shafts fly great off my crusader but man I love my wood!
Heck shoot what ya want, thats my saying anyways, its the hunter, not his equipment that makes him what he is!
Heck shoot what ya want, thats my saying anyways, its the hunter, not his equipment that makes him what he is!
11-22-2002 | 03:29 AM
#3
Fork Horn
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 373
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From: Anchorage, AK
RE: Are Carbon arrows traditional?
Dan what kind of arrow dynamics do you shoot I was thinking about getting some of the trad arrow but heard that they were way to stiff in spine. The trad lights would be ok but the company says they are for lighter weight bows and kustom king says they are for 60-70lb bows. I would love to just get one to try out but where do you get one arrow, and 100 bucks a dozen is a lot for a leap of faith.
11-22-2002 | 08:49 AM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,231
Likes: 0
From: Montgomery IL USA
RE: Are Carbon arrows traditional?
<font color=red>"What does the board think of traditional equipment launching high tech shafts?"</font id=red>
Doug Easton put the first aluminum shafts on the market in the 30's. This was before they even had glass laminations on bows.
Back in the 60's, fiberglass arrows were very popular (Micro-Flite, for example).
In summation, there's nothing "untraditional" about carbon arrows. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
JRW
Doug Easton put the first aluminum shafts on the market in the 30's. This was before they even had glass laminations on bows.
Back in the 60's, fiberglass arrows were very popular (Micro-Flite, for example).
In summation, there's nothing "untraditional" about carbon arrows. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
JRW
11-22-2002 | 09:57 AM
#5
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 37
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From: Newark DE USA
RE: Are Carbon arrows traditional?
JRW....I can't disagree with your comments but if carbon arrows are OK then why do organizations like the IBO mandate wood arrows in the traditional longbow class. To me, it appears as if the organization is not representing the mind set of it's members if truely they feel carbon arrows are acceptable.
In the same thought why a split finger release? 3 under sighting down the shaft is far easier and in most cases promotes greater accuracy (thus better shot placement on game...which is exactly what all archers want). Shouldn't a longbow class be just that? Why invoke other resrictions that could adversly affect the best possible shot placement the archer is capable of presenting.
I am sure you have seen many ex-compound shooters who were terrible with that equipment come to the traditional ranks hoping that poor accuracy will be more accepted in the traditional ranks. This shouldn't be anyones opinion of traditional archery though it runs rampant in the overall archery community. Shot placement is everything and the responsibility of all hunting archers. If organizations are supposed to represent us set up classes that adversely affect an archers maximum accuracy potentials isn't something wrong with that? Just a thought.
Could it be that in some way traditional archery is defined by some as they way Howard Hill or Fred Bear shot? Both excellent archers who did much for the sport, but the methods and equipment they used were the high end of technology for their time. Archery had a history thousands of years prior to these great archers. Is traditional archery locked into that specific time frame alone in the way we define the sport? Seems to be by the way organizations define our classes.
I'm really not sure myself as to where the lines should be drawn. I enjoy my longbows and cedar shafts but see carbon as the current most accurate efficient arrow on the market. I just thought I would start some conversation on this topic and see where it progressed.
Edited by - Jim DE on 11/22/2002 11:25:47
In the same thought why a split finger release? 3 under sighting down the shaft is far easier and in most cases promotes greater accuracy (thus better shot placement on game...which is exactly what all archers want). Shouldn't a longbow class be just that? Why invoke other resrictions that could adversly affect the best possible shot placement the archer is capable of presenting.
I am sure you have seen many ex-compound shooters who were terrible with that equipment come to the traditional ranks hoping that poor accuracy will be more accepted in the traditional ranks. This shouldn't be anyones opinion of traditional archery though it runs rampant in the overall archery community. Shot placement is everything and the responsibility of all hunting archers. If organizations are supposed to represent us set up classes that adversely affect an archers maximum accuracy potentials isn't something wrong with that? Just a thought.
Could it be that in some way traditional archery is defined by some as they way Howard Hill or Fred Bear shot? Both excellent archers who did much for the sport, but the methods and equipment they used were the high end of technology for their time. Archery had a history thousands of years prior to these great archers. Is traditional archery locked into that specific time frame alone in the way we define the sport? Seems to be by the way organizations define our classes.
I'm really not sure myself as to where the lines should be drawn. I enjoy my longbows and cedar shafts but see carbon as the current most accurate efficient arrow on the market. I just thought I would start some conversation on this topic and see where it progressed.
Edited by - Jim DE on 11/22/2002 11:25:47
11-23-2002 | 06:30 AM
#6
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
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RE: Are Carbon arrows traditional?
I haven't posted on this forum for months now, but I want to address your last post, Jim.
Don't go confusing tournament rules with common sense. The way most rules come about is the old "if you can't beat 'em, ban 'em" method. When they split the longbow off the traditional class into it's own class, wood arrows was one of the limitations. If you want to shoot carbon, then shoot the recurve class. No big deal. The rule about having to shoot split finger and not 3-under is flat stupid. No redeeming value to that one, at all.
As tournament rules go, there is a bigtime longbow tournament here each spring that requires wood arrows and there are many rules and restrictions on bow configuration. They've loosened them, somewhat, over the past few years. When they first started, about the only bow that would qualify is a Howard Hill style straight limbed bow. When everyone is shooting the same kind of arrow and basically the same style of bow, the tournament is ALL about shooting skill and not about equipment choice. That's as it should be, in my opinion.
As pointed out, Easton aluminums have been around a lot longer than fiberglass backed bows. We had fiberglass arrows in the 60's. Carbon arrows are nothing more than a fiberglass arrow made out of carbon fiber instead of glass, so they're just as traditional as fiberglass. I've seen some pretty un-traditional rationale for shooting them though. Which I'll get to momentarily.
But, what really got my goat was your mention of rotten compound shooters that switch to traditional so their rotten accuracy won't be so noticeable. I don't doubt there are a few knuckleheads that switch for that reason, but I have not seen it, myself. What I HAVE seen, quite often, is compound shooters that have been struggling with these new techno wonder, ultra short, solo cammed, fiber optically sighted, mechanically released, high letoff, semi-crossbow, compounds that have switched to traditional and are having fun again. At least they're still shooting and as long as they're shooting, they're gaining experience and, hopefully, improving their accuracy.
Gaining accuracy with any bow does not depend on the equipment so much as it does the person. If you just go out and fling arrows, you will have fun but won't improve much. Improved accuracy is the result of consistent practice with a planned purpose. Many trads are going for the fun and hoping for accurate shooting. I hesitate to say it, but many (not all, by any means, but many) of them that are shooting carbon are only shooting them because they don't want to bend or break an arrow when they miss what they're shooting at. In other words, they're shooting carbon only BECAUSE THEY EXPECT TO MISS. That's the un-traditional rationale I mentioned earlier.
Don't go confusing tournament rules with common sense. The way most rules come about is the old "if you can't beat 'em, ban 'em" method. When they split the longbow off the traditional class into it's own class, wood arrows was one of the limitations. If you want to shoot carbon, then shoot the recurve class. No big deal. The rule about having to shoot split finger and not 3-under is flat stupid. No redeeming value to that one, at all.
As tournament rules go, there is a bigtime longbow tournament here each spring that requires wood arrows and there are many rules and restrictions on bow configuration. They've loosened them, somewhat, over the past few years. When they first started, about the only bow that would qualify is a Howard Hill style straight limbed bow. When everyone is shooting the same kind of arrow and basically the same style of bow, the tournament is ALL about shooting skill and not about equipment choice. That's as it should be, in my opinion.
As pointed out, Easton aluminums have been around a lot longer than fiberglass backed bows. We had fiberglass arrows in the 60's. Carbon arrows are nothing more than a fiberglass arrow made out of carbon fiber instead of glass, so they're just as traditional as fiberglass. I've seen some pretty un-traditional rationale for shooting them though. Which I'll get to momentarily.
But, what really got my goat was your mention of rotten compound shooters that switch to traditional so their rotten accuracy won't be so noticeable. I don't doubt there are a few knuckleheads that switch for that reason, but I have not seen it, myself. What I HAVE seen, quite often, is compound shooters that have been struggling with these new techno wonder, ultra short, solo cammed, fiber optically sighted, mechanically released, high letoff, semi-crossbow, compounds that have switched to traditional and are having fun again. At least they're still shooting and as long as they're shooting, they're gaining experience and, hopefully, improving their accuracy.
Gaining accuracy with any bow does not depend on the equipment so much as it does the person. If you just go out and fling arrows, you will have fun but won't improve much. Improved accuracy is the result of consistent practice with a planned purpose. Many trads are going for the fun and hoping for accurate shooting. I hesitate to say it, but many (not all, by any means, but many) of them that are shooting carbon are only shooting them because they don't want to bend or break an arrow when they miss what they're shooting at. In other words, they're shooting carbon only BECAUSE THEY EXPECT TO MISS. That's the un-traditional rationale I mentioned earlier.
11-23-2002 | 09:03 AM
#7
Typical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 600
Likes: 0
From: California
RE: Are Carbon arrows traditional?
Hey Arthur P, it's good to see you post again.
I'd have to say that, because carbon is the basis of everything natural in our world, that you can't get more traditional than carbon.
Make em sharp and shoot em straight, or leave em home.
I'd have to say that, because carbon is the basis of everything natural in our world, that you can't get more traditional than carbon.
Make em sharp and shoot em straight, or leave em home.
11-23-2002 | 11:20 AM
#8
Fork Horn
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
From: Victoria British Columbia Canada
RE: Are Carbon arrows traditional?
Hi Jim,
Why does there need to be a line drawn in the first place? General definitions of "traditional" are of things or practices handed down from from one generation to another. For me, it's a matter of shooting the types of bows that I find appealing ('curves and, ah, them staight thingys). <u>MY</u> traditional part of archery flows from a Grandmother who always had time to whittle arrows out of the kindling pile for her two grandsons, to use on their butchers-twine strung vine maple branch bows, and from my mother who shot a takedown fibreglas longbow with skinny little aluminum arrows (which she picked up in Hawaii in the late '50s). Add to the mix a neigbour who gave me my first "real" bow when I was about 8- a Pearson "Old Hickery" which my daughter still shoots today.
That's what I base "traditional" archery on. The rest is just a preference for bent pieces of wood and fibreglas and Dyna 97 strings.
I like carbons and mess around with self nock woodies, because it's fun to make 'em.
But, my kids like to shoot so I figure I'm doing my part in fostering the "traditional" aspect of <u>my</u> family's involvement in archery.
RC
Why does there need to be a line drawn in the first place? General definitions of "traditional" are of things or practices handed down from from one generation to another. For me, it's a matter of shooting the types of bows that I find appealing ('curves and, ah, them staight thingys). <u>MY</u> traditional part of archery flows from a Grandmother who always had time to whittle arrows out of the kindling pile for her two grandsons, to use on their butchers-twine strung vine maple branch bows, and from my mother who shot a takedown fibreglas longbow with skinny little aluminum arrows (which she picked up in Hawaii in the late '50s). Add to the mix a neigbour who gave me my first "real" bow when I was about 8- a Pearson "Old Hickery" which my daughter still shoots today.
That's what I base "traditional" archery on. The rest is just a preference for bent pieces of wood and fibreglas and Dyna 97 strings.
I like carbons and mess around with self nock woodies, because it's fun to make 'em. But, my kids like to shoot so I figure I'm doing my part in fostering the "traditional" aspect of <u>my</u> family's involvement in archery.
RC