Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

I have wanted a Black Widow recurve for quite a few years and was just wondering if they are worth the money. I was planning on test driving one of their bows when i get back from Aghanistan next month. Just wondering what others thought about them. I appretiate your opinions.

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

gregory,

Thanks for your work in Aghanistan, it is much appreciated.

Just wondering if this is your first bow. If so, I'd probably point you in a different direction.

If not, then the price is really a relative thing. If you can afford, it I'd say go for it. It is a great bow. Reward yourself. If it is out of your reach, then I'm sure you could find something that is also is quality made for a lot less.

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

I've had a Black Widow longbow and it was top quality.. Made very well and shot as smooth and fast as any of the other big name bows that I've owned.... I just didn't like the handle on the longbow, so I am selling it. I'm sure the recurve will be awesome..... They have a huge following and their resale value is outstanding....


And like BobCo said, we appreciate what you do for the country so that we can sit around and talk about trad archery!!

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

it's not my first traditional bow. i have a long bow and another recurve as well as one of those bows with the training wheels on it. the money is not an issue. was just wondering what others thought about them. i like their test drive program that way i get to choose what i want and fits.

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

I have 2 Widow recurves-a 56" SA III & a 60" MA II. For me,they're the best recurves I ever shot.They're not the fastest-but they're not slouches either,not the prettiest(not my opinion-I think they're gorgeous bows),they're as dead in the hand as a bow can be,shoot right where I'm looking,have excellant resalevalue and their customer service is top-notch.I think they're worth every penny--and to be fair,their prices are comparable to Robertson,Blacktail,Morrison and alot of other top bowyers to name a few.

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

Only you can answer that question.

From one standpoint you could say "no", because they don't cost any more to produce than most any other quality bow, and should be a bit less with the labor saved by the CNC. They aren't head and shoulders above any other good bow--going strictly "by the books" (leaveing personal preferances out of it), they are very average among today's bows.

On the other hand, if it fits you and you shoot it like no other, and it won't cause you financial troubles, then it's worth every penny and then some.

My personal opinion is no, they aren't worth it to me. I've had a couple, and shot lots more. I don't own one anymore, and won't unless I just find a deal I can't refuse, and then I'd just trade it or sell it. BUT, that's just my opinion. I've shot several that some folks raved about that just didn't impress me in the least.

Resale is good, but in my experience no better than most any other bow. Sure, you can sell a used one for $500-$600, but percentage-wise it's no better than selling a $400 bow for $200-$250.

Good luck, and have fun with it!

Chad

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

You better believe they're worth it, & then some.BW recurves are a benchmark of the industry, & for good reason; they're the absolute finest American made (wooden handled) hunting bow available. And they have been since 1957.

...Just do a test drive & give one or two models a real "wringing out", I think you'll agree w/most everyone else who has shot em.

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

ya
ive got 2 now; my ma2 was a birthday present to me in 2000; its great and the service is also very good; the ma is very sooth;no stacking aor handshock;id say call them and they will help you get set up with the right bow for you

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

ya
i own 2 an ma2 made in 2000 and a psr made in 05; the bows are great to shoot and the service is first rate; i m taking my ma to africa to hunt plains game and going to the widow shooting clinic in may to meet fred asbell and to fine tune my equipment and shooting form prior to my africa trip in august; it may seem like a lot of money now but after shooting several different types of bows at my traditional archery league and dealing with the folks in nixa i d say they are definetely worth the investment;and the test drive is a great idea to get the feel for the perfect widow for you;call them and talk to them before ordering ; i m sure you will find them very helpful in getting you set up

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

I've got my asbestos drawers on, so I'll take it a step further and clarify, but first I'll say again--only you can decide if it's worth it to you, and you will have to be honest with yourself.

I stand by my statement that they are, among the better built bows today, very average. This is leaving my personal opinions out of it. Compare the speed, draw force curve, warranty,etc. to other good bows and you will see what I mean. Search around for some tournament scores, and see what kind of bows the winners shot.

There's lots of GREAT bows on the market these days. Do yourself a favor--don't get in a hurry, don't get hung up on a name or a price range,and shoot as many different ones as you can. Places like Denton Hill and Cloverdale are great for checking out lots of different bows in one spot.

I don't know for a fact, but I read recently that BW puts out less than 1,000 bows a year. That leaves awhole lot of room for "most everyone else". I know alot of traditional archers, from beginners to some of the top-ranked IBO shootersalong withsome excellent hunting archers.Most of them have shot and/or owned a BW at one time or another. Most of them don't shoot one now--I can only think of maybe 4 off the top of my head. Not because they aren't a very well built bow, there issimply no one bow that is "best" for everyone. Depends on who you ask obviously.

And again, if you pick one up and it fits you/shoots for you like no other, it's worth the money. Heck, it may be worth it to you just because you have wanted one for so long.

Good luck, and hope you have a safe trip.

Chad

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

thanks for the comments. i will definately shoot a few before i decide on what i want. i have waited this long so i am sure waiting on the right one won't matter plus i can shoot my old stuff to build back up after being gone for a year. does any other bow maker offer the test drive ? thanks again.

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

heres another opinion

Get the recurve, not the longbows. Do not get the II greybark models, they don't sell as well.

If you pay $500 for a nice Widow, you'll be able to sell it in 2-3 years for $500. They decrease very little in value, which is something you cannot say about most bows.

They are a bit heavy in the hand - I like the SA and PSA risers with 58-60" limbs best simply because of the mass weight they carry. They are smoooth shooters and accurate and you pay for the name. Pretty bows, great finish, maybe the best customer service in the industry.

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

First, reverting back to what Bob had said earlier, Thnak you very much for your dedication and livlihood.
Second, as far ad the Black widow goes...............me being as "Green" as I am about traditional shooting, I am not at all impressed with Black Widow bows..........Recurve or Longbow otherwise. That is my personal opinion. I thought they jarred my arm way to much and caused pain in the elbow after only two or three shots. That being said, I have a good friend that swore that he would never buy a Black Widow.............needless to say, he found a nice used Black Widow and purchased it........... the first week of tornament shooting.......He shot a 258 on the 3D range!!! Wow! I was impressed!.
I guess when it really comes down to it...........It's not the name or the price of the bow, but how it "feels top you" when you shoot it and HOW you shoot it.
Go with what is best for you, regardless of the name.

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

This is my 56" SA III,58#@28".My go-to bow has been a 60"Ma II,55#@28" but I've been shooting this pretty regularly for the last 2 months.

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

You should note that would be the used price, and I agree that if you keep it in good shape, you will probably get your money back in a few years--maybe make a little. However, in my experience, the same goes for any used bow, especially the better ones. The price generally drops considerably when it's labeled "used", but keep it in good condition and you won't loose money, unless you paid too much to begin with.Lots of the old bows, in good condition, will bring as much or more now than they did when they were new. Many sell for more than some new bows cost now.

Lone Wolf, I'm not doubting your experience one bit, but I can say (from my experience) that it was unusual, at least with the recurves. Like I said, I've had a couple of BW recurves and shot lots of others, and none had much shock at all. If it was a recurve you shot, there may have been a problem with it, or it was very much out of tune. If it was one of the older model longbows, they rattled my teeth too. I only shot two of those, and don't care if I ever shoot another one. I've heard the new one is much improved, but I haven't shot one yet.

Greg, there are a few others that offer a "test drive", but I couldn't name them off the top of my head. It's a great thing if they can, but some bowyers just can't get enough stock built up for such a program. My favorite is currently 6 months behind on orders, and I've never known of him being caught up. Getting to a big traditional archery tournament or redevouz is your best bet at getting your hands on a lot of different bows. You won't get to really know a bow with only a dozen or two shots, but you can weed some out like that--grips, draw force curves, etc. that you don't like.

Chad

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

I have 3 BW recurves, 1 older MA, 1 new PSA, and one older TF as well as an 05 PLX. They are wonderful and certainly the bows "I" want.

I am an ole fart at about 60 so I have had some time to dink around with what I wanted and Black Widow was it. Ya also need to know their customer service is the best.

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

Gregory,I would also like to thank you for your service toour country!
Yes, in my opinion Black Widow bows are worth every single penny that the free market has established for them.Out of all the other recurve makes that i have personally owned or shot, the SA model that i have has been the best all around shooting bow for me.That is why i had a back up bow made with the exact specs.As far as re sale goes,again for me, that is irrelevant because i only got rid of the bows i had no use for,and was not trying to make money.Test as many bows as you can, andi am sure you will find one that you will get excited about!I am sure your better bow companys and or dealerscan get you an opportunity to try theyre bows.Good luck on you decision!

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

Welcome to the board 100--always good to have another opinion to cast into the mix.

I reckon I'll have to comment on this:

I've had at least one discussion on this point alone in the past. Many ofthe "better" bowyers/dealers generally have a long list of people waiting to get a bow they have already paid a deposit on. Would it be right for them to cause that paying customer to wait that much longer so they can cater to potential customers? Or should they be working onfilling ordersthey have already gotten money down on?

I think a "try before you buy" program is a great thing if the shop can make a go of it, but implying that only the "better" stores/bowyers offer them is just flat wrong. Most of the better bows I've shot were made by one bowyer that has very little help, and a long wait--and most of them are doing the right thing, in my opinion, by taking care of paying customers first. The best that many can do is take some extras they have on hand--missed weights, cancelled orders, etc.--and spend a lot of time,money, and their weekends offtravelling to different tournaments so as many folks as possible have a chance to get their hands on the bows.

If you have any experience at all with the archery business, you knowmost stores are small operations, and even if they can get enough bows for a program without causing customers to wait, they can't afford it.Keeping $10,000 worth of bowsaround as dead inventoryfor folks to try out just isn't feasable for a lot of operations. Many stores and bowyers aren't in business to get rich--they just love the sport.

For the record, I'm speaking from several years of first-hand experience.

Chad

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

Quote:

---

I thought they jarred my arm way to much and caused pain in the elbow after only two or three shots

---

Something about that aint right. A Widow has a lot of mass in the riser, decreasing hand shock. Possibly light arrows ? Maybe a tweaked limb ? I dunno ............ just suggesting because using "Widow" and "jarred" in the same sentence is RARE

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

very nice bows but for less money you can get a bow every bit as good if not better than a BW. With that said if you like the BW then you should get the BW. I like some of their bows and some day I would like to have one just to have one!

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

Mind, did you ever shoot one of the old style longbows? Not a lot of mass, andat least one of theone-piece recurves didn't have much either. I had one of the recurves with a smaller riser--it wasn't shocky though. The two longbows I shot--both older models--rattled me to the bones. One was only 40-45# at my draw, and even with 600+ grain arrows it jarred my teeth. The fellow that owned it was no beginner--he's been shooting longer than I've been alive, and knows how to tune a bow. He didn't keep it long.

Again though, with the recurves I think it was a fluke--I've shot a lot of them, and none were bad with shock. And most people I've talked to say the new longbows are a big improvement over the old ones, especially in the hand shock department.

Chad

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

no, I though he was talking recurve Widows instead of the longbows

I suppose the SAG and those short 50's style recurves Widow makes/made could be less mass and shocky ......... I'm stuck on the SA and MA riser styles as the template for all Widows to be talked about I suppose.

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

Odd...I've owned 2 BW LAG's (the older model longbow), have shot prolly a dozen or so others, & there was no notable handshock in any of em. They weren't great performing bows, & the grip didn't fit me too good, so that's prolly a couple reasons why I don't still have em. A budd of mine shot an LAG (75# @ 28") for several yrs &won the Ky IBO State Championship 3 years running w/it. About the same time I had a run of wins at the same shoot in the recurve division w/my MA II. We both killed lots of game w/our BW'stoo, so I reckon you could say that BW bows have been very very good to us two yahoos.

Maybe my history w/ BW bows is partly why they'll always be very dear to me.

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

No idea Vic--with my luck, it's possible I got ahold of two "lemons". I never even wanted to shoot another one--my elbow just won't tolerate much hand shock anymore--even a few shots from a shocky bow gets it sore now(gettin old I reckon). One of them was 40-45 at my draw, theother was 65-70 at my draw, same arrows, and I honestly don't know that the light one wasn't worse. Kind of a moot point, since the design changed--just trying to figure it out.

Chad

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

Hmmm...I agree, must have been a double anomoly!;)

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

I didn't care for the broomstick handle in my PLX..... I'm sure there are different grip designs, but that one was horrible.... I also noticed a tad bit of hand shock.. Nothing big, but definitely more than my Schafer and Adcock, both of which are similar weights, etc....

Don't get me wrong, it's a great bow.... Just wasn't for me...... Of course I'm shooting a new bow every week, so my input is basically meaningless :D

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

BTW the PL is definitely their new design longbow, & the "X" suffixsignifies their exoticwood model. Handshock from a PL?? You're kiddin', right?[:-]

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

Ain't that some kind of fancy dessert?[&:]

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

Naaaa, it sure ain't no dessert I'm smellin'...[:'(]

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

Gregory, Black widow has been a greatcompany(BUSINESS) to deal with,for me anyway(Very Professional)a few could learn,Sure you will be pleased.Good Luck on your testing ,let us know how you make out!

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

all these comments have me anxious to get back and start my test drive. just over a week left in country before i can call and get one in the mail. i will definately take your advice and try out a few other bows as well. just have to locate some guys around the bow shop that shoot traditional ( sure some would rather me touch there woman than their bow ). i appretiate the advice and comments.

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

My PL X has no hand shock at all. That being said, I shoot right at 10gr/lb on this 51# bow, carbon and wood.

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

Black Widow are not the only bows that are expensive. Take a look at Morrison Archery, BlackTail, and Robertson. A similar looking bow called Habu is more expensive than the Black Widow.

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

There's a lot of bows in the BW price range, and some that make a BW look like a bargain. I've shot some of them--none of the ones I have shot were worth it to me, and at least a couple were pretty crappy in my hands. The price tag doesn't make the bow shoot any better or any worse.

Chad

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

I have had, owned, bought, sold, traded etc etc about all of them, some as much as $1500 (Adocck ACS with 2 sets of limbs, 3 piece TD )

Black Widows have a fantastic build as far as finish and looks. I've seen Blacktails and they're same quality IMO, Hummingbird too. Adcock bows are awesome. Morrison are really nice but I think the quality is lacking a bit - but I sure like my Shawnee. Theres a second tier of bowyers that just don't put quite the glassy, awesome finish that the top guys do - and the bow prices reflect. Not worse bows by any means, just not quite as fine or pricey.

Theres a bottom tier too just like in anything. They're the cheap bows, mass produced for the most part.

Widows are worth their money - USED. I don't think I'd ever buy a new one. Of course I'll never buy new again anyway :)for what thats worth. But a PSAX in bocote is about the prettiest dang bow built I think.

I wish Widow made a 3 piece TD longbow - they'd sellhundreds and you KNOW they'd look awesome and shoot good.

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

Mind, if I remember correctly you owned many of those bows for less than a month? I don't know what all you've had, but I'll bet you haven't owned nearly all of them. Maybe a big portion of the ones that cause a stir here and there on the boards, but even swapping once a week my bet is it would take at least a few years to cover them all. I couldn't name all of the ones I've owned, much less all the ones I've shot. I had over 30 personal bows at one time, and I know I've only tapped the tip of the iceberg.

I'm not claiming to be an expert by any stretch of the imagination, and with onlyaround 15 years of traditional archery experience under my belt, I still consider myself little more than a novice. I do know that some things took a long time to learn and understand, and I knowI cannot get a true feel for a bow with a couple hundred arrows. I can generally determine that I really don't like a bow pretty quick, sometimes without even shooting it (if I don't like the grip or the way it draws, I'm not going to like it), but really getting to know a bow takes some time. You have to get that bow tuned, figure out what string material and number of strands it "likes", silencer placement, arrow spine, etc. to see just how good it can feel and shoot.

Buying used is a great way to save a lot of money, especially with the more expensive bows, but you have to do your homework and get a bow that fits you. If you draw 26" and get a bow that was made for a 30" draw, that bow isn't going to work as well for you--or vice-versa. Another drawback is many companies (including BW) void the warranty if the bow changes hands.

Most any bow built with beautiful woods will be a beautiful bow. I really like birdseye bocote, the figured maples, and several others, but to date I haven't seen a nicer wood than Japanese Tamo Ash (with the right figure, of course).

I'm partial to accents that show some skill and grace and artistryon the bowyer's part--straight, stacked accents don't do much for me. Mike Treadaway (Black Forrest Longbows) made the most impressive one I've ever seen in that department. It was a true work of art, and the only bow I've ever seen that wasn't a collectable that, to me, was worth the $1,000 price tag--I believe he actually had that much work in it. 'Course if I'd had the money to buy it, I would have only displayed it and not shot it. Only with I'd gotten a picture of it--it was absolutely amazing.

One other thing I've noticed. The longerI'm in this sport, the more I realize just how muchI DON'T know about it.I've made thousands of strings, and I'm still learning. Not likely I'll live long enough to know even half of all there is to know about bows--but it sure is fun trying.

Chad

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

Chad - I don't know how many I've owned ......... I had 17 at one time once and realized I had a problem at that point :)

I know within a dozen shots if the bow I'm shooting is one I'd like to keep. I have small girly hands - and its not unlike a glove when I pick a bow up, draw it and shoot it. Sure, you can fine tune the bow, shoot different arrows etc etc, but a bow to me has a "feel" and some just "feel" better than others and it don't take hardly anytime at all for me to "feel" a bow out.

Example recently I bought a 3 piece Adcock off a guy, 58# bow. Mine is 52# and I was giddy to get this 58# one. Got it in, strung it and first shot I knew that bow wasn't for me. Why ? Same boywer as my 52# bow, same poundage as my Shawnee, same length as my 52# ......... but it "felt" so much differnt. I hated it to be honest. The guy I sold it to ? LOVES it. Go figure.


I just bought a Bill Stewart 1993 model Multi-Cam recurve, 2 sets of limbs. I've never shot one of those bows and decided I wanted to. I don't think I'll lose money on it. Its a 64" bow with 55# and 59# limbs. Will it "fit" me ? Who knows - I won't know until I get it in my hand.

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

You said a few things that confirm what I said.

I agree, to a point. Like I said, I know right away if I don't like the grip, the draw, or even the looks of a bow. However, a little tuning can go a long way as far as shooting. I've seen it too many times--sometimes a bow that is noisy and shocky can turn into a sweetheart with a little tuning. A dozen shots won't tell you this.

Another point made--who a bow was made for can make all the difference sometimes--even if it's the same bow, same bowyer, even the same materials, poundage, and length. Nobody can judge them all by shooting one or two.

Lol--it's addictive ain't it! Now I will say that you did "own" a lot more bows than the average person in a given amount of time, but there are no shortcuts to getting experience. I saw a post made by a fellow once where he said that he had "mastered" the longbow in something like 3 weeks? Maybe it was 3 months, I can't remember for sure, but either way it was the guy's inexperience talking--I don't care if you are Howard Hill's clone, nobody masters a longbow (or any other bow) in 3 months.

Nothing at all wrong with being confident in yourself--you will be a better archer for it--but there are some things that you just don't learn over night, or even in just a few years.

Btw, are you going to make it to any shoots this year?

Chad

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

I dunno man .......... work has this weird schedule thing going, my trips to Belize, Colorado and Kansas are going to eat my vacation up and my other time needs to be spent on the kids at the lake & camping you know ? I have been stump shooting .......... first shot the other day, 41 steps and I was 2" from busting a wood shaft against the cut end of a piece of oak which would have been fine with me ! I've been shooting the Shawnee pretty dang well .......... just need 62" or 64" limbs on it instead of those short 58" ones

I agree on the pointsyou made. Some guys like Hill style mule kicking bows, I don't. Some guys like the heavy risered Widow recurves - I don't. I've heard some guys even like this off-brand Canadian built bow called ChekMate but thats just a rumor, i don't think they really exist :)

RE: Is Black Widow Woth The Price ????
 

Bring the wife and kids with you! At the bigger shoots, especially Twin Oaks, they will have a ball--especially the kids.

Chek-Mates do exist, but they are really made by adolecent Korean kids that are working for Canadian citizenship. Once they get old enough to realize they are supposed to be getting paid, they are "let go" and replaced with new ones.:eek:

Have you tried a Cascade yet? Now THERE is a bow! Way better than that Chek-Mate crap! (although they do cost a bit more--but you get what you pay for, right?):D;)[8D]

Chad