Need a heavy arrow for hunting...advice
12-30-2005, 01:01 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Grand Island, NE
Posts: 62
Need a heavy arrow for hunting...advice
I'm new to traditional hunting and need some arrow advice. I shoot a 45# Wing recurve but have about a 29-30 inch draw so I think I am closer to 48-50 lbs. I would like to shoot a carbon arrow so that I do not have the hassle of worrying about straightness, sealing wood, etc. especially since I m just starting.
With a light draw weight, it makes sense to shoot a heavier arrow. I have some 125 grain Woodsman broadheads on a 23 grain insert that I can use.
Withfeathers, does anyone know of a heavy carbon arrow that would be suitable for this set-up? Maybe I should think about aluminum? If you could recommend a spine to start with that would be great too. I have everything I need to work with carbon because I've shot compounds for years so that's why carbon is in my head.
I like this site because of the practical experience of those of you who post. Thanks in advance for any info.
With a light draw weight, it makes sense to shoot a heavier arrow. I have some 125 grain Woodsman broadheads on a 23 grain insert that I can use.
Withfeathers, does anyone know of a heavy carbon arrow that would be suitable for this set-up? Maybe I should think about aluminum? If you could recommend a spine to start with that would be great too. I have everything I need to work with carbon because I've shot compounds for years so that's why carbon is in my head.
I like this site because of the practical experience of those of you who post. Thanks in advance for any info.
12-30-2005, 01:28 PM
#2
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Need a heavy arrow for hunting...advice
Hmmm.... Let me ponder that question for a microsecond or two...(The guys who have been around a long time already know what I'm gonna say.[8D])
Carbon Express Terminator Select, size 4560. Carbon/fiberglass composite. Much better as far as straightness, weight and spine consistency than ICS carbons in the same price range. I've also found them to be incredibly durable, much moreso than all-carbons are.
The black Terminators will weigh about 440 grains at 30" with 125 gn tips and 5" feathers. The camo Terminator Hunters set up the same will run around 485 grains. Add 23 gns for the screw-in inserts in your Woodsmans.
If you want even more weight, you can add use the Gold Tip weight system to add 50 grains on the back of the insert, thengo up to 6075 size to get the right spine. Then the black ones would weigh near 525 gns and the camo ones would be about 565 gns. Again, add the 23 grains for your Woodsman'sinserts.
Carbon Express Terminator Select, size 4560. Carbon/fiberglass composite. Much better as far as straightness, weight and spine consistency than ICS carbons in the same price range. I've also found them to be incredibly durable, much moreso than all-carbons are.
The black Terminators will weigh about 440 grains at 30" with 125 gn tips and 5" feathers. The camo Terminator Hunters set up the same will run around 485 grains. Add 23 gns for the screw-in inserts in your Woodsmans.
If you want even more weight, you can add use the Gold Tip weight system to add 50 grains on the back of the insert, thengo up to 6075 size to get the right spine. Then the black ones would weigh near 525 gns and the camo ones would be about 565 gns. Again, add the 23 grains for your Woodsman'sinserts.
12-30-2005, 02:50 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,994
RE: Need a heavy arrow for hunting...advice
That's what I'm shooting from a 45# Martin X-200 at 28", thanks to Art, who beat me to it again 
Bought mine at walmart, they're 29" from nock valley to insert, tipped with 125 grain wensel woodsmans glue on a 125 grain steel adapter. I stripped the vanes and fletched with 5.5" traditional barred HP parabolics.
I'm getting great flight from this combo.
Bought mine at walmart, they're 29" from nock valley to insert, tipped with 125 grain wensel woodsmans glue on a 125 grain steel adapter. I stripped the vanes and fletched with 5.5" traditional barred HP parabolics.
I'm getting great flight from this combo.
12-31-2005, 06:25 AM
#4
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 52
RE: Need a heavy arrow for hunting...advice
nebuckhunter,
Welcome to the word of traditional archery. You are starting out asking the right question. I build and sell longbows all over the US and Europe, and I know from experience that 85% of the people shooting a traditional bow are clueless about tuning the proper arrow to their bow.
What happens is that people get into traditional archery and then ask the question as to what arrow they should be shooting. They normally get answers like, this is what works for me, so it should work for you. I shoot with a lot of top competitors who are also clueless about parodox and what it means to arrow selection for traditional equipment.
I can not tell you how many of my customers either come by the shop or call and want me to tell them the proper arrow to shoot. Normally what I tell someone is that I will be glad to teach them how to select and tune the proper shaft, but I normally do not just tell them what shaft to choose. I apply the old addage of giving someone a fish versus teaching them to fish. If you give someone a fish they eat that day, but if you teach them to fish they eat for a lifetime.
The thing that you need to understand from the start is that spine is spine regardless of arrow material. When I say spine, I am talking about how much an arrow deflects or bends with a 2 lb weight attached to it. A 2 lb weight is the standard that is used.
For example an easton 2016 will deflect .380", which means it has a 69# spine (26/.380). A Gold Tip 3555 also has a 69# spine. If a Easton 2016, bare shafts true out of your bow at a length of 29" then a Gold Tip 3555 also at 29" will give you identical flight.
At this point you should have some questions, but this post is getting long.
If you want me to help, you can give me a call at my shop 903-586-0715 or maybe we need to start another thread. I can be a little like a watch maker in that if you ask him what time it is he will tell you how the watch is made. In explaining arrow to bow relationship I am prone to tell you the laws of physics not to impress or anything like that, but let you know that I am not giving information based on myth or opinion.
Milton Callaway
21st Century Longbow
Welcome to the word of traditional archery. You are starting out asking the right question. I build and sell longbows all over the US and Europe, and I know from experience that 85% of the people shooting a traditional bow are clueless about tuning the proper arrow to their bow.
What happens is that people get into traditional archery and then ask the question as to what arrow they should be shooting. They normally get answers like, this is what works for me, so it should work for you. I shoot with a lot of top competitors who are also clueless about parodox and what it means to arrow selection for traditional equipment.
I can not tell you how many of my customers either come by the shop or call and want me to tell them the proper arrow to shoot. Normally what I tell someone is that I will be glad to teach them how to select and tune the proper shaft, but I normally do not just tell them what shaft to choose. I apply the old addage of giving someone a fish versus teaching them to fish. If you give someone a fish they eat that day, but if you teach them to fish they eat for a lifetime.
The thing that you need to understand from the start is that spine is spine regardless of arrow material. When I say spine, I am talking about how much an arrow deflects or bends with a 2 lb weight attached to it. A 2 lb weight is the standard that is used.
For example an easton 2016 will deflect .380", which means it has a 69# spine (26/.380). A Gold Tip 3555 also has a 69# spine. If a Easton 2016, bare shafts true out of your bow at a length of 29" then a Gold Tip 3555 also at 29" will give you identical flight.
At this point you should have some questions, but this post is getting long.
If you want me to help, you can give me a call at my shop 903-586-0715 or maybe we need to start another thread. I can be a little like a watch maker in that if you ask him what time it is he will tell you how the watch is made. In explaining arrow to bow relationship I am prone to tell you the laws of physics not to impress or anything like that, but let you know that I am not giving information based on myth or opinion.
Milton Callaway
21st Century Longbow
12-31-2005, 05:28 PM
#5
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Need a heavy arrow for hunting...advice
I can be a little like a watch maker in that if you ask him what time it is he will tell you how the watch is made. In explaining arrow to bow relationship I am prone to tell you the laws of physics not to impress or anything like that, but let you know that I am not giving information based on myth or opinion.
01-01-2006, 12:37 PM
#7
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississippi USA
Posts: 15,296
RE: Need a heavy arrow for hunting...advice
Alright fellers--there seems to be no love lost between you two, but this isn't the place for it.
Milton, I know you can shoot. I've seen you a few times, and I know some of the guys that shoot with you at the big tourneys. I also know that Art has helped out countlessarchers on this forum and others,and he isn't an "internet expert"--he's been in this sport many years and we are lucky to have him here. I may not always agree with him, but I trust him to be honest with his opinions based on his experiences.
Everyone has their own opinions and experiences, and these forums are for sharing them POLITELY. If you don't agree with one or another, that's fine--just play nice. Personality clashes need to be kept private.
Thanks, and hope everyone has a Happy New Year!
Chad
Milton, I know you can shoot. I've seen you a few times, and I know some of the guys that shoot with you at the big tourneys. I also know that Art has helped out countlessarchers on this forum and others,and he isn't an "internet expert"--he's been in this sport many years and we are lucky to have him here. I may not always agree with him, but I trust him to be honest with his opinions based on his experiences.
Everyone has their own opinions and experiences, and these forums are for sharing them POLITELY. If you don't agree with one or another, that's fine--just play nice. Personality clashes need to be kept private.
Thanks, and hope everyone has a Happy New Year!
Chad
01-01-2006, 03:24 PM
#8
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 49
RE: Need a heavy arrow for hunting...advice
Alrighty,
The selection of an arrow depends on a number of variables.
Draw weight.
Spine of the shaft.
Draw length.
Arrow length.
Shaft diameter.
Point weight.
Arrow Weight.
Centreshot of the bow.
Release (form) of the archer.
And so it goes...
You need to integrate all of these factors in order to get even an approximate idea of which spine arrow to use.
In addition you also need to consider the recovery speed and inertia of the various materials used to make arrow shafts. Carbon does NOT behave like wood, which does not behave like aluminium.
Silly little example- my CM Thunderbird (47#"28) loves 40/45 5/16" cedar shafts with 100gn points. But stick a 125 gn point on that or a 45-50 5/16" POC shaft, and we're going downhill.
I could tune the bow to the shaft, but considering the fact that I see nowt but feather on the favoured setup, I'll stay where I am for now.
Point is, you can't predict which arrow will work best for a particular bow without seeing all three in action.
Bear this in mind next time you advise someone on arrow selection.
The selection of an arrow depends on a number of variables.
Draw weight.
Spine of the shaft.
Draw length.
Arrow length.
Shaft diameter.
Point weight.
Arrow Weight.
Centreshot of the bow.
Release (form) of the archer.
And so it goes...
You need to integrate all of these factors in order to get even an approximate idea of which spine arrow to use.
In addition you also need to consider the recovery speed and inertia of the various materials used to make arrow shafts. Carbon does NOT behave like wood, which does not behave like aluminium.
Silly little example- my CM Thunderbird (47#"28) loves 40/45 5/16" cedar shafts with 100gn points. But stick a 125 gn point on that or a 45-50 5/16" POC shaft, and we're going downhill.
I could tune the bow to the shaft, but considering the fact that I see nowt but feather on the favoured setup, I'll stay where I am for now.
Point is, you can't predict which arrow will work best for a particular bow without seeing all three in action.
Bear this in mind next time you advise someone on arrow selection.
01-01-2006, 09:54 PM
#9
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississippi USA
Posts: 15,296
RE: Need a heavy arrow for hunting...advice
One other thing I can think of that folks seem to often overlook--proper nock fit. A nock that fits too loose is easy to get a dry-fire with; one that fits too tightly can bugger your arrow flight and no amount of tuning will correct it.
Chad
Chad
01-02-2006, 10:54 AM
#10
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 52
RE: Need a heavy arrow for hunting...advice
Jakes,
I hate to break it to you but you are incorrect. You can predict which arrow is going to fly out of your bow if you know what deflection/spine weight tunesout of your bow.
Feathers and steel behave differently but one pound of feathers equals one pound of steel.
An arrow regardless of material that deflects the proper amount will go through the parodoxial nodes of bending and clear the bow. The same will be true for any arrow material with the same amount of deflection.
You are correct that there are several variables that go into selecting an arrow shaft that will tune properly. That is the reason an answer such as "it works for me, it will work for you" does nothing but mislead.
I hate to break it to you but you are incorrect. You can predict which arrow is going to fly out of your bow if you know what deflection/spine weight tunesout of your bow.
Feathers and steel behave differently but one pound of feathers equals one pound of steel.
An arrow regardless of material that deflects the proper amount will go through the parodoxial nodes of bending and clear the bow. The same will be true for any arrow material with the same amount of deflection.
You are correct that there are several variables that go into selecting an arrow shaft that will tune properly. That is the reason an answer such as "it works for me, it will work for you" does nothing but mislead.