Shorter ATA Bows?
 

I'm kind of new to the whole bow thing and am getting conflicting advice from the 5-6 obw people at the proshops I have gone to ranging from things from cam style to loops to brace heights and a whole bunch of other things. Most of these I really feel have to do with they are trying to sell me one brand over another or convince me that the brand tehy sell is the best. I can pretty much pick apart that pretty easy. What I am having a hard time over is ATA stuff. I have one guy telling me that at 6 feet I shouldn't even consider a bow under 34 ATA which knocks a lot of bows out there and I have another couple guys telling me that the bows with the parrel limbs tend to be a bit more stable even at shorter ATA's because their riser is longer. Is there anything to this or is this just a sales man trying to make a sale? I am not experienced enough to really tell much when I test shoot a bow. Yeah, I can feel for recoil and listen to sound and see how fast it flies and how smooth it feels but the other stuff.. Is a bit beyond me. Thanks for any help.

RE: Shorter ATA Bows?
 

They are both correct. Sorry but it's true.

Taller archers usually shoot longer bows a bit better than the extremely short bows. At long draw lengths of 30+ inches the string angle becomes very extreme at full draw.

Yes the longer riser bows do put more weight out farther from the bows center which makes them more stable then they use to be.

Another thing I have noticed about very short bows is that the serving tends to wear a bit fast where it rolls over the module. The shorter the bow the more extreme the angle to the cable slide it and this causes it to rub the side of the module when it is drawn back rather than tracking more centered in the groove.

RE: Shorter ATA Bows?
 

Basically a "ditto" on what bigbulls stated...if you are looking for more reassurance. At 6'4" inches with a 31 inch draw length I can shoot a short bow relatively accurately but longer bows make it much easier to make a mistake or two here and there in your shooting form (assuming all else remains equal).

One thing to consider though...height does not always dictate draw length. I can think of several occasions where archers over 6 feet tall were shooting draw lengths of under 29 inches. With a 29 inch or longer draw length I would probably suggest not going shorter than 33 to 34 inches.....35 or 36 would even be better....assuming average shooting ability.

Hope this helps.

RE: Shorter ATA Bows?
 

Good advice so far. I might only add that I've been around the block a few decades, shooting compounds for 30+ years, staff shooter for almost 12 0f them, so I know what works better and what doesn't. To that end I am 5'8" tall, shoot a 27.5" draw and the bows I choose to shoot are NEVER less than 35" ATA, and usually closer to 38". As the guys said, string angle at full draw means something.

As for side torque from the cable guard, try shooting a Martin X-system, and watch the torque go away.

RE: Shorter ATA Bows?
 

Well, that makes a lot of sense. It really does. I am really beginning to doubt that my draw should be 29 inches but when I had one proshop measure me they used a longbow type thing with a arrow on it and had me pull back until I got to the proper anchor point on my jaw with the nock and they say it should be 29". But I just had my wife measure my armspan and if I do the divide by 2.5 method that Huntersfriend mentions on their website than I am really a 28 as my arm span is only 70.25 inches (And I grew up as a long armed kid. Guess they stopped growing shortly before I did). I really need to go someplace and shoot a couple 28 inch bows and see what they feel like. What makes me think this is that the 29 has always felt a bit longer than I would like but I keep getting told that it is right...hmm. Maybe time to trust my instincts on this. I am not worried about loosing speed as if I can't shoot straight enough because the draw is too long I will just be missing my target faster.

As far as the ATA thing I will say the long riser bows that were in the 31-33 range felt more steady than the long arm 35 inch bow I have. Well the Defender was hard to tell on but the others were just so much more steady. I am probably 2-3 months away from actually buying a bow I am just trying to get some input from people not trying to sell me something.

RE: Shorter ATA Bows?
 

I am over 6' & have a draw length of 30". Any bow with an ATA shorter than 35" dosn't feel right to me. Generally as stated above taller archers in my opinion should try to use a little longer ATA bow. I think your shooting will be better if you go with the longer ATA bow.

RE: Shorter ATA Bows?
 

IL Rancher, seems to me you are going about this the right way. Take your time and shoot a lot of bows. And "good for you" in determining a drawlength. There are many that will say to draw the old recurve in the bow shop and see what you get. You did this. The problem is that often times the person helping you does not even know when to tell you to stop drawing or doesn't want to offend you. And that's the problem with that method. How is a person that doesn't know how to determine drawlength going to help someone that doesn't know how to determine their drawlnegth? The thing to take into account is that if you felt think that 29" felt too long for you then it most likely was. Absolutely, because archery is a lot about "feel".

And I imagine you're learning other things as well. The ATA issue is another one. Considering your height I'd say you can shoot anything down to about 34" well, with 36" to 38" being a bit easier. Riser/limb design all come into play. That's why general statements never cover everything.

RE: Shorter ATA Bows?
 

I am also a staff shooter and I agree that you should stick with a longer a-a bow(37" to 40").Especially since you are new to the sport.I would also suggest a brace height over 7 1/2" with a moderate reflex or a deflex riser.A hoyt Protec would be a fine choice imo.This is my bow of choice for 3-d.


As far as the wingspand method of checking draw length.I have yet to see it be right for anyone I know.I myself am drawing about a 1 1/4" longer than that method if memory serves me right.I have been coached a little by a friend that has coached world champions and he says my draw length is good at 28 1/2" to 29" and I am 5' 9 1/2" tall(I do have long arms).I shoot much better at 28 1/2 so I am confident this is my draw with a loop.If you were checked with the bow in hand and were comfortable with the anchor,I would say the 29" is pretty close but can't say for sure because I wasn't there.

RE: Shorter ATA Bows?
 

I have two thoughts on my draw length right now. 1) When I did the longbow thing the tech told me to pull back a little further than I was. I wasn't anchored right and that brought me upt to 29 in his opinion. He may or may not be right. Some 29 draw bows feel great to me. Others don't. My current bow at 29 is too long but I think that has more to do with a spongy back wall on the Parker Buck Hunter. It seems to want to give a little bit more at full draw. Bugs the heck out of me sometimes.

2) I just went and shot and there was a pretty good shooter there who watched me shoot for about 30 minutes and gave me some pointers. He THINKS my draw might be 1/2 inch too long and that I might be better at a 28.5. I was doing some torquing and he showed me a different grip and worked on a few other things and before long I was shooting a lot better. Than, I got stupid and shot a Darton Avalanche that the shop had. At 29 inches it felt perfect. Damn thing shot X's for me at 20 yards after getting it sighted in. Maybe it was the lesson but the bow was a lot more stable in my hand. Little larger brace height but a little shorter ATA. Also a heavier bow. Liked it a a lot. Nicer handle than the Parker and better balance... Damn..

As far as being new to the sport, the harder thing right now is that I shot a lot as a kid about 15-20 years ago. And I have some real bad habits from back than that for some reason come back to get me at times. Just need to retrain the muscles and the eyes to do what I want them to do. Low brace heights have driven me away from more than one bow so far. No arm slapping or anything like that but anything below 7 is just, well I have my torquing issues.

You are right, I am going to keep shooting different bows until I find the one that I like and that fits all my needs. At 10 bows shot now I know which ones are my favorites and which ones, ehhh, were not right for me. There are at least 4 more bows that I would like to shoot before I make up my mind and chances are I will be picking two bows in the end. I have really like 3 bows that I have shot now and if I had to choose between the three it would be easy right now which one I would choose. But there are more bows to shoot and I need to go back and shoot the ones I liked to make sure I like them still. You have to make sure you are comparing a to b and not a to c and c to b. Oh well, the quest continues.

RE: Shorter ATA Bows?
 

IL Rancher, You have to love the Darton's. It's a comonly overlooked bow. I was sold on the Avalanch being the bow for me next season. Great shooting bow. Well for 2005 Darton has come out with the all new Tempest Extreme. Now it's back to the shop to shoot this one when they come in. It is the same style with a slightly longer axle to axel, but gives up only 1/4 inch brace. Check out their web site for specs. Darton Archery.com They have just now switched over to 2005 models. I would assume you could not go wrong with either one. After shooting my 2004 Darton storm very well . I guess I am starting to really like the Dartons.

RE: Shorter ATA Bows?
 

Lets just say I did something stupid/smart? and traded my Parker in for the Darton after shooting it again this morning. The dealer gave me such a good deal on both that I couldn't say no. I just couldn't. I lost only 50 bucks on the parker on my trade (Since it is so dang new) and I got the Darton for much less than I have seen it other places. I couldn't turn it down. Not to mention that it was the bow I wanted to buy back when I bought the parker which made it an easy decision in the end. Probably should have bought the Darton back than but....

It is not the fastest bow in the world or the smoothest of those that I shot but something about the way it felt in my hand and how well I shot with it compared to the bows that were 200 dollars more just made the decision pretty easy. Oh well, probably foolish to jump in like I did but I think it was the right choice for me right now. I guess what it all boils down to is that it felt right in my hands and that is all that matters.

RE: Shorter ATA Bows?
 

Sounds likeyou are having some fun, and learning in the process. That's good. One thing not often mentioned, and I forget it myself, is that you can NEVER take for granted that the drawlength as stated on the limb tag of any bow is right. Most bows will draw longer than they are marked. You have to physically measure the bow in your hand to see what it is. That may be a big reason that brand A bow at 29" feels just like brand B marked 28".

And from a personal standpoint "Darton is certainly an overlooked company". There are lots of bowmakers besides Mathews, Hoyt, and Bowtech.

RE: Shorter ATA Bows?
 

Well, after a little tweaking today with the bow (Had to adjust the site a little bit) I was shooting just perfectly again. A few things are helping with it so far I think. 1) As a heavier bow it just sets better in me hand and holds steadier. I don't often have to hike more than 3-400 yards and usually it could be shorter than that if I like so an extra 8 ounces isn't going to kill me. 2) The new site I put on has a level and I was canting my bow a wee bit. By not doing that I am shooting better. I am not perfect with the bow but I would say that my groups are 1-2 inches tighter than they were and I am much more consistent. It is anchoring better and I think the draw length might be 1/2-1 inch shorter than the old one. (they both are officially 29 but....).

I have tons of fun shooting bows and looking at them and I will probably be looking again soon enough. I don't think I will be parting with this bow though because it shoots so well for me and it feels right. My local shop just started carrying Dartons last fall to replace Champions and there is a lot of interest in them. I think people are seeing them as a lot of bang for your buck.

The other "smart" thing I did for myself was just buy a 60 pound bow because, lets face it, my shoulders will thank me in the future and I wasn't shooting my old bow past 64 anyways. Bows shoot better at full weight I am told soo I am glad I went that route.

RE: Shorter ATA Bows?
 

As BGfisher says, definitely measure the actual drawlength of the bow. Most are longer than stated. With your wingspan, I would guess 29" is quite a bit too long for you.

I've found that I prefer a certain ATA to get the string hitting my nose at the anchor I use. Any longer or shorter and I can't hit all three anchor points. I've found it to be very important for my accuracy to have all three anchor points. For me, it's the string on tip of nose (with head held vertical), kisser button in corner of mouth and index knuckle tucked under cheek bone. I don't use a peep and when you shoot without one, anchors are critical.

On the flip side, I do know some very long-draw hunters who prefer a really short bow because they strictly hunt out of treestands and like the increased maneuverabilty they get in the tight shooting quarters they have in their stands.

RE: Shorter ATA Bows?
 

Well, I am told the current bow is 29 inch draw and it just touches the tip of my nose perfectly. I will have to measure it obviously to know for sure what it is set at. I would probably be better served by someone other than my wife measuring my arm span as well since she is just a wee bit shorter than me and had a real hard time. Also, to be honest I am more arm than chest and back in that measurement as I am not a heavy built guy. That is probably why the formula fails for somepeople is it can't take into account how long peoples arms are and how wide their backs are.

That all being said I obvioulsy am open to not being a 29 and will probably tweak and mess around with my drawlength over the next 30 years or so everytime I buy a bow because there really is no standard of how the draw is determind on a sale bow. The Cam on the Darton is adjustable down and up quite a bit and that was another reason I bought it because we could experiment with draw length a little bit. As far as I can tell though it is anchoring perfectly and that peep is always right where I need it to be and I am shooting pretty darn good with it.

A lot of guys taller than me are shooting 31 inch bows around here but some are pulling away from them now because they are just to hard to shoot. The only time they say they miss them is when hunting in a ground blind. Now other people look at me like I'm crazy when I told them I stayed away from a couple bows because they were microbows becasue they couldn't ever imagine going back.

Edit: Turns out I am a moron. On closer inspection the bow is set at 28.5.