Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
09-02-2002, 06:52 AM
#22
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Chesapeake VA USA
Posts: 135
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
I too am extremely please with the 2 Merlin bows that I have -- a Max2000 and a Supernova. Everything said about these bows is right on the money. The craftsmanship is heads and tails above anything else I have seen. I am really liking my Supernova -- it is a fantastic feeling bow to draw aim and shoot. It is the smoothest bow I have ever pulled. Now the guys who have grown accustomed to that harsh draw cycle and high let-off of most bows out there today and think it is smooth would have to get used to something like this, but it is a pleasure to draw.
Not only are the bows extremely well made, but the customer service from both Merlin and Pinwheel 12 are top notch. Anything you need is taken care of instantly. You can usually have an answer from a question in less than 1 day, and often the same day, and sometimes within minutes, if they are on line.
Not only are the bows extremely well made, but the customer service from both Merlin and Pinwheel 12 are top notch. Anything you need is taken care of instantly. You can usually have an answer from a question in less than 1 day, and often the same day, and sometimes within minutes, if they are on line.
09-02-2002, 08:40 AM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
[quote]
"I can tell you that twin cams are more tunable than solos, and usually much more forgiving for the average archer, contrary to the "big trend" and popular belief that is being force-fed to most archers today"
[quote]
I'm shooting a Hoyt Ultratec w/command cams , so I can honestly say we do agree on something!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
[img]http://www.whitetails.com/00deer21.gif">
"Nocked,cocked & ready to rock"
Edited by - bowfanatic on 09/02/2002 14:12:15
"I can tell you that twin cams are more tunable than solos, and usually much more forgiving for the average archer, contrary to the "big trend" and popular belief that is being force-fed to most archers today"
[quote]
I'm shooting a Hoyt Ultratec w/command cams , so I can honestly say we do agree on something!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
[img]http://www.whitetails.com/00deer21.gif">
"Nocked,cocked & ready to rock"
Edited by - bowfanatic on 09/02/2002 14:12:15
09-02-2002, 08:59 AM
#24
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,413
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Bowfanatic,
In the past, my experience with twin cams was not the best. No problem with tuning and accuracy, but they were loud. I had a Darton that I just couldn't quiet down no matter how much vibration dampening stuff I put on it. My brother had a '99 Hoyt Striker II with command cams that sounded like a .22 going off. It wasn't just his bow. A friend of his, had the same bow and he finally sold it because of all the ribbing he took in a league that he used it in. If you want to know how loud a bow is, compared to others, shoot it indoors where sound is amplified.
As a hunter, quiet is very important to me and single cams seem to excell in this department. It has also been demonstrated quite well that single cams shoot more than adequately well for what most hunters need. I believe there are even a few pros doing okay with them. My personal belief is, the average archer will find a single cam with a defined stop (hard wall) more forgiving than learning to shoot the valley on a twin cam.
In the past, my experience with twin cams was not the best. No problem with tuning and accuracy, but they were loud. I had a Darton that I just couldn't quiet down no matter how much vibration dampening stuff I put on it. My brother had a '99 Hoyt Striker II with command cams that sounded like a .22 going off. It wasn't just his bow. A friend of his, had the same bow and he finally sold it because of all the ribbing he took in a league that he used it in. If you want to know how loud a bow is, compared to others, shoot it indoors where sound is amplified.
As a hunter, quiet is very important to me and single cams seem to excell in this department. It has also been demonstrated quite well that single cams shoot more than adequately well for what most hunters need. I believe there are even a few pros doing okay with them. My personal belief is, the average archer will find a single cam with a defined stop (hard wall) more forgiving than learning to shoot the valley on a twin cam.
09-02-2002, 01:11 PM
#25
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Straightarrow
I shoot indoor leagues every week and have heard just about every bow on the market. My Ultratec is'nt the quietest bow around , but it's quieter than alot of other solocams I have. As for the Hoyt striker w/command cams , I guess it depends on how you set it up , Ive heard strikers that were just as quiet as the next bow. With my ultratec , I've shot side by side with a buddy that has the Pearson 38special with no noticeable difference between the two.(The 38special made the quietest bow list).
Probably the main reason (besides accuracy) for shooting a longer ATA with double cams is the smoothness of the draw. Every year I see more and more guys sidelined from shoulder injuries and I'll deffinately avoid that scenario (knock on wood) by shooting a smooth drawing double cam bow.
Sag
Sorry for getting off topic! I may be bullheaded when it comes to sticking with my american bows , but I will say , from what I see from their website , Merlin appears to have some appealing bows.
Have they (Merlin) ever given consideration to starting up a mfg plant in the U.S?
Edited by - bowfanatic on 09/02/2002 14:19:52
I shoot indoor leagues every week and have heard just about every bow on the market. My Ultratec is'nt the quietest bow around , but it's quieter than alot of other solocams I have. As for the Hoyt striker w/command cams , I guess it depends on how you set it up , Ive heard strikers that were just as quiet as the next bow. With my ultratec , I've shot side by side with a buddy that has the Pearson 38special with no noticeable difference between the two.(The 38special made the quietest bow list).
Probably the main reason (besides accuracy) for shooting a longer ATA with double cams is the smoothness of the draw. Every year I see more and more guys sidelined from shoulder injuries and I'll deffinately avoid that scenario (knock on wood) by shooting a smooth drawing double cam bow.
Sag
Sorry for getting off topic! I may be bullheaded when it comes to sticking with my american bows , but I will say , from what I see from their website , Merlin appears to have some appealing bows.
Have they (Merlin) ever given consideration to starting up a mfg plant in the U.S?
Edited by - bowfanatic on 09/02/2002 14:19:52
09-02-2002, 03:27 PM
#26
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: In a Tarpon Boat
Posts: 846
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Bowfanatic,
It's ok that you got a little off topic.
Heck, I've been known to turn topics inside out at times, lol.
Haven't heard if Merlin ever plans to open a US plant but stranger things have happened.
I'm sure, Pinwheel 12 would be the first to know.
Sag.
It's ok that you got a little off topic.
Heck, I've been known to turn topics inside out at times, lol.
Haven't heard if Merlin ever plans to open a US plant but stranger things have happened.
I'm sure, Pinwheel 12 would be the first to know.
Sag.
09-02-2002, 05:59 PM
#27
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Rob-
The e-mail addy in my profile is correct. Should work OK. If not, you can also reach me through [email protected] just address it to me, the staff will see that I receive it. I will not be back in until Wednesday, however. I'll get back to you ASAP. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Straightarrow (and any others interested)--
The reasoning behind my comments that "twins are more tunable and generally more forgiving for the average archer" are based on a few facts as follows-- bear with me, this will take awhile to explain:
1) Twin cams are faster than solos if of the same configuration. Therefore, manufacturers have made most conventional solos with a much harsher draw cycle which stores more energy in an effort to compete with the speed of the twins. This harsher draw cycle is much harder on the archers' shoulder and back muscles, especially when they "overbow" themselves with the "false sense of ease" of the 80% let-off at the end of the draw cycle. They also cannot be tuned to as fine a degree as twins simply because they have no opposing cam to "balance-out the system". Ever get those occasional "flyers" with a conventional solo? Most everyone that shoots a solo has had them at one time or another. You simply cannot tune them out with a solo, they come from creeping slightly forward (most archers will from time to time) which rotates the single cam, and throws your shot. With twins you can "supertune" both cams and eliminate those high or low shots and have the same impact points regardless of creep or overdraw. In other words IMHO you have to work much harder to shoot a solo with the same consistency, especially when being a beginning or average archer, regardless of what you "think" you feel due to the higher let-off. Try it with an open mind and see for yourselves.
2) Most conventional solos have 80% let-off to help "mask" the harsher draw cycle they exhibit as stated above. This IMO is also detrimental to an average shooters' accuracy, because the higher the let-off, the less tension that runs through the entire system, and this lesser tension allows the archer to draw the string out of it's natural path much easier, therefore causing more left/right shots. Pros are not as apt to be bothered by this or by #1, because they know what they can safely and comfortably pull, and have superb form and shooting skills. Yes, Pros are winning with solos, but they are being paid to and are going where the money is, otherwise few would be there IMO. They also do not have any of the "form flaws" that most archers do, and thus CAN win with them. I have shot solos for quite awhile myself, but can honestly say I have never shot the scores that I do with twins. Guys like Dave Cousins say the difference between solos and twins and accuracy is that with the solo Dave can keep them in the "9", but with twins he can keep them in the "10". With something like 16 World Records under his belt, I think he knows his business, too. That same distance can be the difference between a solid double lung and a "no-man's land" shot, or the difference between a 10 and a 12 in 3D. Another interesting fact is that most of the Pros I know that shoot the solos are running 65% modules or cams in them. Ever pull a true 65% solocam? He-he, better you than me, been there and done that, no wonder I feel old! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
3) The hard-wall of the solos is now being matched by built-in "wallbangers" (stops) on alot of the twins. They are rock solid also. Moot point here.
4) Conventional Solos need to be kept in time also, contrary to the "myth" that they are virtually maintenence free. Cam rotation and nocking point height are VERY critical with them, and they can go "out" quickly with their longer string due to increased chance of slippage or stretch. This is not as much of a factor today with the better string materials/better building techiniques available, but a shorter string/cable combination is always better than a longer one regardless to take away any factor at all.(some solos admittedly have this and adjustable cam also whihc helps this) This means the average Joe will be spending more time at the shop and on the range chasing sight marks than a guy with a twin. I have not touched my Max 2000 in over 8 months since I switched over to Pro-Fusion carbons for it, the cams are still perfectly on my timing marks after thousands of shots, and it hits the X every time. None of my previous solos would touch that for that period of time without some diddling.
In fact, IMO the ONLY 2 things solos now currently have over the twins is 1)- that out of the box, they will initially hold better. This is readily rectified with twins during the tuning/setup process, and becomes a moot point if done correctly with proper stabilization and timing/tuning. Most new twins hold superbly. And 2)-- They are quieter for the most part. Out of the box, this is true and I have no arguement. Interestingly enough, a quick and correct application of cat whiskers and limbsavers will put most every quality bow made today (twin or solo) in the same class also, and is much cheaper IMHO than a doctors' bill for strained or torn muscles due to a harsh draw!
Another person said it best---"If they keep on upgrading the solocam, they'll re-invent the twin cam". I believe he may be correct! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
I don't believe this should turn into a Ford/Chevy debate over solos/twins, but kept to being about better products. However after some thought here I feel the two do go hand-in-hand, and I felt that I should clarify a few issues and offer my thoughts on why I feel twins will be a better choice overall for most archers. Companies such as Merlin, Martin, Bowman, will back up my statements 100%, and even tho they all offer solos to the World,(keeping with market "fads" and "trends", they all have to eat too) they all prefer twins across the board.(Most of the above stated will not offer solos on their top of the line models, even!) As stated above, whatever you feel comfortable with and whatever you'd like to shoot is fine with me, there are many guys shooting solos out there that love them. As long as we're all shooting, that is definately what matters most.
BUT, being a technical forum, I figured this is the place to discuss such things in a civil manner, however! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Bowfanatic--
Glad to see we can agree! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Merlin has no current plans to bring MFG to the US that I know of, but hey, how much closer can you get than England? (Canada and Mexico, maybe?)<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
The e-mail addy in my profile is correct. Should work OK. If not, you can also reach me through [email protected] just address it to me, the staff will see that I receive it. I will not be back in until Wednesday, however. I'll get back to you ASAP. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Straightarrow (and any others interested)--
The reasoning behind my comments that "twins are more tunable and generally more forgiving for the average archer" are based on a few facts as follows-- bear with me, this will take awhile to explain:
1) Twin cams are faster than solos if of the same configuration. Therefore, manufacturers have made most conventional solos with a much harsher draw cycle which stores more energy in an effort to compete with the speed of the twins. This harsher draw cycle is much harder on the archers' shoulder and back muscles, especially when they "overbow" themselves with the "false sense of ease" of the 80% let-off at the end of the draw cycle. They also cannot be tuned to as fine a degree as twins simply because they have no opposing cam to "balance-out the system". Ever get those occasional "flyers" with a conventional solo? Most everyone that shoots a solo has had them at one time or another. You simply cannot tune them out with a solo, they come from creeping slightly forward (most archers will from time to time) which rotates the single cam, and throws your shot. With twins you can "supertune" both cams and eliminate those high or low shots and have the same impact points regardless of creep or overdraw. In other words IMHO you have to work much harder to shoot a solo with the same consistency, especially when being a beginning or average archer, regardless of what you "think" you feel due to the higher let-off. Try it with an open mind and see for yourselves.
2) Most conventional solos have 80% let-off to help "mask" the harsher draw cycle they exhibit as stated above. This IMO is also detrimental to an average shooters' accuracy, because the higher the let-off, the less tension that runs through the entire system, and this lesser tension allows the archer to draw the string out of it's natural path much easier, therefore causing more left/right shots. Pros are not as apt to be bothered by this or by #1, because they know what they can safely and comfortably pull, and have superb form and shooting skills. Yes, Pros are winning with solos, but they are being paid to and are going where the money is, otherwise few would be there IMO. They also do not have any of the "form flaws" that most archers do, and thus CAN win with them. I have shot solos for quite awhile myself, but can honestly say I have never shot the scores that I do with twins. Guys like Dave Cousins say the difference between solos and twins and accuracy is that with the solo Dave can keep them in the "9", but with twins he can keep them in the "10". With something like 16 World Records under his belt, I think he knows his business, too. That same distance can be the difference between a solid double lung and a "no-man's land" shot, or the difference between a 10 and a 12 in 3D. Another interesting fact is that most of the Pros I know that shoot the solos are running 65% modules or cams in them. Ever pull a true 65% solocam? He-he, better you than me, been there and done that, no wonder I feel old! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
3) The hard-wall of the solos is now being matched by built-in "wallbangers" (stops) on alot of the twins. They are rock solid also. Moot point here.
4) Conventional Solos need to be kept in time also, contrary to the "myth" that they are virtually maintenence free. Cam rotation and nocking point height are VERY critical with them, and they can go "out" quickly with their longer string due to increased chance of slippage or stretch. This is not as much of a factor today with the better string materials/better building techiniques available, but a shorter string/cable combination is always better than a longer one regardless to take away any factor at all.(some solos admittedly have this and adjustable cam also whihc helps this) This means the average Joe will be spending more time at the shop and on the range chasing sight marks than a guy with a twin. I have not touched my Max 2000 in over 8 months since I switched over to Pro-Fusion carbons for it, the cams are still perfectly on my timing marks after thousands of shots, and it hits the X every time. None of my previous solos would touch that for that period of time without some diddling.
In fact, IMO the ONLY 2 things solos now currently have over the twins is 1)- that out of the box, they will initially hold better. This is readily rectified with twins during the tuning/setup process, and becomes a moot point if done correctly with proper stabilization and timing/tuning. Most new twins hold superbly. And 2)-- They are quieter for the most part. Out of the box, this is true and I have no arguement. Interestingly enough, a quick and correct application of cat whiskers and limbsavers will put most every quality bow made today (twin or solo) in the same class also, and is much cheaper IMHO than a doctors' bill for strained or torn muscles due to a harsh draw!
Another person said it best---"If they keep on upgrading the solocam, they'll re-invent the twin cam". I believe he may be correct! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
I don't believe this should turn into a Ford/Chevy debate over solos/twins, but kept to being about better products. However after some thought here I feel the two do go hand-in-hand, and I felt that I should clarify a few issues and offer my thoughts on why I feel twins will be a better choice overall for most archers. Companies such as Merlin, Martin, Bowman, will back up my statements 100%, and even tho they all offer solos to the World,(keeping with market "fads" and "trends", they all have to eat too) they all prefer twins across the board.(Most of the above stated will not offer solos on their top of the line models, even!) As stated above, whatever you feel comfortable with and whatever you'd like to shoot is fine with me, there are many guys shooting solos out there that love them. As long as we're all shooting, that is definately what matters most.
BUT, being a technical forum, I figured this is the place to discuss such things in a civil manner, however! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Bowfanatic--
Glad to see we can agree! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Merlin has no current plans to bring MFG to the US that I know of, but hey, how much closer can you get than England? (Canada and Mexico, maybe?)<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
09-02-2002, 07:06 PM
#28
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: pecatonica il USA
Posts: 115
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
Ok, I need some help to make a few choices. I have decided to replace my bowtech bk2 with a max2000 for 3d's. I have decided to get away from the 315fps and get into the 280fps range. Plus it will be a little longer ata and have a little longer brace height. My question is, what color should I get? What color are the pro-fusion carbon limbs? And I plan on getting the shoot through system, so whats the best drop away rest to put on it? The biggie is the color, Black, silver or platinum?
09-02-2002, 08:07 PM
#30
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: In a Tarpon Boat
Posts: 846
RE: Merlin Bows...Don't overlook them!
W.460,
To me, the silver is awesome and looks like polished chrome in person. The Profusion limbs are painted silver.
As far as the color though, you should get what appeals to you.
The ARC is by far the most popular drop-away rest for Merlin bows.
I use the Pro Tuner on both my Max and Super Nova and love it.
I truly believe the Pro Tuner is the best rest anywhere.
Ausie-Guy,
Ben Jones is already using the T wheels on his personal Max2000 and recently set a record with it.
They will definitely be available for all Max2000's in the near future.
Sag.
To me, the silver is awesome and looks like polished chrome in person. The Profusion limbs are painted silver.
As far as the color though, you should get what appeals to you.
The ARC is by far the most popular drop-away rest for Merlin bows.
I use the Pro Tuner on both my Max and Super Nova and love it.
I truly believe the Pro Tuner is the best rest anywhere.
Ausie-Guy,
Ben Jones is already using the T wheels on his personal Max2000 and recently set a record with it.
They will definitely be available for all Max2000's in the near future.
Sag.