Tried something today
12-02-2004, 07:25 PM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Martinsburg, WV
Posts: 3,215
Tried something today
Took my peep and kisser off my Liberty. First thing I noticed was how much quieter the string twang was. The second thing i noticed was how much brighter my pin was. However, after shooting a few hundred arrows today, I have yet to find a way to keep the lefts and rights consistnat. A few would go straight into the bullseye, a few more would go 6" to the left. I used to shoot without the peep and just line the string up with the side of my riser, but my eye sight has taken a turn for the worst, yet its not quite bad enough to warrunt glasses. What do you guys use to keep it consistantly in the bulls? I'm not really looking at a no-peep as an option yet, I want to k.i.s.s.
Thanks.
Thanks.
12-02-2004, 07:36 PM
#2
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: Tried something today
If you're not looking at a "No-Peep" as the answer..........well you SHOULD.
Seriously, I can shoot spot accurate to any range with nothing on my string but a string loop.
What your results are telling you is that you do not have repeatable form yet, and that will only get worse as you start shooting from trees, adding headnets, gloves etc that change your anchor and worse yet, prevent you from accurately feeling your reference points. Think about it.......you are having some difficulty in front of a target, now add in a 20ft height, a headnet and gloves and a moving animal that you are trying to determine range on. Things happen fast and bad form can happen just as quickly.
It can be done, but man does it take discipline.
I hate to sound like a commercial, but the Timberline "No-Peep" is the answer....well at least a very good answer. It's just a quick reference that's right there in your peripheral vision and it's extremely precise to any variation in form and anchor.
Seriously, I can shoot spot accurate to any range with nothing on my string but a string loop.
What your results are telling you is that you do not have repeatable form yet, and that will only get worse as you start shooting from trees, adding headnets, gloves etc that change your anchor and worse yet, prevent you from accurately feeling your reference points. Think about it.......you are having some difficulty in front of a target, now add in a 20ft height, a headnet and gloves and a moving animal that you are trying to determine range on. Things happen fast and bad form can happen just as quickly.
It can be done, but man does it take discipline.
I hate to sound like a commercial, but the Timberline "No-Peep" is the answer....well at least a very good answer. It's just a quick reference that's right there in your peripheral vision and it's extremely precise to any variation in form and anchor.
12-02-2004, 07:42 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Martinsburg, WV
Posts: 3,215
RE: Tried something today
Thanks Matt, I'll check them out. I took off everything on the string but the loop and whiskers just to fiddle around and found it to be so much more quiet, so I figured I would try and keep it bare. Granted this is the first day I've shot without it, I can honestly say I thought my form was good before. It definitly needs some work this offseason. (I'm tagged out in WV for this year's bow season). I've been using the corner of the feather as a kisser button, and my knuckle on my ear lobe as anchor points. Will the no-peep allow for any anchor I choose and will it work from elevated/contorted/twisted positions such as in a tree stand?
12-02-2004, 07:52 PM
#4
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: Tried something today
Josh,
I didn't mean to imply that you had BAD form....just not repeatable with what you are trying. It is something new to look ALONGSIDE the string vs. thru it and that takes getting used to.
The No-Peep will adapt to any anchor you choose / decide to try.....the trick is to adjust the No-Peep to your anchor, and not the other way around. You need to have something that is repeatable and comfortable before you set the unit or you will find yourself feeling unnatural using it. It doesn't take much of a form adjustment Vs. your peep sight to get it right....in fact I recommend leaving your peep in as a height reference for your form as you fine tune the No-peep. It generally just takes a slight outward rotation of your head to bring your eye in line with outside edge of your string.
You know when it is correct because you will be able to close your eyes, draw your bow and anchor, open your eyes and the No-Peep is DEAD center.
It works from any position, elevation etc, and is IMO better than a regular peep for elevated shooting because it does not allow for the form breakdown normally associated with lowering your bow arm when aiming downward. It gently forces your form into the correct position at the moment of the shot.
If and when you decide to give one a try, get in touch with me. I've set up a bunch of these on mine and friends bows and know pretty much all the tips and tricks that will help you adjust to it quicker.
I didn't mean to imply that you had BAD form....just not repeatable with what you are trying. It is something new to look ALONGSIDE the string vs. thru it and that takes getting used to.
The No-Peep will adapt to any anchor you choose / decide to try.....the trick is to adjust the No-Peep to your anchor, and not the other way around. You need to have something that is repeatable and comfortable before you set the unit or you will find yourself feeling unnatural using it. It doesn't take much of a form adjustment Vs. your peep sight to get it right....in fact I recommend leaving your peep in as a height reference for your form as you fine tune the No-peep. It generally just takes a slight outward rotation of your head to bring your eye in line with outside edge of your string.
You know when it is correct because you will be able to close your eyes, draw your bow and anchor, open your eyes and the No-Peep is DEAD center.
It works from any position, elevation etc, and is IMO better than a regular peep for elevated shooting because it does not allow for the form breakdown normally associated with lowering your bow arm when aiming downward. It gently forces your form into the correct position at the moment of the shot.
If and when you decide to give one a try, get in touch with me. I've set up a bunch of these on mine and friends bows and know pretty much all the tips and tricks that will help you adjust to it quicker.
12-02-2004, 08:30 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Indiana PA USA
Posts: 3,656
RE: Tried something today
Josh,
Matt is giving some great advice! Now, as far as not getting the No-Peep, that is still an option. If you practice enough without a peep you will get your anchor setting at the same spot consistantly and you won't even remember a peep. I still have a peep on my Liberty, but there really isn't any reason and this spring I will probablly be removing it and keeping it off!
Matt is giving some great advice! Now, as far as not getting the No-Peep, that is still an option. If you practice enough without a peep you will get your anchor setting at the same spot consistantly and you won't even remember a peep. I still have a peep on my Liberty, but there really isn't any reason and this spring I will probablly be removing it and keeping it off!
12-03-2004, 09:55 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eastern PA USA
Posts: 1,398
RE: Tried something today
Josh:
I can give you something to try that will be less costly than the no peep. If you still are not satisfied with your accuracy, you can then go and buy one. I tie a few (5-6) wraps of bright orange thread around the string. At full draw, the orange "blob" aligns with the place where the bottom of my pin guard meets the bow riser. It works well enough for me to shoot with 2-3" accuracy at 25-30 yards. I'm sure a correctly set up No Peep can do better, I will be trying mine again. My first try did not show me significantly better results than the string wrap, but I had some trouble getting it set just right, so the shooting became overly mechanical and involved. I agree about the pin brightness while shooting witout the peep sight though. My old eyes are needing that these days.[&:]
I can give you something to try that will be less costly than the no peep. If you still are not satisfied with your accuracy, you can then go and buy one. I tie a few (5-6) wraps of bright orange thread around the string. At full draw, the orange "blob" aligns with the place where the bottom of my pin guard meets the bow riser. It works well enough for me to shoot with 2-3" accuracy at 25-30 yards. I'm sure a correctly set up No Peep can do better, I will be trying mine again. My first try did not show me significantly better results than the string wrap, but I had some trouble getting it set just right, so the shooting became overly mechanical and involved. I agree about the pin brightness while shooting witout the peep sight though. My old eyes are needing that these days.[&:]
12-03-2004, 04:47 PM
#9
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: Tried something today
kyner......absolutely.
It can be frustrating to set-up, especially by yourself or the first time without a few tricks of the trade.
#1. Establish a comfortable anchor BEFORE you even mount it. My suggestion is to always leave your peep sight in (if you use one) while you set it up. If you already have your peep site out of the string, tie a piece of string, or wrap a bread tie around the bowstring in the exact place you would have your peep sight served in. Everytime you draw your bow make sure this little reference point is dead center of your sights aperture.
#2. You want the lens unit as close to your pins as possible without covering them.....and after years of using it I find mounting BELOW is the best way. Attach the bracket under your current sight bracket and tighten it down. Next find the combination of mounting holes that provide you with the closest sight picture to your pins. (The less pins you use the easier this is to accomplish)
If it's set right it should be just below and alongside your lower most pins. The closer you get to your pins the easier it is to use as a reference as you are not "Searching" for it........it will become part of your sight picture.
Here is a picture that shows pretty closely how it looks in my vision while aiming....note how close it is, but it does not obstruct the most used top 3 pins. It is very important to make it a part of your sight picture and not 'Something off to the side'.
You can even see the beginning of the circle in the lower left of the lens....
#3 The reference point in #1 is to set your height adjustment FIRST. You have to do one at a time and height is the one to start with.........if you try both at the same time just hit yourself in the head with a brick now and forget the whole thing.
Tighten the unit down just enough that you can move it slightly with finger pressure.
#4. Draw your bow as many times as necessary to get the vertical adjustment lined up.....don't worry if the dot is left or right in the circle, just get it so that the height of the dot is correct. You might have to torque the grip slightly side to side to find the circle and dot if the initial setting is far off........remember just get the dot the same height as the circle that's all for now.........We'll worry about the left and right in the windage adjustment. At this point as you are lining up the vertical, look THROUGH your string and that reference point. The height portion of your form will not change when we go to the windage adjustment so don't worry about looking down the side of the string just yet.........you can but it's not necessary. Just make sure that you use that string reference to get that height correct. THAT IS CRITICAL! or you will not feel comfortable when it comes time to shoot........you need to make the unit work to your comfortable anchor or it will feel unnatural.
#5 Once you are certain that the height is correct lock er' down.........but be careful. A little tightening at a time on each screw and don't overtighten the screws are easily stripped and they'll seat just fine.
#6. Now we go to the fun part........the windage. Here's where you will need to learn to look just down the outside edge of the string. Don't bring your head way out away, just a very slight rotation outward with your head will keep your anchor right where it belongs. If you use the string on the tip of your nose as a reference, it will now just be a bit more to the side of your nose. Don't change your form! remember in the grand scheme of things you are only moving your head a fraction of an inch VS. a string peep.
Hold the bow away from you without drawing and get a feel for which way the unit has to move to bring the dot to the center by simply torquing the handle while looking at the unit. The windage setting is very precise and a small move makes a big change, so move a little at a time. Loosen the locking screw underneath slightly and start the process.......just understand what each move means with respect to that dot, it's easy to wind up going backwards.
Draw the bow and take your normal comfortable anchor, but this time just look just down the side of your string........adjust the windage in or out until you get the dot and the circle in the same picture. When you can see both you are very close. Your height should also still be perfect.
Now keep drawing and fine tuning until the dot is in the center of the circle.......if it's close, keep playing until it's right, don't stop and say "Good enough" you will wind up torquing the grip to make it right if you do this.
You will know it's right when you can close your eyes, draw the bow and open them and that dot is DEAD center of the circle. Get used to that slight difference in head position.
You should now be able to draw your bow without taking your eyes of your pins,and that No-Peep is glowing dead center in your peripheral vision.
You are ready to lock down the windage adjustment.........and here's where guys run into problems. For some ungodly reason when you tighten the locking screw underneath down to secure the windage it can knock the windage off very slightly. After you lock it down draw right away and if it seems like the windage is now off slightly?......it probably is. You will then need to redo the windage adjustment and this time OVERSHOOT or UNDERSHOOT (I forget which?) the adjustment so that the dot is slightly off to one side of the circle.......then when you lock it down that movement you get will center the dot when secured.
That part can be a pain. Whatever you do, if it seems off after you lock it down, redo it. Don't ever settle for close enough with this thing or it won't work to it's full potential. Get it DEAD CENTER.
Don't aim with the No-Peep! Just draw and anchor normally looking at your pins........the dot/circle is just there as a reference check, and it's very very precise. If you aren't dead center letf or right you are torquing the grip a bit.........if you are a little high or low then your anchor position has changed slightly.
Only when you are sure you have your height adjustment perfect should you take off the string you have tied to your bowstring as a temporary reference.........after that string is gone you MUST trust the fact that the No-Peep is telling you where to position your hand/anchor because your now flying solo.
The windage is more string/eye/grip critical.
If you take it step by step and make the No-peep work to your anchor and not the other way around it's so simple and accurate you'll wonder how you got along without it.
If you have any specific questions give me a yell.
It can be frustrating to set-up, especially by yourself or the first time without a few tricks of the trade.
#1. Establish a comfortable anchor BEFORE you even mount it. My suggestion is to always leave your peep sight in (if you use one) while you set it up. If you already have your peep site out of the string, tie a piece of string, or wrap a bread tie around the bowstring in the exact place you would have your peep sight served in. Everytime you draw your bow make sure this little reference point is dead center of your sights aperture.
#2. You want the lens unit as close to your pins as possible without covering them.....and after years of using it I find mounting BELOW is the best way. Attach the bracket under your current sight bracket and tighten it down. Next find the combination of mounting holes that provide you with the closest sight picture to your pins. (The less pins you use the easier this is to accomplish)
If it's set right it should be just below and alongside your lower most pins. The closer you get to your pins the easier it is to use as a reference as you are not "Searching" for it........it will become part of your sight picture.
Here is a picture that shows pretty closely how it looks in my vision while aiming....note how close it is, but it does not obstruct the most used top 3 pins. It is very important to make it a part of your sight picture and not 'Something off to the side'.
You can even see the beginning of the circle in the lower left of the lens....
#3 The reference point in #1 is to set your height adjustment FIRST. You have to do one at a time and height is the one to start with.........if you try both at the same time just hit yourself in the head with a brick now and forget the whole thing.
Tighten the unit down just enough that you can move it slightly with finger pressure.
#4. Draw your bow as many times as necessary to get the vertical adjustment lined up.....don't worry if the dot is left or right in the circle, just get it so that the height of the dot is correct. You might have to torque the grip slightly side to side to find the circle and dot if the initial setting is far off........remember just get the dot the same height as the circle that's all for now.........We'll worry about the left and right in the windage adjustment. At this point as you are lining up the vertical, look THROUGH your string and that reference point. The height portion of your form will not change when we go to the windage adjustment so don't worry about looking down the side of the string just yet.........you can but it's not necessary. Just make sure that you use that string reference to get that height correct. THAT IS CRITICAL! or you will not feel comfortable when it comes time to shoot........you need to make the unit work to your comfortable anchor or it will feel unnatural.
#5 Once you are certain that the height is correct lock er' down.........but be careful. A little tightening at a time on each screw and don't overtighten the screws are easily stripped and they'll seat just fine.
#6. Now we go to the fun part........the windage. Here's where you will need to learn to look just down the outside edge of the string. Don't bring your head way out away, just a very slight rotation outward with your head will keep your anchor right where it belongs. If you use the string on the tip of your nose as a reference, it will now just be a bit more to the side of your nose. Don't change your form! remember in the grand scheme of things you are only moving your head a fraction of an inch VS. a string peep.
Hold the bow away from you without drawing and get a feel for which way the unit has to move to bring the dot to the center by simply torquing the handle while looking at the unit. The windage setting is very precise and a small move makes a big change, so move a little at a time. Loosen the locking screw underneath slightly and start the process.......just understand what each move means with respect to that dot, it's easy to wind up going backwards.
Draw the bow and take your normal comfortable anchor, but this time just look just down the side of your string........adjust the windage in or out until you get the dot and the circle in the same picture. When you can see both you are very close. Your height should also still be perfect.
Now keep drawing and fine tuning until the dot is in the center of the circle.......if it's close, keep playing until it's right, don't stop and say "Good enough" you will wind up torquing the grip to make it right if you do this.
You will know it's right when you can close your eyes, draw the bow and open them and that dot is DEAD center of the circle. Get used to that slight difference in head position.
You should now be able to draw your bow without taking your eyes of your pins,and that No-Peep is glowing dead center in your peripheral vision.
You are ready to lock down the windage adjustment.........and here's where guys run into problems. For some ungodly reason when you tighten the locking screw underneath down to secure the windage it can knock the windage off very slightly. After you lock it down draw right away and if it seems like the windage is now off slightly?......it probably is. You will then need to redo the windage adjustment and this time OVERSHOOT or UNDERSHOOT (I forget which?
) the adjustment so that the dot is slightly off to one side of the circle.......then when you lock it down that movement you get will center the dot when secured.That part can be a pain. Whatever you do, if it seems off after you lock it down, redo it. Don't ever settle for close enough with this thing or it won't work to it's full potential. Get it DEAD CENTER.
Don't aim with the No-Peep! Just draw and anchor normally looking at your pins........the dot/circle is just there as a reference check, and it's very very precise. If you aren't dead center letf or right you are torquing the grip a bit.........if you are a little high or low then your anchor position has changed slightly.
Only when you are sure you have your height adjustment perfect should you take off the string you have tied to your bowstring as a temporary reference.........after that string is gone you MUST trust the fact that the No-Peep is telling you where to position your hand/anchor because your now flying solo.
The windage is more string/eye/grip critical.
If you take it step by step and make the No-peep work to your anchor and not the other way around it's so simple and accurate you'll wonder how you got along without it.
If you have any specific questions give me a yell.
12-03-2004, 07:51 PM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ontario,Canada
Posts: 2,107
RE: Tried something today
Excellent post Matt/PA.I really think you clarified it very well.I have the no-peep and it was heck setting it up,but Now that it is,I love it.
I do have one specific question for ya though----Did you mount the no-peep bracket between the riser and site or the riser and string.I was thinking about the riser and site would be better as it would be closer to the site window.
I do have one specific question for ya though----Did you mount the no-peep bracket between the riser and site or the riser and string.I was thinking about the riser and site would be better as it would be closer to the site window.