Curious! Techies please reply.
11-27-2004, 06:31 AM
#11
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: Curious! Techies please reply.
ewolf--
If it were that simple, then one would be able to shoot most anything on the front of their shaftsand hit the same hole. However, as stated above, it is not as simple as it seems and bare shaft tuning is not the be-all, end-all of broadhead tuning by any stretch of the imagination. (been there, done that) An arrows' spine takes on a whole different personality once you introduce fletching of various length, weight, and helical, and also when you throw a broadhead on the front with more resistive surface, this also introduces physical and dynamic differences. Bare shafting is a great tool to get one close, but much like the scenario I depicted above with tuning broadheads and fieldpoints together, you cannot gain perfect tune when shooting one thing, then expecting another of differing weights and characteristics to be exactly the same. Physics simply does not allow that. Tho it MAY allow them to be close in certain instances, it will not allow them to be the ultimate for both at the same time. JMHO, Pinwheel 12
If it were that simple, then one would be able to shoot most anything on the front of their shaftsand hit the same hole. However, as stated above, it is not as simple as it seems and bare shaft tuning is not the be-all, end-all of broadhead tuning by any stretch of the imagination. (been there, done that) An arrows' spine takes on a whole different personality once you introduce fletching of various length, weight, and helical, and also when you throw a broadhead on the front with more resistive surface, this also introduces physical and dynamic differences. Bare shafting is a great tool to get one close, but much like the scenario I depicted above with tuning broadheads and fieldpoints together, you cannot gain perfect tune when shooting one thing, then expecting another of differing weights and characteristics to be exactly the same. Physics simply does not allow that. Tho it MAY allow them to be close in certain instances, it will not allow them to be the ultimate for both at the same time. JMHO, Pinwheel 12
11-27-2004, 06:53 AM
#12
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,413
RE: Curious! Techies please reply.
My view on this has changed somewhat since I've been spine testing my arrows. I've found a combination of things that have gotten superior results with my broadhead flight. Spine testing and only shooting arrows within certain specs, and then aligning the cock fletch with the stiff side has helped broadhead flight significantly. I also shoot slightly stiff spined arrows and helical feathers. When cutting arrows to lenth, I cut from both ends, test the shafts for weight tolerance, and then do the spine testing.
I've used this to tune 4 dozen arrows now, which have been shot of of 3 single cam bows (from two different manufacturers), and one hybrid cam bow. Broadhead and field tip flight has been as close to identical as we can measure (don't have a hooter shooter). The broadhead groups are certainly not hitting an inch off from the field tip groups at 20 yards. This has led me to believe that if you tune using the steps I do, that broadhead planing due to equipment, can be close to eliminated.
I've used this to tune 4 dozen arrows now, which have been shot of of 3 single cam bows (from two different manufacturers), and one hybrid cam bow. Broadhead and field tip flight has been as close to identical as we can measure (don't have a hooter shooter). The broadhead groups are certainly not hitting an inch off from the field tip groups at 20 yards. This has led me to believe that if you tune using the steps I do, that broadhead planing due to equipment, can be close to eliminated.
11-27-2004, 08:02 AM
#13
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location:
Posts: 881
RE: Curious! Techies please reply.
Pin
You have to bare shaft with the weight of point/broadhead you plan to shot, and use the fletchings you plan on using on the fletched shafts. If you change the point weight, you are not in tune anymore. As for putting anything on the front of the shaft, if it spins is will fly fine. Any wobble and it will not fly right. This is all that I do, I have never lost a broadhead shoot. Never had a bow tuned (This way) that would not shot broadheads with the field points and bareshaft. Maybe I have just been lucky but I don't think that's the case.
If it comes out of my bow straight and the broadhead is on the shaft straight and the drag of the feathers is more then the drag of the broadhead, It will fly fine.
You have to bare shaft with the weight of point/broadhead you plan to shot, and use the fletchings you plan on using on the fletched shafts. If you change the point weight, you are not in tune anymore. As for putting anything on the front of the shaft, if it spins is will fly fine. Any wobble and it will not fly right. This is all that I do, I have never lost a broadhead shoot. Never had a bow tuned (This way) that would not shot broadheads with the field points and bareshaft. Maybe I have just been lucky but I don't think that's the case.
If it comes out of my bow straight and the broadhead is on the shaft straight and the drag of the feathers is more then the drag of the broadhead, It will fly fine.
11-27-2004, 05:49 PM
#14
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: Curious! Techies please reply.
ewolf-
I understand your method and have done just that in testing, but I do not get the same results that you do, especially at distance. Same weight heads do not always fly alike, due to differing lengths of ferrule, drag on blades vs. none on fieldpoints, etc. Bare shafts and fletched shafts also do not fly into the same hole at distance, and if you try to get them both together then much like the broadhead/fieldpoint scenario as I stated previously you are taking away from one or the others' perfect tune to get that "happy medium" middleground. It thus becomes a matter of what is good enough for you as an individual. I have found that the groups of a highly tuned individual shaft/head selection will always be tighter at distance than that of a bare shaft/fletched arrow, or field point/broadhead duo trying to find that happy medium. JMHO.
If other means work for you and you are happy with the results, then no-one can say you are "wrong", anymore than anyone can say someone elses methods are, so whatever floats your boat. It boils down to logic, common sense, and confidence in the results of whatever method you use, so use what works, and good luck!
I understand your method and have done just that in testing, but I do not get the same results that you do, especially at distance. Same weight heads do not always fly alike, due to differing lengths of ferrule, drag on blades vs. none on fieldpoints, etc. Bare shafts and fletched shafts also do not fly into the same hole at distance, and if you try to get them both together then much like the broadhead/fieldpoint scenario as I stated previously you are taking away from one or the others' perfect tune to get that "happy medium" middleground. It thus becomes a matter of what is good enough for you as an individual. I have found that the groups of a highly tuned individual shaft/head selection will always be tighter at distance than that of a bare shaft/fletched arrow, or field point/broadhead duo trying to find that happy medium. JMHO.
If other means work for you and you are happy with the results, then no-one can say you are "wrong", anymore than anyone can say someone elses methods are, so whatever floats your boat. It boils down to logic, common sense, and confidence in the results of whatever method you use, so use what works, and good luck!
11-28-2004, 07:00 AM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: Curious! Techies please reply.
I've found a combination of things that have gotten superior results with my broadhead flight. Spine testing and only shooting arrows within certain specs, and then aligning the cock fletch with the stiff side has helped broadhead flight significantly. I also shoot slightly stiff spined arrows and helical feathers. When cutting arrows to lenth, I cut from both ends, test the shafts for weight tolerance, and then do the spine testing.
I also have found that slightly over spined arrows work the best. I also prefer bare shaft tuning over paper tuning.
