Another boring report – No-Peep
 

After over 15 yrs of hunting with a peep sight I figured this system could be improved and bought a No-Peep.

I easily mounted it above my sight and in front of my riser. I put it in front of the riser to keep it close to the pins and easily in my peripheral view.

It took 22 pulls to get it aligned (I did it alone), about 25 mins. I set it up so the string was to the right of my right eye (I am a righty) . This did not feel comfortable to me so I re-set it (another 15 mins.) to anchor with the string to the left of my right eye with my nose touching the string. This is a very natural anchor for me and only slightly different then the way I used to anchor.

This thing is great!! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Once it is set up it aligns every time.
The first bunch of shots I focused on the no-peep a little to much, but after shooting for a while you do not need to look at it. In the position I had it mounted it was easy to see in my peripheral view and it is not distracting at all. It is also easy to just give it a glance as you get to full draw and then forget about it.

You do not need to struggle to keep the dot in the center of the ring, the instructions say that if any of the ring is in the sight window you can still shoot group 2” circles at 20 yds.

It is amazing how this thing will keep your form true. Once you know the bow is tuned for your grip and anchor you can be sure your form is on when the no-peep is aligned up. No more doubts about awkward positions while hunting.

One thing I did notice is that when I aimed the bow down at a steep angle that the dot slid out of the ring. I am definitely loosing my form when shooting at steep angles and will work on that this winter. This is something I never realized before and picked up on the first night I installed the No-Peep.

No more low light problems with my old peep, perfect form every shot from every angle, I would recommend this to anyone looking for a peep alternative.

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

ill ditto your call on the no-peep.

it can take some tinkering though to get it right. (i think a 2nd person is quite handy for this. draw back to where you want to be and have the other person adjust it and tighten it before you let down)

as for low light...it seems to me that it works about as long as the fiber optic pins i have on my sight.

mine is set so i look on the left side of the string (like you had it to start).

John

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

I've been using the NP for a couple of years now and wouldn't be without it on my hunting bows.

Like you mentioned, it REALLY helps show form and alignment flaws when shooting downward angles or in awkward positions in treestands.

I think their mounting systems could be a bit better, but still it is a great product with many satisfied customers.

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

I use one and think it's a fantastic product. I never knew how much a little different grip pressure could torque a bow unitl I had the no-peep on my bow. A very slightly different grip pressure will move the bubble on the no-peep, making you aware of the different torque.

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RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

I bought one a week ago and have yet to installed it, I will give it a shot this weekend and see how it goes.

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

Could you post the web site for No-Peep Thankyou

GUNS AND KNOWLEDGE ARE THE BEST PROTECTION AGAINST TERRORISM

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

I love my no-peep also. Viking here is the link to the no-peep. Glad to be able to help out a fellow viks fan. http://www.timberline-archery.com/np.html

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

When they were first introduced they became popular almost overnight...but I really haven't seen or heard much about them lately. I never tried one myself....which is unusual since I always like to tinker with new gadgets. Maybe it is time I tried one out...

Anyone out there with a negative comment on the No-Peep?

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

I put my no-peep on last spring and loved it right away. Like Rack-attack said you know right away if you change anything in your shooting style and after awile you just take a quick glance at it before you start to aim. It really helps you stay consistant with your form. I took mine off for hunting season last fall and started shooting this year without it. I was'nt happy with my groups so I put it back on. Better groups right away. I'll never take mine off again. Never a turned peep, bad glare or low light problems again. My level fell off of mine and They sent me a new one. New models are more easily adjustable [so they told me] and don't come with a level.

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

I've been using a no peep for about a year now. It has been perfect. Completely transformed my form.

I just switched from fingers to a release about two months ago. This is where I noticed the first problem with a no peep.

When spot shooting on a vegas face every little form flaw shows up as something other than a 10 or x. I have noticed that even though the no peep is lined up perfectly my back tension and form can still be somewhat different.

Last night I decided to try a very small string peep in addition to the no peep. Wow! I was doing things very differently upon release without the string peep. For some reason the string peep cleans that up significantly.

I haven't shot a score with the two on at the same time yet, but from my 10 yard practice (300 26x on a vegas face) I'm guessing my scores will jump dramatically again.

With that said. I'll be hunting exlusively with the no peep again next year. String peeps are a pain to see through.

Cheers,
Pete

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

I went ot a no-peep when I started using glasses and wouldn't want to shoot without it. The surprising thing is that once I put it on I can shoot with or without my glasses in most cases. It definitely extends the daylight hours for my aging eyes!

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

I personally feel the No-Peep is one of the greatest archery products of the last 10 years. Not everyone likes them, but the majority that try them love them. You just need to use them CORRECTLY (i.e. - read the instructions). Some folks say that they are a bugger to set up, but that hasn't been my experience.
Timberline sell 'blems' on their website for a good price. Generally, you can't tell what makes it a blem. I certainly can't tell you what the blemish is on mine.

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

PAB, tell me it isn't so ! With all the bows and gadgets you've gone thru over the past few years, you've never tried one? Do yourself a favor, try one on whatever bow you own this week. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> I predict that once you do, the No Peep will be the only gadget that you won't want to replace. Its that good.

Turc

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

Glad to see so many people using and liking this great little gadget!

I don't think I will ever shoot without one


..........unless I pick up that hind sight I was looking at.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

PAB:

I bought two when they first came out, and I don't use them any more. I don't think my comments are so much negative as just &quot;these are some issues.&quot;

They didn't mount on the first two bows I tried to mount them on. I can't remember why now, but one was a tech riser. Believe me I tried everything. However the bracket is different now.

They are difficult to adjust. They now have a vertical micro drive. Anyway, this only affects you initialy.

A lot of folks like them because they can't master peep rotation. If you had a proper peep, why would you want this? On the other hand, unless you have a bow press getting peeps right can be a problem with some bows. It would make it easier to do a string change if the peep wasn't part of the deal.

If you are new to torque, this thing may be neat, but if you already know about that... Also just twisting your hand back won't help, you need a neutral position for the hand, once you have it, you don't need an NP to maintain it.

I don't want to be looking anywhere but the target at any time during the aiming cycle. With live targets even looking away for micro seconds can be a problem. There was also a whole thing I wrote about floating the pin with this thing that I won't go into again.

Don't be fooled into thinking that any kind of riser alignment system replaces a string alignment system. There are three things that need to be in line, the aiming point, the riser, and the string. So far our aiming system only gets two of these (unless you use the NP and a peep, or something simmilar). I personaly prefer having positive alignment of my string and sight, and depending on my body reference for torque. Anyone is welcome to their own system on this. Just keep in mind that when you swap out the peep for an NP you probably can coast on good habits from years of looking through a peep. Over time you may loose track, so keep an eye on your string alignment and anchor.

Accuracy is something I haven't heard convincingly on. I did hear some good target shooters use it (only counts if you don't also use a peep) but that doesn't prove anything since good shooters can be very accurate without any peep system at all, or even sights. On the other hand, since I initialy instaled it for hunting, I know it was accurate enough for that.

There isn't any third axis adjustment.

Does anyone know whether it is sllowed in classes that limit string hardware to a nocking point?

I am not anti-NP. I hope they come out with a serious model built like a quality sight some day.

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

&quot;If you had a proper peep, why would you want this?&quot;

A peep does not show you any of the hand torque or bad form alignment on downward angle shooting- like from a treestand.

&quot;I don't want to be looking anywhere but the target at any time during the aiming cycle&quot;

Once you get used to the NP, peripheral vision let's you keep your eye on target while still being able to do a quick check of the NP alignment.

&quot;Don't be fooled into thinking that any kind of riser alignment system replaces a string alignment system.&quot;

As long as you have a consistent anchor, the string alignment should take care of itself. Riser torqueing has more of an affect on accuracy- and you can't see that with a conventional peep.

&quot;There are three things that need to be in line, the aiming point, the riser, and the string&quot;

You could torque the heck out of the riser and still be &quot;in line&quot;.

The NP is meant primarily an aid to hunting setups. It's outstanding at showing form inconsistencies in different shooting postitions. A conventional peep inhibits shooting ability at those crucial moments of fading daylight.

They most likely won't come out with any other &quot;serious model built like a quality sight&quot; because the cost would be prohibitive for the average bowhunter, and THAT'S the intended market of this device- not target shooters who will generally spend more on their setups.

Great product for bowhunting.

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

Ossage,

The no-peep will not replace a poor anchor and it will not eliminate torque, but it can be an aid to help one recognize it. Besides, it's main benefit is for hunters. In low light hunting situations, string peeps can make you so mad, you'll swear never to use one again. I know, because I took that oath!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> I tried the &quot;C-peep&quot; and the hole was too large to be as accurate as I liked and the outside edges still got in the way of a clean view of the animal. When it comes right down to it, the no-peep is a far superior product over a regular peep for the serious hunter who may be shooting in low light situations. It's unobtrusive and after several hundred shots with it, you'll find yourself hardly looking at it, and yet coming to the same anchor point with greater consistancy. Every now and then I glance at mine and find myself somewhat shocked that I don't have to move a fraction of a millimeter to adjust my anchor. I think it's a fantastic tool for the bowhunter.

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RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

BF - It is exactly that kind of quick look I am talking about. That isn't a good practice in my view. But you are welcome to do so if you wish.

I understand it shows hand torque which a peep doesn't which is why I said:

&quot;If you are new to torque, this thing may be neat, but if you already know about that... Also just twisting your hand back won't help, you need a neutral position for the hand, once you have it, you don't need an NP to maintain it.&quot;

I just don't find this useful, or something I would want to have pointed out to me while I was hunting or target shooting. I mean you notice you have hand torque, if you have ever shot a long stabilizer, or just worked on your form this isn't news. What do you do about it? I worked on form until it isn't there to be seen. I don't want to keep torquing the bow looking at my NP. Under the presure of full draw (such as it is) what do you do about torque, the only correct answer is let down, which is why I choose to deal with it before the draw starts.

&quot;As long as you have a consistent anchor, the string alignment should take care of itself. Riser torqueing has more of an affect on accuracy- and you can't see that with a conventional peep&quot;.- BF

First, where is the evidence riser torque has more effect than poor anchor? Every system has the vices of its virtues as the saying goes. I do think a person who has worked on the anchor for ever and a day, and moves to the NP may find it useful, but if you were starting from scratch without good habits in either area, I don't see the evidence one is more important than the other.

BF:
Obviously the market for hunting is much bigger than for target, but is the NP mostly for hunting? I think they claim it is just as good for alignment as a peep. That might even be true, but it isn't just as good for shooting as a peep, as far as I am concerned. Anyway what do you mean when you say for &quot;hunting&quot;. What's wrong with it that you can't use it for target just as well?

I agree with you about low light. I am on record around here saying that I don't hunt in the dark but mostly midday in the winter (I can't hunt these days but that is what my experience is based on)not everyone's conditions are the same.


I am not trying to change minds here, PAB asked whether there were any negative coments, and I know a few. I tried to present both sides of any negatives. Others have already answered the positives side

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

Ossage- Looks like you did not carefully read my comment.

Once you get used to the NP, peripheral vision let's you keep your eye on target while still being able to do a quick check of the NP alignment.

That is not a &quot;quick look&quot;- using peripheral vision (by definition) means NOT taking your eyes off the target.

I'm glad for you that you don't find a very sensative torque indicator (like the NP) useful. More power to you. I know that when shooting in odd positions from a treestand, it is very easy for your form to deteriorate. Add in some buck fever, and low light.

&quot;First, where is the evidence riser torque has more effect than poor anchor?&quot; When did I say anything about a poor anchor?!? Did you read my post?: As long as you have a consistent anchor, the string alignment should take care of itself.

When torquing a riser, you set two things in motion. The pins extended out on the sight bar, and the arrow rest contact point with the arrow. The catch is that if that contact point is ANYWHERE behind the pivot point of the bow (deepest part of the grip), the direction of movement of this conatct point is in the OPPOSITE direction of the sight pins. If you torque the bow to the right, the pins go right, but the arrow direction on the rest goes left! There aren't too many rests that position the contact point DIRECTLY over the pivot point. Bodoodles (I love 'em) have almost a 1&quot; overdraw.

Yes, the NP is mostly for hunting. That's part of the huge advantage- better low light seeing ability, and form alignment from hunting positions.

&quot;I think they claim it is just as good for alignment as a peep.&quot; Most &quot;hunting peeps&quot; are rather large in diameter for light gathering. And in that case, yes, the NP is much better for aligment than some of these huge peeps. And you can use it for target, but having a lens might bump you up into the FS class. I've heard that some places called the NP illegal for BH class because it uses a lens.

I've used it for target and did quite well with it. I have found that indoor flourescent glare can be a drawback without a hood on it. But since I find that it's primary advantage is for hunting situations, that's where I use it most.

I'll still keep my 1/32&quot; micro peep for target, along with my 3rd axis leveling Sure-Loc and scope. But my hunting bow wouldn't be without the No-Peep.

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

I think that I'll have to try one, it sure couldn't hurt. I'm am so sick and tired of my various peeps.

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RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

BF two serious questions:

1) If you see in your peripheral vision that your riser isn't aligned, what do you do about it? Is the correction subconscious, something that just happens, or does the thought &quot;I'm torquing&quot; cross your mind. I think in my case it would have to be a conscious thing, in which case I just can't use it. I am not saying I'm so special I don't need that info if it was available, I am saying I can't process it. One key general factor for top shooters (not me, but I keep trying) is one thought in mind. For some it is aiming, others think only of form, etc... If I am aiming, I can't be thinking of anything else.

2) If you find out you are torquing, what do you do about it? As far as I am concerned its too late then to start fooling with my hand at that point. I honestly have no idea what I would do during that shot sequence with the information.

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

How does the timberline attach to the bow?

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

Ossage,

Again, this is a hunting device for the most part- and that is its use to me. The NP does not have to be &quot;dead nuts&quot; centered to shoot good groups. And in a hunting situation out to 25yds, 1-2&quot; point of impact difference doesn't mean much to me if my NP is not perfectly lined up. You can have the dot off a bit and still be 3-4&quot; on target out to 30yds.

This is not like shooting baby-X's on a Vegas face where that 1&quot; change is going to put you down on the rankings.

If I notice the NP is not within my tolerances for a green light shot, then from using it for soooo long now it is second nature to me for the adjustment. And generally the only time for adjustment is shooting downward from an elevated position- and from not fully bending at the waist. The NP really shines in that instance. You hear of SO many people hitting high when shooting downward angles, and that can come from form deterioration and by just dropping the bow arm instead of bending at the waist.

Yes, for top shooters the &quot;one thought in mind&quot; is neccessary for intense target settings where pressure can get the best of you, and that 1/2&quot; difference on the target face can mean a 1st place victory or a 5 place rank. But when bowhunting, I have a different thought process- line up the shot, make sure no branches or twigs are in the way, pick a spot and pulllllll. There is huge differences in shot sequence for me between a target and bowhunting scenario. I'm not sure I even have a shot sequence for bowhunting. &quot;Make it work with the conditions you're in&quot;, that's pretty much it.

My target shot sequence would absolutely NOT work in a hunting situation- it's all out the window at that point. I can't place my feet absolutely perfectly on the line. I may not be able to have my whole body perpendicular to target. I may have to throw back a draw VERY quickly if the window of opportunity is short. I may have to hold for much longer than usual if a shot doesn't present itself. I may have to shoot very quickly. Etc..... There's no way my shot sequence would let me do things &quot;as normal&quot;.

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

BobCo-

There's a mount plate that goes between your sight mount and the riser. The NP plate is &quot;sandwiched&quot; between the riser and your sight.

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

Ossage,

Since I've put many hundreds of shots through my bow with the NP attached, I'll take a stab at your last question.

At first, when the NP was new to me, and I saw that the bubble was off, it took thought and effort on my part to figure out how to bring it back in proper alignment. After a lot of practice, it became a subconscious adjustment. If you bring your bow to your eye and the sight pin isn't centered in your string peep, you don't have to think about how to get it centered. You do it naturally. Same with the NP after the adjustments become ingrained in your mind. It's usually, just a fraction of millimeter adjustment on your anchor or a slightly different pressure where the grip hits. My experience is that it's easy to do and very helpful. I shoot better with it than a large string peep and I wouldn't even consider a small peep for hunting. I wouldn't care how bright the lighting. Small peeps block your view and make it difficult to pinpoint your target area.

The other thing is, that it's not the kind of product you regret buying. It's small, unobtrusive, light weight and not something you worry about having on your bow if you decide not to use it.

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

And not to mention peep rotation in different temperature ranges. If you use a peep that doesn't have the rubber tubing, temp differences can sometimes make for a rotated peep at the worst possible time. One less thing to worry about. AND you pick up a few extra fps by not having the extra weight of a peep and tubing on your string. Free speed.

I really don't even bother with the level on the NP. Out to 25-30yds it ain't gonna make a big deal of difference if the bow is tipped a tad for bowhunting. How accurate is that $.30 level going to be (that's glued in) anyway? Maybe for consistent holding, but for accurate leveling......hmmmmm. In fact, the level fell off of one of my NP's last year. I didn't bother to put it back on. The alignment feature of the NP is far more important than be a half-bubble off.

Just my thoughts-

Edited by - Black Frog on 03/07/2002 17:31:37

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

Black Frog,

The one I have is a newer one and they don't even put a level on the new model. Must be the manufacturer either felt it wasn't all that important or not very accurate. Either way, you can still have a level on your sight if that's important to you.

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

Could you give me a little more detail please. Does the peep gp in front on the sight or behind it. Any trouble with arrow clearence?

&quot;There's a mount plate that goes between your sight mount and the riser. The NP plate is &quot;sandwiched&quot; between the riser and your sight.&quot;

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

Looked at before and read it, but it doesn't completely answer my question. But thanks.

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

Bobco.

On my newest bow, I've had it in 3 different positions so far. I had it below the site- behind the riser. Above the site- behind the riser. Now I have it in front of the riser below the pins and I like that the best. It is really close to the site and I don't have to take my eye of the target or pins to see it. It's right there. I love mine, a lot.

Will this help?

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

Bobco,

You can mount the NP in front of the riser above the sight or below the sight. You can also mount behind the riser (closest to you at draw) above or below your pins.

I see no clearance problems if mounted correctly.

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

So then, I would be able to mount it behind my sight, and actually look through my sight window, near my pins and see the peep, correct?It would. have to be over the top of the entire sight window.

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

That is correct,

Mine is mounted just above my top pin guard and inline vertically with my pins about halfway between my riser and my sight body. I look through my window then there is the no peep then ther are my pins. It uses up no field of view because it is just above my top pin guard but is easily in my perepherial view when I am aiming.

But you do not need to look at it when you are aiming, unless you turn into a real awkward stance and just want to check form.

Hope this made some sense:)

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

You can see in this pic that the NP is mounted towards the shooter, and above the sight pins:


And here the NP is positioned below the sight picture- whatever postion that is comfortable to you. I have the top edge of my NP just below my 30yd pin. I like to keep things close together.



This is the bracket that get sandwiched between the riser and you sight mount.




Edited by - Black Frog on 03/08/2002 14:19:15

RE: Another boring report – No-Peep
 

Nice post BF. I extened my Trophy ridge Bracket all the way and the no peep fits in behind it really well. Its just under and slightly to the right of my pins, perfect to see without looking away from the pins. It was the best spot for me, of those I tried. In front of the riser, just below the pins.

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