Matt's "Long and Boring" SIGHT Report!!! :-)
02-26-2002, 06:15 PM
#1
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
Matt's "Long and Boring" SIGHT Report!!! :-)
This will be the first installment of “Long and Boring Accessories Report”!!!!
I figure since most of us (except for Frank<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>) are basically tapped out financially and can only realistically Report on so many bows........we’d better start evaluating some less expensive.......but still important items.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
This will give us the chance to examine everday items that we spend the rest of our hard earned money on.
If anyone has any installments of new accessories they've tried.......we'd welcome your own "Long and Boring" reports!
I know I like to learn a little more about an accessory before I'll drop $50......or even $10 <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
This brings us to the first item to be evaluated.........
Trophy Ridge “Flatliner Extreme” 3 Pin model.
Initial impressions:
First off the sight is pretty darn cool looking.......it’s a design the conventional pin shooter is not used to looking at, and I will outline some of the sights strong and weak points as we go along.
The sight is light weight,relatively inexpensive ($50.00), is simple to adjust, and is very bright.
The design as you can see is based on a Verticle Pin stack consisting of 3 separate adjustable pins which actually sit behind one another with the top pin being the furthest from the eye.(5 pin models are available)
There is also a built in “Torque Indicator” feature which you set basically by loosening the 2 set screws on the top and bottom of the sight housing (using allen screws) and rotate the sight housing until all pins line up perfectly. Once set, if you rotate or torque your grip while shooting the pins will not line up vertically, and you’ll start to see the sides of the pin blocks themselves......nice feature.
Positives:
The sight is SUPER simple to adjust.......After the initial torque setting adjustment and mounting to the bow, put the allen wrenches away......you won’t need them. All vertical and horizontal adjustments can be made by hand with wing nut-screws provided. (There are even wingnuts to mount the sight bracket if you like......I didn’t trust them and they were too bulky).
Fine pin adjustments are made by first releasing the right side cam underneath and sliding the pin itself to the desired height with the lever on the left.......then simply lock the right cam back into position! Say goodbye to stripped screw heads.
The aiming points are super fine on this sight, but they lack nothing in the brightness dept. There is a complete external fiber wrap around the sight housing which gathers light very nicely right up to the point where a deer is going to need a flashlight to see you! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
The field of view for a 3 pin sight is simply as good as it gets........there is hardly any target obstruction whatsoever. (On GAME or 3D......spots are a different story and we’ll get to that)
The vertical orientation compliments shooting at animals as it makes it very easy to line up just behind the front leg to the promise land.
It should serve as a pretty good 3D sight....However real "Gap" shooting is impossible.
The sight although fairly bulky is actually quite light......due to it’s composite sight housing and streamlined aluminum mounting bracket. (You Mathews Shooters can get one with those “Harmonic hoohas” in them
)
Negatives.....or should I say things I’d change.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>:
For such a nice design there are quite a few minor negatives that I’d change on the overall design.....this is after shooting it for a few months now.
Even in the tightest (closest to the riser) mounting position the entire sight housing sticks out pretty far from the bow...... And the furthest location is almost comical......it’s way out there.
I’m going to probably shoot a few early 3D's with it, so I split the difference mounting wise, but for brushy tight hunting applications or jerking it up and down trees, a tighter fit to the riser would be a definite benefit.
Some details of the sight are a little “Cheesy”.....the annoying yellow Trophy Ridge raised emblem (sticker) on the side.....falls off and slides around. Why bother?
The inside edges of the Horizontal and vertical adjustment bars have nice marks that allow you to “Dial” in your position.....it’s not micro adjust, but at least it gives you a frame of reference when you are tinkering.......Unfortunately these marks are a DECAL.....and the sharp edges of the dovetail itself work it over pretty badly. I haven’t moved mine much but the stickers looks like my cat was trying to kill a spider on them.
If it were mine to do, I’d have the marks ETCHED into the sunken faces of these ars instead of the cheapy stickers.
I’m shooting a low poundage, low recoil bow with this sight and if I put my ear up to the sight housing and pluck the string, I can hear a slight ‘Tuning Fork” sound.......maybe the fact that it is shaped like a tuning fork is a factor? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> That might be why they came out with the new “Harmonic Hooha” version.
As you can see in the pictures I tried to eliminate this sound with some "Mini" Limbsavers.....didn't work <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>, so I assume that the sound is above the frequency where Limbsavers are effective.
I left them on to help defeat any shot vibration as the sight sticks pretty far out there.
The Wing-nuts......as nice of a feature as they are, really need to be tightened down snugly, or I fear the sight will migrate side to side or up and down. (Hasn’t happened, but i take no chances)
I don’t know if it’s like this on all models or I’m just a lucky one.....but the bottom wingnut winds up when fully tightened, dead in line with the bracket making it VERY difficult to get my fingers on it. Might just be luck of the machining.
Unless you are shooting at a fixed yardage with the top pin......this is not a good spot shooting sight. When you are sighting in the bottom pins on a target face, the vertical orientation blots out the entire spot, and you have no up and down reference. It’s not impossible, but it’s definitely not this sights strong point.
Durability of the composite housing,cams,levers,and slightly exposed pins have yet to be tested.
Overall Impression:
This is a pretty nice sight, that will benefit hunters and "hunter class" 3D shooters alike(unless you are a "Gap" shooter)......it's easy to adjust , and like I said very bright. It’s light, fairly cheap, and ........well sorta sexy.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Overall I’m quite pleased so far, and it will be on my hunting bow this fall, so I trust it to that point.
Edited for picture screw up.....<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Edited by - Matt / PA on 02/26/2002 20:21:47
I figure since most of us (except for Frank<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>) are basically tapped out financially and can only realistically Report on so many bows........we’d better start evaluating some less expensive.......but still important items.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
This will give us the chance to examine everday items that we spend the rest of our hard earned money on.
If anyone has any installments of new accessories they've tried.......we'd welcome your own "Long and Boring" reports!
I know I like to learn a little more about an accessory before I'll drop $50......or even $10 <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
This brings us to the first item to be evaluated.........
Trophy Ridge “Flatliner Extreme” 3 Pin model.
Initial impressions:
First off the sight is pretty darn cool looking.......it’s a design the conventional pin shooter is not used to looking at, and I will outline some of the sights strong and weak points as we go along.
The sight is light weight,relatively inexpensive ($50.00), is simple to adjust, and is very bright.
The design as you can see is based on a Verticle Pin stack consisting of 3 separate adjustable pins which actually sit behind one another with the top pin being the furthest from the eye.(5 pin models are available)
There is also a built in “Torque Indicator” feature which you set basically by loosening the 2 set screws on the top and bottom of the sight housing (using allen screws) and rotate the sight housing until all pins line up perfectly. Once set, if you rotate or torque your grip while shooting the pins will not line up vertically, and you’ll start to see the sides of the pin blocks themselves......nice feature.
Positives:
The sight is SUPER simple to adjust.......After the initial torque setting adjustment and mounting to the bow, put the allen wrenches away......you won’t need them. All vertical and horizontal adjustments can be made by hand with wing nut-screws provided. (There are even wingnuts to mount the sight bracket if you like......I didn’t trust them and they were too bulky).
Fine pin adjustments are made by first releasing the right side cam underneath and sliding the pin itself to the desired height with the lever on the left.......then simply lock the right cam back into position! Say goodbye to stripped screw heads.
The aiming points are super fine on this sight, but they lack nothing in the brightness dept. There is a complete external fiber wrap around the sight housing which gathers light very nicely right up to the point where a deer is going to need a flashlight to see you! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
The field of view for a 3 pin sight is simply as good as it gets........there is hardly any target obstruction whatsoever. (On GAME or 3D......spots are a different story and we’ll get to that)
The vertical orientation compliments shooting at animals as it makes it very easy to line up just behind the front leg to the promise land.
It should serve as a pretty good 3D sight....However real "Gap" shooting is impossible.
The sight although fairly bulky is actually quite light......due to it’s composite sight housing and streamlined aluminum mounting bracket. (You Mathews Shooters can get one with those “Harmonic hoohas” in them
)Negatives.....or should I say things I’d change.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>:
For such a nice design there are quite a few minor negatives that I’d change on the overall design.....this is after shooting it for a few months now.
Even in the tightest (closest to the riser) mounting position the entire sight housing sticks out pretty far from the bow...... And the furthest location is almost comical......it’s way out there.
I’m going to probably shoot a few early 3D's with it, so I split the difference mounting wise, but for brushy tight hunting applications or jerking it up and down trees, a tighter fit to the riser would be a definite benefit.
Some details of the sight are a little “Cheesy”.....the annoying yellow Trophy Ridge raised emblem (sticker) on the side.....falls off and slides around. Why bother?
The inside edges of the Horizontal and vertical adjustment bars have nice marks that allow you to “Dial” in your position.....it’s not micro adjust, but at least it gives you a frame of reference when you are tinkering.......Unfortunately these marks are a DECAL.....and the sharp edges of the dovetail itself work it over pretty badly. I haven’t moved mine much but the stickers looks like my cat was trying to kill a spider on them.
If it were mine to do, I’d have the marks ETCHED into the sunken faces of these ars instead of the cheapy stickers.
I’m shooting a low poundage, low recoil bow with this sight and if I put my ear up to the sight housing and pluck the string, I can hear a slight ‘Tuning Fork” sound.......maybe the fact that it is shaped like a tuning fork is a factor? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> That might be why they came out with the new “Harmonic Hooha” version.
As you can see in the pictures I tried to eliminate this sound with some "Mini" Limbsavers.....didn't work <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>, so I assume that the sound is above the frequency where Limbsavers are effective.
I left them on to help defeat any shot vibration as the sight sticks pretty far out there.
The Wing-nuts......as nice of a feature as they are, really need to be tightened down snugly, or I fear the sight will migrate side to side or up and down. (Hasn’t happened, but i take no chances)
I don’t know if it’s like this on all models or I’m just a lucky one.....but the bottom wingnut winds up when fully tightened, dead in line with the bracket making it VERY difficult to get my fingers on it. Might just be luck of the machining.
Unless you are shooting at a fixed yardage with the top pin......this is not a good spot shooting sight. When you are sighting in the bottom pins on a target face, the vertical orientation blots out the entire spot, and you have no up and down reference. It’s not impossible, but it’s definitely not this sights strong point.
Durability of the composite housing,cams,levers,and slightly exposed pins have yet to be tested.
Overall Impression:
This is a pretty nice sight, that will benefit hunters and "hunter class" 3D shooters alike(unless you are a "Gap" shooter)......it's easy to adjust , and like I said very bright. It’s light, fairly cheap, and ........well sorta sexy.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Overall I’m quite pleased so far, and it will be on my hunting bow this fall, so I trust it to that point.
Edited for picture screw up.....<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Edited by - Matt / PA on 02/26/2002 20:21:47
02-26-2002, 07:51 PM
#2
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jackson, Missouri
Posts: 7,051
RE: Matt's "Long and Boring" SIGHT Report!!! :-)
Thanks, Matt -- and great report!!
I like your suggestion about the accessories reports, and hope others follow your lead. This opens up possibilities....
Now I may have a reason to go buy a digital cam to chip in on these reports... <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
I like your suggestion about the accessories reports, and hope others follow your lead. This opens up possibilities....
Now I may have a reason to go buy a digital cam to chip in on these reports... <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
02-26-2002, 07:59 PM
#3
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rural Town Oklahoma USA
Posts: 139
RE: Matt's "Long and Boring" SIGHT Report!!! :-)
Nice report, Matt .. and a very good idea. Let's see more reports on sights, stabilizers, etc.... especially sights, as I will be in the market very soon
Winger
Winger
02-26-2002, 08:07 PM
#4
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 64
RE: Matt's "Long and Boring" SIGHT Report!!! :-)
I've been thinking about the getting this sight and have heard the vibration comment before. I was wondering if you could tell me if the lower pins in the stack are easy to see in low light?
It seems like they added the vibe dampners to counter this (Matrix), and was wondering if they added the light stick to make the lower pins more visable in low light due to complaints. Thanks
"Hunt smart, know your target and beyond"
It seems like they added the vibe dampners to counter this (Matrix), and was wondering if they added the light stick to make the lower pins more visable in low light due to complaints. Thanks
"Hunt smart, know your target and beyond"
02-26-2002, 08:19 PM
#5
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: Matt's "Long and Boring" SIGHT Report!!! :-)
I'm hoping for more of these as well!
Unit5A,
I find every pin in the stack equally as bright.....
I'm pretty sure that they had the vibration thing in mind with the "Harmonic Hoohas".....or maybe just something to attract a large portion of the market??<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
I think that the light stick idea is sort of silly.....you can see these pins (all of them) way past shooting hours, and even if the bottom pins were too dim to see, who is shooting at 40 yards in the dark anyway?<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
I think where the little light stick would be a BIG help is indoors at target faces or "Techno Hunts" where it takes a "Black" light to get fiber optics to light up.
Personally I think the "Lightstick" is a bit on the gimmicky side simply because by themselves the pins are bright enough to see (brighter than most) without it, and plenty enough to shoot legally at game....but then again that's just MHO.
I wouldn't personally bother spending the extra $$$ on the Matrix when this one will work just fine......but if your one of "THEM" and must have the matching " Harmonic Hoohas" or want the extra "Pushing legal shooting light" glow......then by all means HAVE AT IT!
It would be pretty good for a midnight 3D "Coon Shoot"!!
Edited by - Matt / PA on 02/26/2002 22:49:42
Unit5A,
I find every pin in the stack equally as bright.....
I'm pretty sure that they had the vibration thing in mind with the "Harmonic Hoohas".....or maybe just something to attract a large portion of the market??<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
I think that the light stick idea is sort of silly.....you can see these pins (all of them) way past shooting hours, and even if the bottom pins were too dim to see, who is shooting at 40 yards in the dark anyway?<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
I think where the little light stick would be a BIG help is indoors at target faces or "Techno Hunts" where it takes a "Black" light to get fiber optics to light up.
Personally I think the "Lightstick" is a bit on the gimmicky side simply because by themselves the pins are bright enough to see (brighter than most) without it, and plenty enough to shoot legally at game....but then again that's just MHO.
I wouldn't personally bother spending the extra $$$ on the Matrix when this one will work just fine......but if your one of "THEM" and must have the matching " Harmonic Hoohas" or want the extra "Pushing legal shooting light" glow......then by all means HAVE AT IT!
It would be pretty good for a midnight 3D "Coon Shoot"!!
Edited by - Matt / PA on 02/26/2002 22:49:42
02-26-2002, 09:48 PM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 520
RE: Matt's "Long and Boring" SIGHT Report!!! :-)
I kind of like their new metal Alpha sight. I haven't seen one yet, but it seems as though possibly there isn't the long fiber optic wrap with this one (does anyone know ?). In that case the new light stick might be the only way you could see the sight in sub par light. Doesn't bother me much since in December most of the deer I am after would be in regular light, but it would be an issue for most. More likely an issue that would cause folks not to buy it.
02-26-2002, 11:49 PM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Burleson TX USA
Posts: 6,455
RE: Matt's "Long and Boring" SIGHT Report!!! :-)
Matt
good report
I have the 5 pin model
it has been through some harsh treatment and is still in tact
I have pulled it up and down out of a stand.
The only problem I have had with it is the wing nuts that mount it to the riser do come loose but I know that problem and keep an eye on it and make sure they are really tight before i start to shoot.
It will also be going on my next bow
I mounted mine in the very front holes closest to the sight just to bring it closer to the riser
good report
I have the 5 pin model
it has been through some harsh treatment and is still in tact
I have pulled it up and down out of a stand.
The only problem I have had with it is the wing nuts that mount it to the riser do come loose but I know that problem and keep an eye on it and make sure they are really tight before i start to shoot.
It will also be going on my next bow
I mounted mine in the very front holes closest to the sight just to bring it closer to the riser
02-27-2002, 07:05 AM
#8
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: Matt's "Long and Boring" SIGHT Report!!! :-)
Matt,
Great report. Very well written, easy to read and the pictures made it more than interesting.
What is next...the Zero Effect rest?
..and who said I am not financially burdened? I had to sell a ton of stuff to get that Pro38....<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
This hobby is getting too expensive..I think I will take up bird watching....<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Great report. Very well written, easy to read and the pictures made it more than interesting.
What is next...the Zero Effect rest?
..and who said I am not financially burdened? I had to sell a ton of stuff to get that Pro38....<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
This hobby is getting too expensive..I think I will take up bird watching....<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
02-27-2002, 11:17 AM
#10
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fargo ND USA
Posts: 124
RE: Matt's "Long and Boring" SIGHT Report!!! :-)
I have the same sight and don't care for it; here's why:
1. The pins that hold the fiber are plastic, and I had the back(tallest) one break 3 times this last hunting season. Once was my fault, as I accidentally stuck my thumb into the sight. The other two times I don't know how it happened, but it did. I imagine the new Alpha will remedy that problem.
2. The main sight body is rather large, and if you need to lower the sight much, it is possible to have clearance problems with arrow using this sight, as the fibers stick out the bottom.
3. When I was using the wing nuts for the horizonal/vertical adj., the vertical one would eventually start loosining up on me. I really had to crank on it with a pliers to keep it from doing that. I eventually replaced it with a regular hex screw.
4. Like Matt, I don't like the increment marks for windage/elevation being decals. They get chewed up, and can kinda bind the sight a little when you adjust it. etch marks would be better, but would probably add to the cost.
On the plus side, I really liked the long fibers. It is exceptionally bright, even without using any other light source.
I also liked the adjustment of the individual pins themselves. No tools needed, and sturdy.
I'll probably be taking a close look at the new alpha when it comes out. It does not, however, have the long fibers that wrap around the sight body, so it probably won't be as bright. However, you can use it with light stick.
Rod
1. The pins that hold the fiber are plastic, and I had the back(tallest) one break 3 times this last hunting season. Once was my fault, as I accidentally stuck my thumb into the sight. The other two times I don't know how it happened, but it did. I imagine the new Alpha will remedy that problem.
2. The main sight body is rather large, and if you need to lower the sight much, it is possible to have clearance problems with arrow using this sight, as the fibers stick out the bottom.
3. When I was using the wing nuts for the horizonal/vertical adj., the vertical one would eventually start loosining up on me. I really had to crank on it with a pliers to keep it from doing that. I eventually replaced it with a regular hex screw.
4. Like Matt, I don't like the increment marks for windage/elevation being decals. They get chewed up, and can kinda bind the sight a little when you adjust it. etch marks would be better, but would probably add to the cost.
On the plus side, I really liked the long fibers. It is exceptionally bright, even without using any other light source.
I also liked the adjustment of the individual pins themselves. No tools needed, and sturdy.
I'll probably be taking a close look at the new alpha when it comes out. It does not, however, have the long fibers that wrap around the sight body, so it probably won't be as bright. However, you can use it with light stick.
Rod