RE: Hey Rack, how 'bout this stuff
 

Some of us dont have that problem [:o] or

RE: Hey Rack, how 'bout this stuff
 

Anyone who works with dogs will not believe much of this scent elimination stuff. I have to believe deer are at least the equal of a dog in regards to scenting abilities. I hunt and trial beagles and have owned bunches of them for years. My beagles can find me by following my tracks (made with rubber boots), many hours after I have left the track. Not only that, but they can tell my rubber boots from a large number of other tracks made with rubber boots. I've tried to fool them and cannot. I've sprayed the bottoms of the boots with Scent Eliminator and cover scents. It doesn't slow them down a bit. Think about this. My dogs can tell which way a rabbit is moving by smelling the track. They can detect the difference between the track they're running and any new tracks that cross the original one. They can easily determine when a rabbit has "backtracked". I've seen them following the track of a rabbit without missing a turn, while running as fast as they can. And for those who think rubber boots leave no scent, they can follow my rubber boot tracks much easier than any animal track.

I don't own a carbon suit and don't plan on ever spending the money to get one. If I had one, I'd bet anything that my dogs could find me as easily while I was wearing it, as they can when I'm not. Having studied my dogs scenting abilities over the years, has convinced me that you are not going to fool an animal's nose with the scent elimination stuff they're pushing on us at this time.

RE: Hey Rack, how 'bout this stuff
 

I never got into all that scent elimination clothes and stuff,I just figured that it was a bunch of you know what.I use common "scents"and that what works for me...Bob

RE: Hey Rack, how 'bout this stuff
 

Hype is powerful tool. At one time or another we all find ourselves in its grasp. Once a paradigm has been accepted, obvious truth found in logic, common sense, and yes, at times, even experience can be blurred.

Years ago one would read about the merits of wearing rubber boots for scent control (come to think of it we still do). It became standard practice to wear them and believe that for the most part deer couldn't smell where you walked as long as the boots were free from obvious issues like petroleum products and such. It seemed to make sense so I added rubber boots to my "can't live without" list. However, as Straightarrow has very eloquently pointed out, I noticed my dogs had no problem finding me or my trail even when I wore them. Further, I witnessed first hand deer go on full alert upon discovering my rubber booted trail. Though scoffed at by some of the guys in bowhunting circles I tried leather boots and found that there was no noticeable difference in the deers reaction as long as the boots were free from "foreign" material. Even though my experience showed otherwise it was hard not to put those rubber boots back on until cold weather came.

Fast forward to the invention and now "improved and refined" carbon suits. Not only do we have pages upon pages of ads declaring their effectiveness, we have videos of some of the most successful and well known hunters in the country saying things like, "We couldn't have killed this monster if it hadn't been for our carbon suit!" That is powerful marketing. How is the average "lunch bucket" hunter going to be able to deny the power of the "suit" when seemingly all of the known experts have said "they wouldn't hunt without one"!

I'll bet only a modest percentage of hunters even know there is some scientific doubts as to their effectiveness and longevity. Like the medieval knights of old, we can see by the numbers of carbon clothing being sold that our hunting brethren have accepted the carbon suit as their protective armor. I don't see this paradigm changing anytime soon.

RE: Hey Rack, how 'bout this stuff
 

IMHO Carbon suits & scent eliminators are just "snake oil" in a new package. I see I am not alone.

RE: Hey Rack, how 'bout this stuff
 

Rubber is gas permeable. Odor is gaseous in nature. Go figure...

I bought a pair of Rocky SCS boots, and can honestly say after wearing them for two full seasons, they have no discernable odor to me.

They're breathable to let moisture escape, and have a treated lining to prevent bacterial growth which apparently works very very well.

I start with clean and de-scented as much as possible feet, socks washed in sports wash, and use a pair of Dr. Scholl's odor eater inserts.

I've had both does and bucks cross my entrance path nose down and show no sign of alarm. In the past, this was never so.

I think the key is clean feet, and boots that prevent bacterial growth from generating odor. This combo has worked very well for me.

I have no doubt deer/dogs could detect or trail me if they were so inclinded, but for hunting deer, I don't seem to be leaving any odor that alarms and puts them on the offensive.

RE: Hey Rack, how 'bout this stuff
 

I've got to get involved in this and put in my two cents. I have to agree and disagree with you Rack (and others). As - I personally wear carbon suits and I have been doing this long enough (remember the old days) to know that it has helped me stay more, undetected since using it! How long it works - who knows. I guess time will tell in the next season or so. That's okay, because I do quite well financially and if I have too, I will purchase another suit. This is my opinion only!

Now - the part where I agree 110% with Rack. I too have encountered other hunters (some I know, others I don't). It boggles me that some people can appear to be so intelligent but prove to be such idiots. For example; last year I decided to hunt a little 100 acre patch that my dad and I own and hadn't hunted in a couple years. So I got up REAL early one morning, threw on my sweats, grabbed my gear and drove to the local 7/11 to get some coffee for the 45 minute drive. While at the station, hunters pulled up in their truck. The driver started fueling up his rig, while the other ran inside to grab coffee and breakfast sandwiches. This is an older place and it smells like eggs and bacon 24/7. They looked at me grinning and asked if I was going hunting!?! I grinned back and said yes - how about you? They said yes!

Here's the point: They were already suited up in Carbon Suites, boots, etc. They had everything except safety harness, bow and gloves on. Now you tell me - is their carbon suites going to help them remain undetected? The answer is NO. You may be thinking - well - what about you. I stripped each thread of clothing off, sprayed down with scent killer and put on my hunting clothes at a later time.

IMO - I think this is the biggest problem with scent-elimiation garments. Hunters do not preserve them the way in which was intended. I am a freak when it comes to odor. I will not put on my hunting clothes until I'm in the environment in which I plan to hunt. I will not wear them outside that environment. All of my gear is stored in locked, scent-free containers with baking soda, etc. Doing this requires disapline and is a lot of work and sometimes can be very uncomfortable! But if you want an edge on the whitetail nose, you have to. YOU DON'T have a choice!!

Before you tear me up Rack - let me say that I've never said and will never say that carbon suites or anything else will conceal the human stench! I don't think anything can. I'm simply saying that it has HELPED me. Maybe it's a chemistry thing - ya know - like cologne. Some colognes smell different on different people!!

RE: Hey Rack, how 'bout this stuff
 

Come on...........I wouldn't do that.......

I respect what you have seen using the carbon suit........heck man YOU may be right:)

We may disagree.....but as long as we "argue" for the pupose of getting closer to the truth.........rather then defending our position or purchase........then I think its for the greater good:D

RE: Hey Rack, how 'bout this stuff
 

Found the link to the No-Trace stuff-

http://notrace.us/Home/home.html

If they offered it in a base layer designed to be worn next to your skin, I'd be interested in trying it out...

RE: Hey Rack, how 'bout this stuff
 

There's another side to this discussion. If you could buy a product that would make you absolutely undetectable by any deer, would you use it? How about if you could buy a bow that is so forgiving, that you need not worry about poor form or bad tuning, would you buy it? How about a broadhead so deadly, that it flies straight out of any setup and is guaranteed to pass through a deer leaving a huge wound, no matter where you hit?

Once things get too easy, are we still bowhunting or are we just hunting? If you want to be undectable and absolutely lethal with your weapon, why not just use a rifle? Once you go too far with technology, aren't you just going the same direction that gave us easier kills (as in shotguns and rifles). If it gets to the point where there is little to no challenge, there will be little to no reward. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that technology is bad, just that it makes bowhunting different. How easy does it have to be?

Personally, I'm very happy that most of this scent control stuff is hype. But if it wasn't, would you really want every advantage possible? Do you really want to remove as much of the challenge as you can? Isn't there a reward in choosing a hunting method that requires more skill and less technology, one where getting close isn't always guaranteed, one where the quarry has a very good chance of escape? Just some thoughts to ponder when each considers why they bowhunt.