Paper tuning done wrong
 

People, when you paper tune you should not move the arrow rest in and out. PERIOD. Vertical adjustments should be made with either nock or arrow rest. If you move the arrow rest in and out you will get groups moving left and/or right on the target at different yardages. To place the arrow rest in and out, nock an arrow. Step back from the bow and look down the arrow(2ft.). The string should be in the middle of the bow handle, when the arrow is straight to the string. If the point of the arrow sticks out to the left of the string, move the arrow rest in, and the opposite. Now what makes my arrow tear to the left or the right in the paper? ITS SPINE. For release shooters if your nock is tearing to the left, the arrow is strong. If the nock tears to the right the arrow is weak. This is opposite for fingers shooters. To weaken the spine, turn up the draw wieght, add arrow point wieght, Lengthen the arrows. To stiffin the spine, turn down the draw wieght, decrease point wieght, or shorten the arrows used. I'm tired of hearing about people moving the arrow rest in and out during paper tuning. I know a lot of people are going to call me out on this and say I'm wrong, but i don't care. I'm right and you are wrong. Open up your mind to new ideas and you might just get out of the 300's. Maybe

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

OK :eek:;)

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

ewolf.

This is how you follow up on you "people who do not tune thread".........LOL......[:o]

I don't even know where to start:eek::eek:.....If your post wasn't so "in your face" I probably would of just passed bye.......But I am gonna sit in for a while.;)

Ever hear of the word "cable rod"? - do you know how it effects center tune at full draw?? Do you know the difference betwen stagnent and dynamic??. Can you or myself hold a bow like a Hooter shooter??

You have discribed the worst way to "center tune" a bow I have ever heard.............And I am the guy with the rubberbands holding my blades together.....:D



I know this is me being a jerk but....................Please describe how you lenghten an arrow.......:D:D

Too tired to learn I guess.

:D:D

After this post I must say I do feel better about shooting mechanicals though[&:]

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

Rack, not to get off subject, but what broadheads do you shoot?Just curious.:D

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

ewolf

You actually do have SOME understanding of centershot and it's importance but have a terrible way of making your point.


Centershot is usually not in the center of the grip but off to the side just a hair.This is one reason why a center shot gauge can be a very usefull tool but minor adjustments need to be made to the rest in a group tuning method.This will put the rest in the proper place for individuall shooters.Those of us that have done this enough can use paper to read the paper while moving the rest in or out to get real close before we start our group tuning.



YES,spine is a huge culprit in paper tears but SO IS TORQUE and you made no mention of it.I do agree that we do not need to tune an arrow to shoot bullet holes when we are adjusting the arrowrest way in or out to get it.Centershot is much more important and forgiving than bulletholes.We do need to learn if our tears are from torque or spine and make the appropriate changes.


Oh yea,this is coming from someone that that uses those darn mechanicals too.;)

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

Apple Archery bow holder to hold the bow. To lengthen arrows you would have to buy new ones. Arrow stretchers just don't work on carbons well. I have never had to move my arrow rest in or out(New tuning method). How do you adjust the spine of your arrows to the bow? The chart? Thats real precise, that is how you select arrows that are close. Too tired to learn? Have you ever tried it my way? You just know its wrong. I have tried it your way and been dead on at 20 yards and 60 yards and 3 inches to the left at 40 Its because you move the arrow rest(In my case out). I don't care if you change your method. Obviously you are better then everyone else and know it all, but lots of new shooters are being mislead. That is how i get the centershot close. That E-Z shot true center really works great Yeah right. Its complicated on how to properly set centershot Try this method and you will see you are wrong. Try it then tell me im wrong.

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

All I know is they are cool looking - come with rubberbands - require no tuning - and occasionly kill stuff:D

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

TFOX you are right it can come from torque to. After paper tune i bare shaft tune to 40 yards then i shot groups at 80 and adjust the rest in and out for the best groups, but this is extremely minor.

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

Are you talking to me.........or yourself:eek::eek:

Centertune is VERY IMPORTANT. But many variables go into it. Not just eyeball it into the center of the riser.

I spine check with bare shafts, and group tuning. I shoot goldtips - I have to choices week or stiff. I shoot stiff. Spine has rarely been an issue for me - and when it is I can see it in my long range broadhead groups faster than you can set up your paper tuner. Oh - I also do not paper tune because IMO it doesn't tell you anything I cant find out with group, walk back, vertical and Horiz line tuning. Infact a bullet hole is often miles away from a super tune.

I don't need to run into a brick wall to know I will smash my face.;)

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

Oh Dear Lord, so many contradictions, so little time...

First you say: So, we should do it your way because it's wrong? Hmmm.... No?

Then you say: The style in which you post makes you sound very much like a jerk. You're new here, I'll fill you in. People don't like it when you act like you know everything, and yes, this is exactely how your posts make you sound. It makes you sound as if you think you're better than us, that you know more than us, and that you're as uptight as the democratic party at a gun show.

Open your mind. People have different methods of doing things. Just because YOU think that YOUR way works better than anyone elses doesn't mean that you need to act like your way is the ONLY way.

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

I agree with everyone. I'm that kind of guy. I do not set my centershot to the center of the bow, however, because that's not where the "dynamic" center is. The "dynamic" center is offset to the side just a tad because the string is not in the center of the bow. Therefore if you set your rest to the physical center of the bow you are shooting the arrow sideways right off the bat.

Rack, I like bareshafting, too. Much better than paper any day. Takes longer, is more precise, and gives me more shooting time.

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

ewolf, in case you never tried it the arrow stretcher doesn't work very well on aluminum arrows either.

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

i thought if you wanted a stiffer spine you would shorten the arrow, am I wrong? Just curious.

(KNIGHTS OF THE ROUND TABLE)[8D]

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

Fact: some of the best professional target shooters don't worry about a bullet hole. Read some about Frank Pearson, he generally had a very small tear left. Reason: because of his form, he found that the very small tear left made hi dead on with his own consistant shooting form.

Being dead on centershot does not work for every archer/bow combination......it does for me using a release, but when I shot fingers for me it was best to be off center 1/16.

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

ewolf,

That statement there will discredit you from many a person's viewpoint. Second, you contradict yourself with that statement..."Open your mind" and yet "I am right and you are wrong"......:(

As for your procedure....I agree that it is good that you take the time to tune your bow but as several others have mentioned the center of the grip is not necessarily the perfect line for the powerstroke of the string. For example, most conventional single cam bows have their strings at an angle in the horizontal plane. Because of this, more often than not, the arrow ends up pointing to the left of center when the centershot is set correctly.

Also, getting left and right tears after centershot is set does not necessarily just indicate a spine issue. It may also be the result of other issues, some previously mentioned, such as fletching contact, torque, etc....

Some things to think about.

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

ewolf

As a newbie to the world of compound bows, I don't post very often.

However, I hope that you will keep posting with your less than nice-nice style. Whatever your style, I always learn something from your posts and the replies.

I do wonder if the date that you started this tread has some relevance?

Allen

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

Just to throw in a little fat to chew on..........What do you all think about Bernie Pellerite's comments about tuning in his book IPA? Bernie discusses (very persuasively) all the different types of tuning. Bernie addresses all of these issues as ways to get the best groups for target archery. However, he also says that when tuning for broadheads, paper tuning is essential.

I believe his rational is that sometimes you get better groups when there is a built in paradox to the arrow. However, the best groups and the best arrow flight are not always synonymous. Therefore, group tuning may provide slightly better grouping for your broadhead tipped arrow, but not necessarily the best arrow flight. Therefore, the arrow will not deliver it's energy as efficiently as it would have it were tuned to shoot perfect holes.

I have to admit that I have always tended to agree with this thinking. JMO

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

Best groups and best arrow flight are not always synonymous. The obverse is also true. Best arrow flight and best accuracy are not always synonymous. I'd be very happy to sacrifice a tiny bit of energy transfer to know that the arrow is going to hit where I aim it, rather than a few inches off. Accuracy first, arrow flight second.

Naturally the goal is to have both, perfect accuracy and perfect arrow flight. Problem is, it takes a perfect archer behind the string to achieve either. ;)

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

ewolf- I'm going to give you a little advise here.... Don't ever throw anything "out of your arsenal" to get a bow "tuned". I know and use most all the tuning methods there are in this world, and I always use paper tuning to get started. I know some of the major "teacher-coaches" don't like to use it for FITA and distance shooting, but it is one of the best for the average hunter-archer. Remember-nothing in archery is cast in stone. Now- go ahead and bash me for this statement, but there's a million shooters, and tech people , and professional shooters out there who will use this method. After many years in this business I have learned there is validity in all tuning methods.

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

Well thank you Arthurp, master of the obvious:D

I was looking more along the lines of moving your sight rather than you're arrow rest, if you are already shooting execptable groups but not grouping with your field tips etc. I don't think would recommend that anyone hunt with a bow that wouldn't shoot within a couple of inches of where you aimed. But I honestly have never had that trouble. Going back to some more of what Bernie discussed in his book, if you can make the bow do the same thing, it is going to it in the same hole regardless of tune (i.e. Hooter Shooter). So if your broadheads hit a couple of inches from where you aim, just move your sight. Bernie definetly has some intersting opinions!

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

It'd be kinda hard for me to move my sight since I don't use one. ;)

Actually, when I tune my bow for hunting, I tune strictly for broadheads. I could care less about where field points hit in relation, because I don't hunt with field points. Also, you know I'm not ate up with the speed addiction. My arrows are not so speedy that I can't have a trusted friend watching my arrow flight for any wobble off the bow. They're also not so speedy that they hit the animal before they stabilize into straight flight if I get a rough release and induce a little wobble.

Really, I agree with what you posted above. Just felt a little froggy this morning and took a tug on your chain.[8D]

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

I forgot who I was talking to:D

;)
lol, that's understandable!

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

Distance shooting is different then hunting or IBO comps. Remember that once you hit 40 yards your feathers/vanes are really working well by then. Once you get to 60 yards tuning is not as important. If you have helical feathers, which i always recommend. "Straight vanes have no place in archery"- Randy Ulmer. Two things matter when your hunting, good arrow flight and accuracy. In targets all that matters is accuracy. AllenRead the only way that you can get anything useful out of the posters on here is to piss them off, then they tell you what they really think. Always post on the short side of the stick, they will tell you what they think and you will get info that is useful to you.

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

ROTFLMAO.......... I love it!!!!:D:D:D:D:D

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

Not from me - not ever again[:'(]

You can figure out how to get the damn rubberbands on yourself:D

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

Really got the site rolling today, didn't we ? :)

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

Quote:

---

....the only way that you can get anything useful out of the posters on here is to piss them off, then they tell you what they really think. Always post on the short side of the stick, they will tell you what they think and you will get info that is useful to you.

---

I will respond to this. If you think for one minute, myself and some others will deal with a foolish and obnoxious person with a keyboard, you're wrong. Bottom line - you've lost any respect some of us may have had for you.

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

I'm thinking BradRules just couldn't take the banishment any longer and he signed back up as ewolf.

RE: Paper tuning done wrong
 

It is a good thing this thread came up! I needed something to do today. So...

I will take my bow that shoots bullet holes through paper with a bare shaft, puts bare shaft arrows in the same group as fletched field pt arrows and broadhead arrows, and move the rest so that it is in the center of the grip. ('03 Pro 40 ;);))

Then I will go to the shop and buy arrows of various spines, plus points of various weights, just in case.[:-]

It may take all day, and cost several hundred dollars, but I will get the "correct" system to work for me too![8D]

At least I will have the satisfaction of knowing that I have "done it the right way.":eek::eek::eek:

[8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D]

RE: Paper tuning done wrong