Taming recoil
 

I'm on the fence concerning a new bow. My hornet gives me all the performance I need, the only thing it lacks is that sit in your hand feeling of the VFT/Parabolic new breed of bows.

It just has a slight twinge of recoil to let you know it's there.

I've installed 1 set of limb savers and have an 8" stealth stabilizer, but I'm wondering if there is anything additional I can add, such as the NOVA limb bolt system or perhaps weight behind the stabilizer that will further reduce or eliminate recoil. Or is this something that only VFT/Parabolic limb design can do?

Anyone?

RE: Taming recoil
 

I am not familiar with the NOVA limb bolt system but if you are referring the PSE NV system or that new Sims Extreme Limbsaver system then I think either would be worth a try.

Once again I will extend you the courtesy though. I have a set of PSE NV system dampeners that I have been using normally but also as a stabilizer enhancer. If you like, I can send them to you to try out. That way you don't have to spend the money if they don't work for your bow. ;)

Two, not to take away from the Stealth guys but I have always found the Sims Enhancer 2000 to be the best short mount stabilizer for reducing recoil. Maybe you could try this as an add-on to the Stealth or just by itself.

RE: Taming recoil
 

I'll take you up on that. I'll pm you my details... THANKS!

Those are what I was talking about. I just remembered the name wrong :) Any idea how they differ from the Sims version? Similar performance?

Are you saying you used one of these between the stabilizer and the bow?

Thanks a ton... you've got a pm :)

RE: Taming recoil
 

The Sims version have an additional mounting hole tapped into the center of each unit so that you can add on additional weights, sims modules, etc... Pretty cool in my opinion as it allows you to further customize the balance of your setup. However, they are also pricier than the NV system by about $25.00. I think they sell around $75.00 most places.

I cannot comment on actual performance differences as I have never actually installed a set of the Extreme limbsavers on any bow. I never bought a set for myself and we do not have them down at the shop.

Yes...and more than one at times. You do need to add a washer though as well as an extra "mounting bolt". I have a few of those laying around from a Cobra wrist strap package I utilize. I will send an extra bolt along with the dampeners if you want to try them as a stabilizer combo.

RE: Taming recoil
 

Rangeball,

Some recoil will be absorbed by any additional weight. The Hornet is a very light bow and adding weight will help in the recoil department. It might take some experimentation finding out how much and where it should go.

RE: Taming recoil
 

Frank, please do, I'm up for experimentation. Dumb question- I assume I don't need new longer limb bolts to use these, right?

Straightarrow, that's what I was thinking. I'm comparing 3.2# versus closer to 4# on other bows. Any helpful hints as where to start? I need to add 12 ounces to get it up to the Outback and Max Extreme level. I had thought about some sort of donught shaped weight between the bow and stabilizer.

I'll weigh the NVs and see how much they add to the mix, perhaps they'll get me much closer and I won't need as much weight...

RE: Taming recoil
 

Rangeball,
Are you shooting a McPhearson Hornet? The reason I ask is that I just got rid of one and never really noticed any substantial recoil in that bow. Just Curious.

RE: Taming recoil
 

I'll second that , works great on some bows , fare on others . Its weird how some things work on one bow and not another , case in point , doniker carbon rod stabilizer . Worked like magic on my darton mavrick , but did not seem to have the same effect on other bows , still its a quality stabilizer .

RE: Taming recoil
 

PA's right the Simm's work's great with the Stealth I have both on my BowTech Dually and I really noticed the difference with it and without it ,the Stabilizer really benifit's from the Enhancer.I have mine on the rear of the brace not on the front of the stabilizer.good luck I'm sure this will help. Oh yea maybe try the heavy end out as well as in with the Simm's on the front,the Simm's is very cheap to buy apposed to the nv system and it might just work. I swear by it myself.

nubo

RE: Taming recoil
 

Rangeball:

Mighty nice of Frank to offer the NV system to try. My impression of it (used on a Darton Maverick, and a Darton Mountain 2000) was that it did cut recoil effectively. I was not impressed with the system in terms of noise, but it did cut the recoil.;)

As far as the stabilizer thing goes, my setup with the Pro 40 wheely and also with last year's Pro 38 Dual Cam was the 6" Stealth Hunter in the front stabilizer mount, and a short Enhancer 2000 in the rear mount. Both bows balanced very well, and the combo really absorbed the recoil and noise quite effectively. Neither bow really "kicked" too much anyway, but the recoil present was taken care of nicely.:)

RE: Taming recoil
 

Swamp Dawg, I'm shooting a Diamond, not a Pearson. Recoils is just noticable, trying to see if I can reduce it to match the "sits in your hand" feeling some of the newer bows provide.

I have a Simms stabilizer enhancer, somewhere, got it for Christmas and now can't find it :(

When it turns up I'll add it to the mix as well. I had a thought over the weekend of how to experiment with weight added in different places, just have to find the thing I'm looking for to do it. It's around the house somewhere too. Probably with my enhancer...

Thanks for all the positive replies. I'm optimistic :)

RE: Taming recoil
 

The NV system uses your pre-existing limb bolts as well as the washers that go along with them. You just won't be using those limb bolt "caps" that sit closest to the head of the limb bolt.

Personally, I think the combination of the NV system and an Enhancer 2000 would provide excellent vibration and recoil reduction on any bow.

RE: Taming recoil
 

Anyone have any idea what a set of the NV system weighs?

Can't find data anywhere...

RE: Taming recoil
 

RB,

I can check when I get home provided my scale will go that high...;)

RE: Taming recoil
 

Thanks to Frank's generosity, first experiment with the NV dampeners is complete.

Frank had mentioned he found the dampeners did the best taming recoil when installed on the limb bolts. I decided to try simply adding them to my 8" stealth first, as I don't have time currently to do a breakdown.

As he recommended, I planned to install one NV against the riser using the bolt supplied, then secure my Stealth into it. I then planned to add the other NV to the end of the stealth, figuring their combined weight of 6.6 oz had as good a chance as any to reduce recoil, since my Hornet weighs 3.2#s and most "recoil-less" bows seem to weigh in at 4#+. This would bring my "spec" weight up to 3.6#s.

First problem- Due to the riser configuration, the NV would not fit against the riser, too much reflex. So, I installed the stealth first, then put both NVs on the end of the stealth.

First impression, the bow held on target MUCH steadier. I've been slowly realizing I prefer a heavier bow, and this just reinforced the issue. After several shots, it seemed recoil was reduced, but not eliminated. Vibration seemed less as well, although there is little to begin with, so it's really hard to tell.

However, I learned enough to realize I need to install the NVs where they're supposed to go, then add anotehr 6 ozs, probably to the end of the stabilizer, to get the bow's mass weight up towards 4 pounds.

Does anybody know where I can get a very dense stabilizer weight that is hopefully short as well?

RE: Taming recoil
 

If you are going to add more weight then you might as well pick a design that is also aimed at reducing noise/shock as well. How about a short mount (or long one depending on where you place it) Sims Enhancer 2000? I had a short mount unit that might work well on the end of the stealth though I would probably prefer to have a long mount unit between the Stealth and the riser.

If you had an extra one of those "bolts" then you could mount it between the NV unit and the riser thus placing the NV unit farther from the reflexed riser. More forward weight usually does promote a steadier aiming point. That is why you always see target shooters with longer stabilizers and/or stabilizers that have a weighted front end.

Glad you are making good use out of them. I would be curious to hear your impressions once you get them mounted on the limb bolts.

RE: Taming recoil
 

I promise, just as soon as I work up the courage to try and tear down my bow with the bowmaster portable press... :)

Any idea what those Sims enhancer 2000s weigh in at?

RE: Taming recoil
 

Can you tear your bow down with a Bowmaster? Careful, I know that some bows you can't get the limbs off with a Bowmaster. It doesn't have enough travel for some configurations to provide enough slack to get the limbs off......

Ya know Apple makes some nice bow presses as well.....;)

RE: Taming recoil
 

Thanks for the heads up. Frank and I discussed that as a possibility earlier in PMs. I need to check into it. I'll probably just have a shop do it, to be safe. I wanted the bowmaster for retuning cables/strings, etc, it works well for the little things.

I'm soooo glad we don't hang on a regular basis...

I'd be broke then divorced in short order, I'm sure...

:)

Actually, the one Walks makes would be perfect for me, but it's $75 or so...

RE: Taming recoil
 

The sims system is great, it really allows you to tweak until you get what works for you.....another great stabalizer is the doinkers, they always worked well for me.

RE: Taming recoil
 

Rangeball,
I think you would be "Shocked" (no pun intended) at how well a 12 inch Stealth 3-D stabilizer would perform on your setup!
Your bow would aim better and the damping quality`s of a 12 inch Stealth are "VERY" good!;)
A light bow is nice to carry around but.....in most people`s hands a heavier bow is more accurate!!!!!!!!:)

RE: Taming recoil
 

Coming from any one but you, I might believe this... :)

Jerry, at this point I'm more concerned with recoil reduction/elimination, the slight tendency of the bow to jump forward, than shock reduction. Do you think the 12" would help in this regard?

How much does the 12" weigh? The 8"? Any way to add more weight to the back end without messing up the dampening qualities?

Perhaps a custom weighted 12" and the NVs on the limb bolts would be the ticket...

RE: Taming recoil
 

Just did another test. I installed the two NVs in a cut out on the bottom part of the riser, with the riser sandwiched between the two. This kept the weight lower on the riser, hopefully enhancing a plumb bob effect and pointability.

It did. Bow was as steady to aim as it was with the NVs on the end of the 8" stealth. At release, they seemed to tame recoil as much as having them on the stabilizer did. However, the bow didn't want to severely tip forward after the shot like it did with them way out front, which makes sense. All in all, from the limited shots I was able to take (damn work keeps getting in the way), I prefer them on the riser like this. Hmmmm...

8" stealth, NVs on the Limb Bolts and more weight installed on lower riser with riser sandwiched between them?

RE: Taming recoil
 

I can build you a custom 12 inch and would recomend a weight of 12oz. The mass weight would be toward the back of the stabilizer, you would have less recoil "AND" see better groups down range!;)
Jerry

RE: Taming recoil
 

RB,

That sounds like an interesting idea...something like the Mathews Harmonic dampeners...at last in positioning. I will have to give that a whirl. What do you have the two connected with? Bolt and nut?

RE: Taming recoil
 

Jerry, that's worth considering. How much does my current stock 8" stealth weigh? I'm trying to get a feel for how much additional weight will be added over what's on there now. Never mind, found it on your site, 12 oz. If the 12" you propose also weighs 12 oz, how will recoil be reduced? I assume a custom job wouldn't be returnable if it doesn't do what I want? Where is the mass weight located in the standard 12" 16 oz. stabilizer you produce, front, back, center or evenly spaced?

I used some masking tape to secure a 1# cold chisel (all I could find at a moments notice) to my 8" stealth, wanted to see what the bow would feel/perform at a heavier mass weight. All I determined is either masking tape does a crappy job holding an object in place during the aftermath of a high energy bow release, or my taping skills leave a bunch to be desire... :) More to come on this one.

Frank, I have the MF bolt through one of the cone washers, through the NV, through the riser into the other NV, with the bolt and other cone washer secured to it pulling everything finger tight.

RE: Taming recoil
 

Thanks. I am going to give a similar configuration a whirl over the Easter Holiday. Did you try them on your limb bolts yet? :)

RE: Taming recoil
 

No. You and Todd chicken'd me out, so I plan to have a shop do it. Just need to take my bow over the get them on, or buy a press, whichever comes first :)

RE: Taming recoil
 

Oh Good Lord..just go try a few new bows and buy one..yeesh :eek:

;)

RE: Taming recoil
 

Apparently you missed the entire point of this thread, as that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid :)

I've shot the outback, liked it a bunch, held and drew the bowtechs, really afraid to shoot them lest I like them a bunch too, held and drew the Parker Phoenix, same issue as the others... :)

Whilst I'd love to just pull the trigger and buy one, youngest needs braces, oldest is going to her first prom and entire family (femal) is rallying against me to take them on the grand daddy of all vacations...

It's looking more and more like one more season with my hornet for sure... Thought I'd play around a bit and see what could be done to tame recoil... :)

RE: Taming recoil
 

Jeff B. has a point, in that you certainly seem to be interested enough in the new bows to just bite the bullet and get one.;)

However, you have ample reason to stick with the Hornet as well. I admire your quest to make an older bow seem to have the shooting qualities of a brand new VFT style bow. I don't think it will happen, but I admire the quest.:)

The real question is... can you tame the "ferocious" recoil of the Hornet to your satisfaction?

I just got a 2000 Hoyt Havoc Redline, and the bow does have just a little "thump" to the shot compared to my Bowtech Pro 40 Wheely. BUT, it tuned easily, shoots great, and is very quiet. It would make a great hunting bow, just like your Hornet.

Take the Hornet to your shop and have the NV system put on the limb bolts and see what you think. It's the only way you are going to know if you will be satisfied.;)

Good luck, let us know how it turns out.:)

RE: Taming recoil
 

The standard 12 inch Stealth is weighted 60/40 and comes with the mounting stud in the light end....this places the mass weight out front!
A custom weighted Stealth would have the weight to the rear of the stabilizer! Both of the chambers will be to the rear! This would get the weight closer to the center of the riser and counter act some of the recoil!
It almost sounds like you need a counter weight,such as a rear mount stabilizer on that bow.......does it have a mounting hole for this?

RE: Taming recoil
 

Just wondering if perhaps mounting them in the quiver attachment holes would prove to be effective?

RE: Taming recoil
 

No :(

Before I go the custom route, I'll try the NVs on the limbs. If they don't make a big difference, chances are the stabilizer won't either. I don't want to put a ton of money into my experiment to save money... :)

Thanks for the info and help.

RE: Taming recoil
 

Backing my bow down to 64# (from 70#) has made a noticeable difference in felt recoil for the good. Speed should be around 280ish, trajectory is acceptable as is noise level, so all is good :)

Hopefully I'll get my bow to a shop tomorrow to try the NVs where they're supposed to go.

RE: Taming recoil
 

Ok, bow is at the shop. Guy there had no idea how much they might charge for the install, said "that's a lot of work". I said, "Yeah, you have to press it, take the string and cable off, take out two bolts, install the NVs, re-install bolts, put string and cable back on to these specs". He looked bewildered. cringe

My only hope is that his partner, who will be in later, is the technical one of the bunch, as after looking at my bow, he proclaimed "Jim (I think) will know what to do. He's been through the PSE school" implying my bow was made by PSE. I said "Actually, it's a Diamond". He looked bewildered.

I'm supposed to pick it up tommorrow. I told him if it was gonna be more than $20 forget it. It's in God's hands now...

RE: Taming recoil
 

Sounds to me like it's in the hands of a coupla semi-trained monkies.[8D]

RE: Taming recoil
 

As in, part monkey?

Or monkee's trained in a PSE semi?

Could be both :(

Yeah, Todd, I know. I need to quit being so fricking cheap and jsut buy a press... and a scale while I'm at it... :(

RE: Taming recoil
 

PSE dealer school is a fairly in-depth "training course" on bow tuning, set-up, & maintenance. From what I understand it's a pretty good course. For many dealers, like Len or Pinwheel it's probably not something they'll learn anything from, but for many, many dealers it's probably sorely needed.:(

At the end of the course dealers get to build thier own bow to take home with them (in essence a custom model can be made if wanted).

RE: Taming recoil
 

Jeff,

Interesting comments about the PSE school. I have been meaning to go for some time but never seem to have the time. The local shop owner though had an opinion that was almost entirely opposite of what you stated. He felt that 90% of the course was focused more on running a business with only 10% on actual technical bow work. Now I, personally, have not gone but would be interested to hear what others that have can say on this subject.

RB,

(While trying to ignore the blindness comment in another thread...;)) If I knew you were going to go through this much trouble I would have just suggested that you ship the bow to me and I would have installed them for you and shipped it back to you...;)

:D