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Draw length too short...#2, new pics

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Draw length too short...#2, new pics

Old 02-27-2004, 11:09 AM
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Alvo Nebraska USA
Posts: 2,057
Default RE: Draw length too short...#2, new pics

Silent, I'm with you on this one!![:@] I spent 45 minutes after getting home from work last night typing a post that I accidently deleted[:@] Man I was [email protected] You basically took the words from my mouth!!! If you're not helping archers, you're hurting archery! Those that think that they need paid for giving one minute of advise on this forum shouldn't waste their time with 16 paragraphs of why we're not worthy and how it's taking food out of their mouths. I've lost even more respect for "pro" shops due to this thread going sideways[:'(]
This same type of thread is seen almost daily on ArcheryTalk complete with pictures and no one get's bent about it. As a matter of fact, many top PROFESSIONAL shooters and WORLD CLASS tournament winners often join in the conversation and seem very much happy to do so! In my opinion, when these individuals join in, it only seems to strengthen their crediblilty.
Again, IF YOU"RE NOT HELPING ARCHERS, YOU"RE HURTING ARCHERY. Anywhere, anytime and by any means. Personal training from PROFESSIONALS, at their establishment should be expected to be paid for.
walks with a gimp is offline  
Old 02-27-2004, 11:47 AM
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mountain View Ca USA
Posts: 105
Default RE: Draw length too short...#2, new pics

my .02 cents.
Len and pinwheel have supplied valuable knowledge for many years on this board and others. However after this latest confrontation I wouldn't blame either one of them if they didn't post on here again. I'm going state up front that I'm biased because Len is my bowsmith and I send my bows across the country to get them worked on (along with 3 other bowhunters). I've also conversed with Kevin and he comes across as stand up individual that know his business. Len has told me numerous times that I need to find someone local to help me with form and do the work on my bows. Sorry Len it just isn't going to happen, our relationship is important and the work your shop performs is so far ahead of what the local shops around here can do. I for one have been able to make the leap and get my work done on my equipment without having be there in person. One of the major benefits is if all of sudden I'm having a problem I can pick up the phone or send an email and know that Len is going to give me sound advice.
One of the reasons that so many archers end up on here is that they think that they can figure all the tuning, form and a whole host of other archery related issues on there own. For those that prefer that method, good luck. Personally I don't have the time or inclination to do that. I don't tune my car, fix major plumbing problems or do my taxes. There are professional out there that can do it faster and better. Archery is no different.
Good luck with getting help on your form, and I apologize for hijacking your thread.
Roland from Calif. is offline  
Old 02-27-2004, 02:42 PM
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
Default RE: Draw length too short...#2, new pics


How many times does one have to remind others of the amount of FREE information that has been given away by them on this board and others over MANY years? Yet it is never enough for some is it and we are made out to be the bad guy? All we get are more backstabs and flat out slaps, with some getting way out of hand with all of thier banter and personal agendas. I've been around this board and others a LONG time just as Len has, and have had to deal with digs, slaps, and character slams a million times. Yet I am still here. Why would anyone go thru all of that? Because I truly love the sport, that's why. I feel there can be a future for our children and theirs in it if we go in the correct direction and put our faith in reputable shops/techs/instructors which will help our industry grow, and if some weren't so stubborn thinking they can do it all themselves, we could be that much further ahead with an increased demand for more techs and instructors and thus more shops, more equipment--this makes for a solid, growing industry that everyone will benefit from! Trail and error on ones' own only goes so far, take it from someone who has been there and done that. Every industry has professionals who teach. I guess some just cannot fathom that....

I don't get it gimpy, what's up--- You come on to slam every post I make, no matter the issue, and I really do not know what it is I ever did to you but it's plainly obvious you certainly feel there is something.......So my friend, have a beer on me, enjoy the sunset, relax. ooohhhhmmmm.

If some don't like the fact that I do this for a living and have to make money at it to survive, oh well, I cannot tell my family to starve because you want totally free info at all times..[] I suggest to those people that they take a walk in my shoes for about a month and I can assure you that they would change their tune. I find it shocking that some would even think that I do not help archers---- helping archers is what I do for a living, and as stated the info given is many times in fact, FREE. But I do have to earn a living and feed my family from this sport, and for some reason some just do not grasp that. As Len stated, it is a fine line we walk, and even tho we give much away for free that took us years to learn long before the internet was ever available, it is never enough to some it seems and we regularly get slammed at every turn--- If they think they could teach everyone everything, survive at doing it for free and feed their family from it at the same time, be my guest...see how long it is before they change their mind or go do something else because they're starving. Very easy to try to judge others when you yourself are not dependent upon this industry for survival.

So this is where I draw my line with them. I will of course continue to go out of my way to help those who I feel truly appreciate the help when it is something I can help them with, whether on the messageboards or in my shop, but teaching someone correct drawlength and form can NOT be done by a few still pics on a messagboard system-- so in those cases I will continue to suggest just as I have done here--- That person needs to get to someone who can stand there with a trained eye and watch various movements, look from different angles at stance, grip, and form, and discuss these things with the individual, then discern other issues that may not be apparent through pics such as poundage, release issues, overall stature and muscle issues, and many other things. Sometimes even videotape them so we can review at a later date. THAT is why I mentioned he should see a reputable tech now.(then of course immediately got flamed) It can save him alot of time and money spent on trying different things on his own that may not work for him and thus frustrate him, and will get him to where he wants to go that much faster in the long run..

And to those who simply like to bust my chops because they are having fun doing so or have some sort of agenda, guess what? I'm not going anywhere! Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
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Old 02-27-2004, 04:25 PM
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Dubbya's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Norman OK USA
Posts: 3,318
Default RE: Draw length too short...#2, new pics

alright let's wrap this up.

Len, as stated earlier I do appreciate your opinions and your knowledge. All that I'm saying here is that I simply asked a question about my drawlength, and you're response has to do with why you can't answer. I'm intelligent enough to realize that you are a very knowledgeable person when it comes to archery, and because of people like you, I ask questions. I'm not questioning your "right" to participate. I'm just saying that without people offering their advice (good or bad) this site wouldn't be. I will take it upon myself to determine what is good and bad, as for the release, I feel that it is a little long. so i may get another.

I completely understand that you (like the rest of us) are trying to put food on the table and I respect that. I hope that there are no hard feelings that come from this, as it was not intended that way. my ears are open to your opinion as well as everyone else's. Thanks to everyone.
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Old 02-27-2004, 09:18 PM
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Baltimore Maryland USA
Posts: 1,385
Default RE: Draw length too short...#2, new pics

I admit, it's gotten out-of-hand.

Yes, you asked a simple question and I gave you a basic answer on your other thread. My responses on this thread was not directed toward you, but toward those who were badgering/slamming PW12.

You should and will get a lot of information here. Some of it will be good, but some may well be misleading. I will give, as I have in the past, what I feel that I can. Everyone is happy when I'm giving information, many are critical to the point of insulting when I elect to clam up.

There are no hard feelings from this end. Why should there be? I didn't find you to be insulting, just curious as to my responses and how they related directly to you.

Take care and good shooting.
Len in Maryland is offline  

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