BossHog

Have to aggree with mike on this one!

muzzyman88

Here is my take. I originally shot dual cams for year with good success. I then switched to a solocam with good success and now, I'm on my first Hybrid system, the Cam 1/2, again, with good success.

The evolution of the cam systems is a big deal these days, especially for the "big 3". Both the single and the hybrid systems work well. I do however suspect that the hybrid systems may be more efficient than the solos.

As far as the nock travel issue. Unless they can nail down perfect nock travel in the future, the big key is not level travel, but consistant travel. I think either the solo or hybrid can accomplish consistant travel.

I am pretty loyal to Hoyt, they've been good to me and I shoot them well. If Hoyt was still plugging away with the solo, I'd still be shooting them. The cam system was not a factor. It was a nice change to shoot a C.5 though.

One question I have about the current solo lineups is this. When Hoyt was still using the Versacam, they used a dual track idler. They used 3 similar length strings and cables on the bow instead of one giant string that returned as a cable and short yoke. The shorter length string, much like a dual cam string, was less apt to stretch and twist than the longer counterpart. Of course this can be almost completely eliminated with the new high end strings like WC and such. Isn't that a better system than the current solos? Why aren't others using this?

PABowhntr

Two reasons come to mind...if I had to hazard a guess. One, you said it yourself, string materials have come along way and string stretch is not as much of an issue on any style of cam bow. Two, a round dual track idler cannot correct nock travel problems typically associated with many single cam designs.

walks with a gimp

I have some very good friends that don't go hungry and they shoot just a stick and a string and a very sharp broadhead. Pick your cam type and hype it all you want because it will do the job. I've never in 31 years and 40 some odd bows had one that I couldn't shoot well. The two bows I had when I was hunting a very good area killed many deer for me at a time in my life when my family and I really did need something to eat. One was a Jennings model "W" 4 wheeler and the other was a PSE Pacer It's all marketing guys, the new bows all are light years ahead of bows 20 and 30 years ago and back then "they" were deadly accurate and long before anyone knew much about nock travel

PABowhntr

That is the smartest thing I have heard anyone say in a long while.

Pinwheel 12

Mike-

You are correct---this is a good place to pick up TECHNICAL aspects of each system---IF one wants to listen and learn from TECHS. Problem is, everyone here is not a tech for one, and everyone is loyal to what they shoot also--- being passionate about the sport most will defend mightily what they shoot or even what they BELIEVE to be true. Shooting a 6" group at 20 yds will not tell you how easy a bow will tune or how forgiving it is or whatever---it may be capable of taking game at that range, but what happens to that 6" group when you stretch it out, or add noise, short brace heights, etc, etc. etc? many unanswered questions that many will simply overlook due to their level of ability, loyalty, or preferences..

SO--

The ONLY way to learn the true technical aspects of each system is to read technical results from tests conducted by non-biased industry techs who know what they're talking about---this way one can find out which bow performs better in certain areas to fit the individual archers' preferred application(s). There are bows that are faster, bows that are quieter, bows that have better geometry, cam systems that are nasty to draw, some that are smooth, some that kick like a mule, some that have terrible efficiency, some with terrible consistency, some that are great, and some that just plain suck! Any person can go out and spend a hard-earned $600-800 and to justify that purchase rant and rave about how great that bow is. Maybe it even IS the best thing they have shot to date---so for them, what they believe is true in their minds. However, having said that, and being one who constantly tests equipment using actual equipment for measuring certain aspects, I know that for the most part those individual thoughts and biases can be fleeting as things constantly improve and progress. We did hit a wall for about a decade with the massive advertising hype of conventional solocams, but now finally the technology is starting to win out and move forward again, and more and more of the general public is also realizing what we techs have in the past few years.

I got a few e-mails and one in-depth phone call last night after posting on this subject with my promises of a full and in-depth comparason of each of the designs-- and because of them I must say it is in my best interest to stand down on this and let you all decide for yourselves what you feel is best for you. However no matter what I do not state here I will still stand by my original statement that I believe the TRUE hybrid system with perfectly round cable track(CPS, Omega, Tru-Arc, etc) retains the best qualities of both the conventional solocam and twin cam properties without carrying their fallicies and exhibits excellent nock travel, and this system will prevail as the #1 system on the market in the years to come. NEVER have I set-up a system so easy to tune and one that will shoot such incredible groups with a variety of arrow spines by simply setting it up according to the instructions provided by the factory. I have discussed these attributes with many other techs recently, and we all concur that the next step forward is here now, and manufacturers will be working with this design over all others simply because there is much more room to move within it technically.

I'm sorry that I must leave you hanging on this one, but as stated it is in my best interest to do so and not expound in too great a detail. Good shooting, Pinwheel 12

Straightarrow

From my experience I've concluded that they all shoot equally well when timed and tuned properly with a correctly spined arrow. Each is different in the ease of getting to that point. I've always found twins to be more critical of timing. It took longer to get them timed and was more critical that they stay there. An out of time twin shoots a broadhead terribly. In the past, they were louder, had more vibration and were best in the hands of a knowledgable archer. Today, most of these are no longer issues, but syncronization is still critical and those shooting stock strings will probably still experience problems.

Singles are easier to get tuned and syncronization is not an issue. In the past, they had issues with string creep and stretch. An archer who knew the basics, could easily check this and keep the bow tuned. It was simply a matter of adding twists to the string to maintain proper length and checking the position of the string nock periodically. With a good string, this is no longer an issue. My last string only stretched 1/16" with 6 months of shooting. Some singles do shoot broadheads better then others. This may be an issue with nock travel on those particular manufacturer's cams.

On hybrids, there are timing marks, so timing is necessary, though not nearly as critical as on a twin. Singles are easier to time, in my opinion. Hybrids have fewer string issues then the others, because they're shorter and less critical of problems with stretch or creep. From what I read, nock travel is not an issue, but then again nock travel does not appear to be much of an issue on a timed twin, or most late model singles. However, I would have to rate hybrids as tops in nock travel. The real question: Just how important is nock travel? I have a feeling it's much more important when shooting broadheads, then when shooting field tips.

In my opinion, rating one better then the other, comes down to the cams inherent forgiveness and the ease of getting it timed and tuned. They can all be made to shoot equally well. That's been proven. Some will simply take a bit more work or more expertise to get it to that level and to keep it there. I would rate the hybrids as slightly ahead of singles in this department. Twins bring up the rear, in my opinion. They shoot great when you get everything perfect, but the average bowhunter doesn't have a clue how to accomplish or maintain this. It only takes a slight movement on one cable to throw the cams out of sync. causing the bow to shoot a broadhead terribly. An archer who knows little about timing and tuning, is better off with a hybrid in my opinion. A knowledgable archer will have any of them shooting fine, and so will a good bow shop.

PABowhntr

Straightarrow,

Excellent post. I tend to agree completely with your comments. I have found much the same thing in my experiences with the different cam styles.

Black Frog

Another reason why I prefer hybrids and twins is the string lengths and peep "finicky-ness". With modern string materials the string creep isn't a big problem once it is settled in, but installation of a peep (one that does NOT use the rubber tubing) can still be irratating because of the string that is nearly 100" long.

And when you're trying to get that last 1/8 of a turn to get your peep jussssst in the right orientation at full draw, and you either change a strand or two from one side to the other, or you give the string a half a twist, you have to deal with 100" of string settling back in to get it right. It's much easier, at least for me, to deal with normal string lengths of twins and hybrids.

ijimmy

I have found this statement to be very true . Pinwheel , being a dealer does not want to burn bridges , or ditz anyone . But I will say this , hoyts system is very diferant than the systems mentioned , not haveing a concentric top wheel , and as such is more like a twin cam than a hybred . I am no expert by any means , but its a snap for me to tune the type of system pinwheel is speeking of , or a twincam allso , but I found hoyts system imposable for myself to get a desent tune with . I know they kicked but in the tournys this year , but for myself I would rather have a true twin cam or one of the true hybred systems , as in my experance they are much easyer to get "a good tune" with .