400+ fps!!!!!
06-06-2003, 11:40 PM
#11
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dunlap TN USA
Posts: 115
RE: 400+ fps!!!!!
Funny guy another uneducated archer! that probably goes by what he hears also has anybody noticed that the ibo will let you shoot as light of an arrow it takes as long as you dont go over 280fps this rules has been in effect for a couple years and the asa has always been like this just food for thought
06-07-2003, 05:26 AM
#12
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Walker LA USA
Posts: 443
RE: 400+ fps!!!!!
Most of the people shooting less than 5 grains are women and kids shooting low energy set ups trying to get decent speed for 3d.You take your 70# hunting bow making 65++ ft lbs of energy and shoot 3 grains a # and see how long the bow holds up.If the energy is' nt absorbed by the arrow it is soaked up by the bow.Pretty cheesy marketing ploy if you ask me.
CB
CB
06-07-2003, 07:08 AM
#13
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: KY USA
Posts: 779
RE: 400+ fps!!!!!
fastpassthrough, I would question the motives of any company using such light weight arrows to try & sell a product. They may be trying to show the bow can take a pounding BUT those advertisements can be missleading & a lot of people are going to try & shoot those speeds. I also saw they are selling some new really light arrows 5.5 grainins per inch if I remember right.....that says to me they are willing to risk their customers well being to promote their high speeds. 
Thats just my opinion so please don' t take that as anything personal or anything against the bow. I just feel safty is the number one thing any company should shoot for, they owe it to their customers!
Thats just my opinion so please don' t take that as anything personal or anything against the bow. I just feel safty is the number one thing any company should shoot for, they owe it to their customers!
06-07-2003, 10:26 AM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pine Hill Alabama USA
Posts: 1,280
RE: 400+ fps!!!!!
Funny guy another uneducated archer!
Any speed bow from PSE, Hoyt, Mathews or Bowtec will shoot these same speeds with an arrow that light. They just aren' t irresponsible enought to in any way seem to advocate such a thing. HCA should issue a statement explaining the dangers of this and cut out all this misleading BS about a 400 fps bow. Till they do I have no respect for them as a company.
06-08-2003, 01:35 PM
#15
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 104
RE: 400+ fps!!!!!
I know there' s marketing gimmicks out there but I don' t think they would put anyone at risk cause if they just shot them a couple of times and said well i guess 400fps is good enough without really ever testing it then they probably want be in business any more because they' ll be at the court house more than the factory. It' s just one of those things you' ll just have to wait and see. I believe I' ll give them a couple of years to see what other people say about them. I personally shoot a martin panther but my uncle is dealer and he got all the bow companies archery books in and I just happened to notice it. They' re making arrows for it that are 3 gpi. They claim they' re making everything out of military grade carbon ( i don' t know what types of carbon there is) even they' re shafts which have 5 layers of carbon so it must be tougher and lighter than the carbon they were using. Just have to wait and see and be open minded about it I guess because I think the technology is there to greatly improve the bows that are made this day and age.
06-08-2003, 01:43 PM
#16
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: 400+ fps!!!!!
Do not be mislead. Bow failure due to over-stress targets three specific points---the riser, the limbs, and the string/harness. The weakest link in all of these in recent years has been the aluminum riser. String/harness materials have developed over the last 10 years into some of the strongest materials with little to no stretch, and extreme tolerance and breakage strength. Limbs likewise have been further advanced/developed in recent years with carbon reinforcing, kevlar, and whatnot so they will withstand many times the stress they used to with triple the cycle capacity before failure.
The new carbon riser design originally developed by Diamond Archery and later sold to High Country is a multi-layer design used in many parts of the aerospace industry, super-strong with exceptional dampening properties. This makes for the final piece of the puzzle with which to build a bow capable of withstanding much higher stress levels without failure. We as an industry have been " running the edge" speed-wise since day one, first it was " lightweight" aluminums with dacron strings and wood laminate limbs and risers and whopping spedds of 210fps, then AMO standard at 6 grains was the " norm" for the next generation of cast risers and fiberglass limbs and speeds to 280, and then the next generation at IBO legal 5 grains, with machined aluminum and first generation carbon laminate limbs. Bowtech hit 340-350fps with this combo. Now the natrual progression continues with stronger materials that will take more stress, and higher speeds come from it. Pretty simple reasoning, really.
It is not fair to crucify the next generation of technology because you are too set in your ways to believe it can ever happen, or are loyal to a product that may in fact be upstaged at some point. Technology progresses, always has, always will, and we as a society will always " run the edge" when it comes to speed. It wasn' t long ago that we thought it was insane to think a bow could ever shoot 300fps no matter what it was shooting for an arrow, and even less time ago when the same thing was thought of 350fps. 400fps at no matter what grain arrow is just the next natural progression. I do believe it was stated above that this would mean that a bow that CAN shoot 400fps without failure for many thousands of cycles at 3 grains per pound will be relatively safe at 4grains or 4.5 and I agree, especially with the newer and stronger materials being used throughout.
I do not condone shooting 3 grains per lb but to be honest even I used to shoot 210 g carbon arrows out of 46" ATA bows with 8" brace heights at 85+lbs and getting around 340fps not all that long ago, so I feel it is up to each individual to know what they are getting themselves into when they choose their equipment. At the same time if they have the " next wave" of technology sitting in their lap and one that works, companies then shouldn' t be afraid to go out and advertise it either. I also was there when the bow blew up at the HCA booth at the ATA show, and IMHO that could' ve happened to anyone there that weekend. HCA had tested this product through many thousands of cycles out of many bows at the factory, and was more than willing to put it out for everyone to see. As they say $hit happens sometimes, and it happened at an inopportune time for HCA. That' s my take on that. I firmly feel the bow will hold up fine at 4-4.5 g, and at that it will be every bit as fast as any other bow on the market, yet still offer that fabulous carbon riser technology and dampening properties. Technology moves forward...
Just my own thoughts, Pinwheel 12
The new carbon riser design originally developed by Diamond Archery and later sold to High Country is a multi-layer design used in many parts of the aerospace industry, super-strong with exceptional dampening properties. This makes for the final piece of the puzzle with which to build a bow capable of withstanding much higher stress levels without failure. We as an industry have been " running the edge" speed-wise since day one, first it was " lightweight" aluminums with dacron strings and wood laminate limbs and risers and whopping spedds of 210fps, then AMO standard at 6 grains was the " norm" for the next generation of cast risers and fiberglass limbs and speeds to 280, and then the next generation at IBO legal 5 grains, with machined aluminum and first generation carbon laminate limbs. Bowtech hit 340-350fps with this combo. Now the natrual progression continues with stronger materials that will take more stress, and higher speeds come from it. Pretty simple reasoning, really.
It is not fair to crucify the next generation of technology because you are too set in your ways to believe it can ever happen, or are loyal to a product that may in fact be upstaged at some point. Technology progresses, always has, always will, and we as a society will always " run the edge" when it comes to speed. It wasn' t long ago that we thought it was insane to think a bow could ever shoot 300fps no matter what it was shooting for an arrow, and even less time ago when the same thing was thought of 350fps. 400fps at no matter what grain arrow is just the next natural progression. I do believe it was stated above that this would mean that a bow that CAN shoot 400fps without failure for many thousands of cycles at 3 grains per pound will be relatively safe at 4grains or 4.5 and I agree, especially with the newer and stronger materials being used throughout.
I do not condone shooting 3 grains per lb but to be honest even I used to shoot 210 g carbon arrows out of 46" ATA bows with 8" brace heights at 85+lbs and getting around 340fps not all that long ago, so I feel it is up to each individual to know what they are getting themselves into when they choose their equipment. At the same time if they have the " next wave" of technology sitting in their lap and one that works, companies then shouldn' t be afraid to go out and advertise it either. I also was there when the bow blew up at the HCA booth at the ATA show, and IMHO that could' ve happened to anyone there that weekend. HCA had tested this product through many thousands of cycles out of many bows at the factory, and was more than willing to put it out for everyone to see. As they say $hit happens sometimes, and it happened at an inopportune time for HCA. That' s my take on that. I firmly feel the bow will hold up fine at 4-4.5 g, and at that it will be every bit as fast as any other bow on the market, yet still offer that fabulous carbon riser technology and dampening properties. Technology moves forward...
Just my own thoughts, Pinwheel 12
06-08-2003, 03:50 PM
#17
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Posts: 65
RE: 400+ fps!!!!!
I am with pinwheel on this.
As a general rule it is difficult to introduce new technology, in any industry. So here is HCA with their carbon risers, making very lightweight bows. How do they show the bows have the strength required, and how do they demonstrate that the dampening characteristics of carbon fiber are ideal for risers? Seems to me the method they chose to make a splash has worked. I don' t think that archers have such low IQ' s that they are going to go out there and deliberately shoot dangerous setups.
As far as I know the " speed records" held by various people in recent years were obtained using bows that had to be rebuilt after each shot. The resumes just say " ... holds record for fastest ..." . I don' t detect any shyness about using the experience as a marketing tool, to emphasize the design skills of the record holder.
Is there something about the people involved with HCA that I don' t know, that makes them targets for such criticism?
As a general rule it is difficult to introduce new technology, in any industry. So here is HCA with their carbon risers, making very lightweight bows. How do they show the bows have the strength required, and how do they demonstrate that the dampening characteristics of carbon fiber are ideal for risers? Seems to me the method they chose to make a splash has worked. I don' t think that archers have such low IQ' s that they are going to go out there and deliberately shoot dangerous setups.
As far as I know the " speed records" held by various people in recent years were obtained using bows that had to be rebuilt after each shot. The resumes just say " ... holds record for fastest ..." . I don' t detect any shyness about using the experience as a marketing tool, to emphasize the design skills of the record holder.
Is there something about the people involved with HCA that I don' t know, that makes them targets for such criticism?
06-08-2003, 07:22 PM
#19
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CHARDON OHIO USA
Posts: 55
RE: 400+ fps!!!!!
Ya know what is realy funny about this???? Some of us here have been shooting for a long time in this speed game.. If one or another bow manufacturer never took the first step in speed related projects. Then we would still be shooting 250fps with alum. arrows. (imo) Dont knock the tec. guys who have made this sport alot of fun. Just a few years ago you only had a AMO rated speed, now there is a IBO rated speed. Man I was shooting the IBO' s before their rated speed ever hit the market.. Yep I was one of those that was shooting 90# a 2013 arrow with a cut down nibb and a overdraw... This is one of the reasons rules are put in, and technology has gone where it is today.. Oh yea do you guys remember when IBO rules were out to 60 yards??? Did you shoot at Nelsonville ?? Did you shoot the 70+ yard 2-d moose.. one more thing about technology------ Do you remember when just about everyone that shoots archery did not have a home computer???
Then we all talked on landlines. And the tec guys still made fast and safe bows... what a thought
Then we all talked on landlines. And the tec guys still made fast and safe bows... what a thought