Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

I was shooting at Gander Mountain the other night and there was a guy shooting CX Maxima 250s with 75 grain tips trough a 70# 82nd Airborne with a 29" DL. I don't remember how much he said they weighed, but they are clearly less than 5 gpp. Wouldn't that void the warranty on the limbs? On to under-spining. I know for a fact that he should be shooting 350s at those specs. Couldn't he possibly snap an arrow into my arm if I am on the line with him? I asked him why he is doing this and he said, "to get to 350 fps." This isn't a young guy, he is at least 40 and a total jerk.

He said that as long as he cuts the arrows shorter (28"), they are not under-spined. He also said that as long as you have a string stop, the 5 gpp rule does not apply.

I tried to explain to him that my arrows carry more momentum than his because they weigh more, but he wasn't having any of it. What do you guys make of this?

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

I am calling out BigBulls, MeanV2 and any other Archer staff member/ dealer.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

Yes

That could happen but he is more danger to himself if the arrow lets goupon release he might end up with an arrow through his bow hand.

I have never heard such a thing.

Well I think he is full of it and I don't mean ice cream either:D

I think you answered your final question with this quote;):)

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

BS. I like Kanga's signature for this one;
"Ignorance is content to stand still with its back to the truth."

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

I am the kind of guy that can get allong with just about anyone. He just has this way about him that I cannot stand. I let him shoot one of my arrows through his bow and he said, "I think mine is faster." We never even chronographed them. BTY, I knew he was more likely to hurt himself, but I wasn't worried about that.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

Any Pro staff guys want to give there .02?

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

I know, perfect.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

I agree with this entire post.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

Kanga covered it very well.

I'll throw a few pennies at it as well though.

Long and short of it is that even though he might be shooting faster with an underspined arrow, there are light weight arrows that are the correct spine that will not only shoot much faster, andbe safer, but will also be much more accurate, espeically with broadheads.

Some of y'all have probably read my story about buying arrows when I was in college. Difference was back then I was ignorant to what I needed, or what spine was... or what those numbers on the arrow meant... ignorance is one thing, and its forgiveable and excusable, especially when the offending party admits it and asks to be guided.

But as Ron White said, You can't fix stupid.... doing such a thing on purpose would be like gargling with nitro glycerine in my opinion. Granted the odds of it happening with good, intact arrows are slim... because like most things in this modern world of class action lawsuits, arrows are typically over built.. just like tree stands....and having 75gr heads improves his odds... but if he ain't flexing those babies before every shot then he is just shooting on borrowed time.

Personally Black stick... I don't like standing directly next to anyone while they are shooting... there is always a what if in my mind. I had a customer shooting a crossbow about a year ago and it blew up while I was standing there... something hit me on the cheek... just below the eye... don't know what it was... didn't even leave a mark... but it scared me.... I keep my happy self three steps closer to the door because of it...;)

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

Good Plan.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

X2!!

In Archery as well as many other things in life you will run across the ignorant know it alls. Although it can be a chore best thing to do is ignore them.;)

Dan

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

Not to hijack the thread Black Stick, but what do you guys do if you in between arrow selection. I'm shooting 27" arrows and 70Lbs, always seems to fall in between for carbon express arrows. I've hunted both 250s and 350s. Any particular insight?

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

Kelly.

Whenever you have a broad head on the front of an arrow go for the stiffer spine one, it's better to be slightly stiff than slightly weak when it comes to spine.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

The guy is obviously just some wannabe speed freak with no sense of tuning.

Cutting the arrow shorter (if cut on both ends front and rear) will improve the straightness of the arrow, but it wont change the overall spine. he has no regard for his or others safety adn is clearly ignorant on correct spine issues. Shooting under 5gpp will void the warranty. with my Victory setup i shoot at 5.01 gpp. I still only get 320fps. i have to cut my arrows long as well to maintain the 5gpp. he should do the same or he is destined to have an arrow in his bow hand and possibly someone elses. just my .02.

i have no idea about the string stop theory and where hes coming from. i cannot think of any physical property change of a string stop that would change the rules.
Derek

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

I can tell you a String Suppressor/Stop in No way, shape, or form does it change the need to shoot 5 grains per pound.

Most hunters would be much better off shooting 6 grains per pound.

Dan

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

6 or more imo. like i said the victory said up is target only anyways. ihave no clue what my hunting arrows are.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

He thinks that it takes some of the stress off the limbs and will keep it from blowing up. He wanted to dry fire it to prove it to me. I told him that I'd rather see the limbs attached to his bow instead of in the fishing department.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

I agree with Kanga. I prefer to be sure and use the tougher spine than risk it with the lighter arrows. Besides a heavier arrow has more momentum and therefore will get better penetration.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

That is exactly why I called you out. I thought this was the case, but I didn't know for sure. That's why I asked. Thanks.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

Don't walk away, RUN!!!!

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

I'm sure that a bow as powerful as an 82nd would blow up pretty easily. As far as the limbs ending up in the fishing department, I have seen it happen. This guy brought in an old PSE, and we were adjusting his peep. He drew back with the release and accidentally hit the trigger. That was the first time I had ever seen a bow blow up. Luckily no one got hurt.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

How does Bowtech know to void the warranty on he limbs? No representative has seen this guy pulling this stunt as far as I know.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

BS: You should have let him dry fire his bow. I know ya hate to see a good bow like that get ruined but hey -- nothing like teaching a snotty prick a lesson. I would have ran out of the store while he did it then came back in and pointed and laghed while he was sweeping the pieces off the floor. Its all good cause when you are older you won't have to explain to your grandkids why you have a gigantic hole in your arm or why your hand is missing -- bet he will. Maybe get his name and report him to the manufactuer? Just a though

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

No, I'm not gonna rat him out unless that is the only way. He is a true jerk. He shot a 100 lb black bear this past season right in the rear end. Said it took him forever to find it. He blamed it all on the broadhead (G5 Strikers). I use them have have had great success with them. This guy is a real piece of work.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

Yeah he sounds like a tool to say the least. As far as BT knowing that he was shooting underspined arrows... they would probably never find out. If I dry fired my bow tomorrow and blew it up, I would honestly go to my pro shop and tell them I had a nock break when i shot and he would replace the limbs for me. BT has so many limb cases already that they wouldnt think twice about sending him new ones IMHO. Im not in anyway downing BT b/c obviously i love them, and shoot them. My dealer was telling me about a guy who bought an 82nd from him and when he got home with it that day it blew the bottom limb out after like ten shots or so. My dealer called BT and they sent him out a set of limbs the next day.
Derek

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

I left my 82nd in my Jeep all day over the summer and cracked my limb. Lesson learned. They got me my 60-70# Mossey Oak Obsession limbs in only three days. The toughest three days I've had since I got it.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

Kelly,
You can shoot a little longer arrow to balance out the spine if you need to. I don't know why so many guys "think" they have to shoot a 26" arrow out of their 28" draw bow, butthat's really not the case. They could shoot a 30" arrow out of it too, and may be better off if they can get a 30" arrow "right-spined" vs. a 26" arrow under or overspined.

I'm a firm believer that keeping and extra 1-2" on an arrow to get you into the right spine is far better than adding tip weight to try to weaken the spine on a shorter arrow, and ballistically an arrow flying out of a compound seems to hold it's energy a little better than a short bolt flying out of a crossbow from my experiences.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

My arrows are 3" past the tip of my Limb Driver when I am at full draw. Excellent advice Doug.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

He is underspined, but can get away with it with a short enough arrow and light enough tip.

The only saving grace he has on gr/lb is 29" draw length. He is not that far from 5gr/lb. He is more like 4.7gr/lb. I seriously doubt he is pulling out 350fps.

Anyway it goes, I like 7gpp. It safe, quieter, less handshock. Just make sense.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

I guess that he wanted to do whatever it took to get to 350 assuming that he is actually shooting 350.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

I bet his bow is LOUD!!! With my Victory arrows at 5.01gpp my bow is significantly louder.
Derek

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

Well, I have only heard it in the Gander Mountain Range. The acoustics in there are terrible and even the quietest bow would sound like a 30-06. Not a fair assessment.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

Still, it probably is very loud.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

Doug, I think most of it has to do with BH price these days. I know it does for me. I mostly shoot traditional and changing head wieght expensive. The days of 25 dollars for 6 BH's are over. So most like to use what that got, which is typically 100gr and for some 125gr. So you do like most of us and make the arrow work for the head. Which is easy enough, just cut it down. And with most rests these days, one can shoot 3" at most shorter than thier draw.

I litterly own a fortune in bh's for trad. From 100gr to 125gr, to 150gr, to 190gr, to 200gr.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

I might buy that 200 grain to put on my desk like a novelty pen.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

They are muzzy phantoms. I use em on my longbow arrows.

I also use Simmons interceptors 190gr.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

BC's CORRECT!!!!

Actually, according to OT2, if he were down to 26.5" he'd be coming in just a hair on the weak side, and 26.25 would hit right midline, but the weight ain't gonna be anywhere near what would be recommended from what I'm punching in. But that's his prerogative, he's certainly putting a lot of stress on his bow doing that and putting himself and potentially others at risk.

BC,
I also agree with you about the prices AND availability. It's getting hard to find 125gr head a lot of places with much variety. Heck, even in a couple of the "PRO" shops I've been in it's hard to find 125's, and anything heavier is pretty much "special order."

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

Exactly. I wanted to get some Simmons 185 grains for my old Hoyt before I knew more about the advantages of smaller broadheads. There wasn't a store that had them.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

I know I am coming into this thread late but I really can't add anything to what every one else has said. Just reiterate it one more time. ;)

He is overstressing his bow and voiding his warranty, stressing his strings and cables, under spined arrows, loud bow......... the list is long.

RE: Correctly Spined and weighted arrows?
 

Thanks, I always appreciate your input.