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Wanting to try feathers
Im wanting to try feathers for next year maybe even for this year but i know absolutely nothing about them. I was looking in cabelas and there is left wing and right wing, whats the difference? Also there is 5",4", and 3", which would be the best or does it matter? I have a jo jan fletcher with a right helical clamp, can i fletch them with that? Sorry for my ignorance but i know nothing about them, thanks in advance for any help.
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RE: Wanting to try feathers
ORIGINAL: MOhunter46 Im wanting to try feathers for next year maybe even for this year but i know absolutely nothing about them. I was looking in cabelas and there is left wing and right wing, whats the difference? Also there is 5",4", and 3", which would be the best or does it matter? I have a jo jan fletcher with a right helical clamp, can i fletch them with that? Sorry for my ignorance but i know nothing about them, thanks in advance for any help. Since you have a right helical clamp, you are going to want to buy and use ONLY right wing feathers. The difference being which side of a turkey they come off of. Since feathers have a natural curve to them, they will make an arrow spin in different directions... if you were to fletch a left wing feather with a right helical (if it would stick) you'd have two forces trying to fight each other... I suspect your arrow would fly like a bottle rocket with no stick. Honestly, length doesn't matter all that much unless you are using some haneous fixed blade head like a buck blaster or a gobbler gillotine. 4" will work fine... or you could try out the 2" Razor feathers. Feathers are expensive, and if you don't fletch them properly, they won't stay on worth a hoot. Even at that, they are not overwhelmingly tough. They do, however, stabilize an arrow faster and probably better than just about anything ever made by man. A bit on the noisy side, and you'll want use waterproofing too. |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
ORIGINAL: SwampCollie ORIGINAL: MOhunter46 Im wanting to try feathers for next year maybe even for this year but i know absolutely nothing about them. I was looking in cabelas and there is left wing and right wing, whats the difference? Also there is 5",4", and 3", which would be the best or does it matter? I have a jo jan fletcher with a right helical clamp, can i fletch them with that? Sorry for my ignorance but i know nothing about them, thanks in advance for any help. Since you have a right helical clamp, you are going to want to buy and use ONLY right wing feathers. The difference being which side of a turkey they come off of. Since feathers have a natural curve to them, they will make an arrow spin in different directions... if you were to fletch a left wing feather with a right helical (if it would stick) you'd have two forces trying to fight each other... I suspect your arrow would fly like a bottle rocket with no stick. Honestly, length doesn't matter all that much unless you are using some haneous fixed blade head like a buck blaster or a gobbler gillotine. 4" will work fine... or you could try out the 2" Razor feathers. Feathers are expensive, and if you don't fletch them properly, they won't stay on worth a hoot. Even at that, they are not overwhelmingly tough. They do, however, stabilize an arrow faster and probably better than just about anything ever made by man. A bit on the noisy side, and you'll want use waterproofing too. |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
Thanks for swampcollie's reply-I had forgotten about that of the right vs left wing thing since I only use right wing for my right helical for so long,it's been AGES since I've ordered feathers. What I personally use is 5" helical and NEVER have a problem after tuning bow/arrows with flight with almost any broadhead I've ever tried.All I can say is to my way of thinking,there's no such thing as too much stability or too much accuracy. Sure,other setups or vanes will do the job,but I seriously doubt that my 5" helical feathers are slowing my arrows down much within my acceptable range.
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RE: Wanting to try feathers
I shoot 4in parabolics out of my GTO. Yet to find anything as accurate as these...
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RE: Wanting to try feathers
All good info and advise here. One thing to add is that shield cut stabilize a bit better than parabolic (rounded) cut and they look cooler too. I haven't seen any better performance from 5" than from 4" so my preference on my traditional shafts is for 4". If I were in a drier climate I'd use feathers exclusively but they don't hold up well to moisture and being dragged through the brush constantly.
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RE: Wanting to try feathers
Not to argue with ya Kodiak, but parabolics are also considerably quieter, so they both have their trade offs. I do like the looks of the shield though.
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RE: Wanting to try feathers
I know i made this thread a long time ago but i have another question. I read on another thread that i will lose down range KE if i switch to feathers. So wouldn't this be bad since im using the rage 2 blade? And im only pulling 60lbs so that dosent help either. How much will i lose say at 30yrds? 40yrds? Or am i over thinking this too much?
Thanks again, Wayne |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
ORIGINAL: MOhunter46 I know i made this thread a long time ago but i have another question. I read on another thread that i will lose down range KE if i switch to feathers. So wouldn't this be bad since im using the rage 2 blade? And im only pulling 60lbs so that dosent help either. How much will i lose say at 30yrds? 40yrds? Or am i over thinking this too much? Thanks again, Wayne Those damn Rage's really throw me curve balls. I've had guys shoot deer at 80 yards with them at 63#'s and just eat them up.... then guys shoot them at 23 yards with 72#s and couldn't by a pass through. These are my "believeable" customers... the regulars... the hardcore's. I can put stock in their results. They are just so night and day though. The amount of energy you lose out to 40 yards with feathers vs vanes is academic really. It is beyond 40 yards that feathers and vanes start to have some pretty stark differences. Vanes will be faster out of the gate... but they have a lot more drag, which is part of the reason they stabilize so well. But more drag will mean they slow down faster. With all the issues folks have been having with Rages', I am hesititant to recommend them to anyone who isn't shooting a ridiculous amount of KE... over 75 ft/#s. |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
ORIGINAL: SwampCollie ORIGINAL: MOhunter46 I know i made this thread a long time ago but i have another question. I read on another thread that i will lose down range KE if i switch to feathers. So wouldn't this be bad since im using the rage 2 blade? And im only pulling 60lbs so that dosent help either. How much will i lose say at 30yrds? 40yrds? Or am i over thinking this too much? Thanks again, Wayne Those damn Rage's really throw me curve balls. I've had guys shoot deer at 80 yards with them at 63#'s and just eat them up.... then guys shoot them at 23 yards with 72#s and couldn't by a pass through. These are my "believeable" customers... the regulars... the hardcore's. I can put stock in their results. They are just so night and day though. The amount of energy you lose out to 40 yards with feathers vs vanes is academic really. It is beyond 40 yards that feathers and vanes start to have some pretty stark differences. Vanes will be faster out of the gate... but they have a lot more drag, which is part of the reason they stabilize so well. But more drag will mean they slow down faster. With all the issues folks have been having with Rages', I am hesititant to recommend them to anyone who isn't shooting a ridiculous amount of KE... over 75 ft/#s. Wayne |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
You'll NEVER be able to tell ANY difference in penetration on game at 30 yards between feathers and vanes. I've gotten complete pass-thrus out to 47 yards(cut on contact heads of course). I still use nothing other than feathers because I havn't found anything on the market that does as good of a job stabilizing fixed heads as feathers.
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RE: Wanting to try feathers
Feathers are lighter andcreate more drag than vanes of equal size; they also increase FOC, assuming the same tip weight is used. Feathers allow the use of lighter tips while still providing a minimum acceptable amount of FOC; for example, I can use a 75 gr. tip onsome feather fletched shafts and still have 10% FOC (that ain't gonna happen with vanes). If you have contact / clearence issues (non-drop away rest) or tuning difficulty feathers are the fletching of choice. I have some shafts that will not produce a good tear with Blazers, while producing a bullet tear with feathers (other Blazer fletched shafts work fine on the same bow).
Vanes retain downrange energy better, are quieter in flight and if you accidently touch them, and do not require additional waterproofing measures. Retention of energy / downrange energy may / or may not not be a factor in your arrow selection. I've used feather fletched shafts on several deer that were 22 yards or less; I typically had about 60 LB of KE with a momentum of .41 at arrow launch. I obtained a pass through unless I hit spine or used a 2'' cut mechanical (Marden Mini Max and Rocket Hammerhead). I failed to get a pass through both times I tried a 2'' cut mechanical.If I used a conservative mechanical like the Rocket Steelhead, Wolverine (both are 1 1/4''), or Sidewinder (1 1/2'')I would blow right through a 20 yard deer. If you want to see the downrange effect of feathers versus vanes try the calculator. http://home.att.net/~sajackson/ballistics.htm |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
Got arrows right now made up for this year with feathers and used them. Just came back from a hunt with the arrows I took, they had vanes. Glad they did.
Worked very hard to use feathers this year. All I'm saying. |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
Why didn't you like feathers? I've used feathers for years and the ONLY times I had trouble was when I was using whisker biscuit or when hunting in hard rain.
ORIGINAL: nodog Got arrows right now made up for this year with feathers and used them. Just came back from a hunt with the arrows I took, they had vanes. Glad they did. Worked very hard to use feathers this year. All I'm saying. |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
ORIGINAL: stalkingbear Why didn't you like feathers? I've used feathers for years and the ONLY times I had trouble was when I was using whisker biscuit or when hunting in hard rain. ORIGINAL: nodog Got arrows right now made up for this year with feathers and used them. Just came back from a hunt with the arrows I took, they had vanes. Glad they did. Worked very hard to use feathers this year. All I'm saying. Got Gateways 4" trebrk reds on.Which do you use? |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
ORIGINAL: MOhunter46 I know i made this thread a long time ago but i have another question. I read on another thread that i will lose down range KE if i switch to feathers. So wouldn't this be bad since im using the rage 2 blade? And im only pulling 60lbs so that dosent help either. How much will i lose say at 30yrds? 40yrds? Or am i over thinking this too much? Thanks again, Wayne The talk of durability almost always comes up. True, feathers won't take as much abuse as vanes, but the difference is that feathers can be all torn up and ratty, maybe half missing and they will still work. In fact, they're light enough that one could be completely missing and the balance of the arrow won't be upset. I've often time shot an arrow with only one feather---with target points. Water proofing? A good silicon spray will work aand so do some of the commercial products just for this purpose. Normally I figure if it's raining hard enough to flatten feathers down it's going to wipe out any blood trail so best just to quit hunting for that day. That may not be an option on some hunts. The choice would be yours. Fear not about any loss in KE. Feathers have nada to do with KE. Generally an arrow will leave the bow faster with feathers than vanes due to less weight. They do create more drag, thus faster stabilization, so do slow down faster than vanes, but the two equalize in speed around 50 yards or more and this is beyond what we normally hunt. THINK, speed is part of the equation in figuring KE. And whatever speed you get out of "only 60#' is quite enough for anything you're likely to hunt unlss you're planning something in Africa. Don't sell your equipment short. Something else is that with feathers being lighter your arrow will have a higher FOC. This can improve arrow flight and stability also. Now, this is comparing 4" feathers against standard 4" vanes. Introduce Blazers and things improves somewhat for vanes as Blazers are only about 50% heavier than 4" feathers. However, Blazers have a higher profile so can introduce clearance issues with the rest and/or the cables. This often necessitates the use of a drop away rest. Feathers don't really have this problem. They hit something they just lay down. As for fletching issues? You get right wing for your right hand clamp. I rarely have a problem getting them to stick to shafts. Prep the shafts well---squeaky clean. If the shafts are smooth use a piece of scotchbrite to rough them up a bit before cleaning. And of course, never use rubbing alcohol to clean shafts. It has oils in it. 91% works well, as does using acetone on a cloth. Don't soak shafts in acetone. Finally, I like to clean the shafts with very hot water after using the alcohol. Then I fletch with Flethtite Platinum. It's slower setting than super-glues, but I think it bonds better and doesn't get brittle. This also means easier stripping in the future. |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
Everything BGfisher says about feathers is right on the money. Except, instead of glue I use feather fletch tape. Arrow is ready to shoot as soon as you put the fletching on. The feathers stick on as well as glue with none of the glue issues. I have pulled arrows through the bagtarget andthe feathers stay on.To clean off I pull the feather off with the tape and then rub off any residual sticky with my thumb, clean the shaft with denatured alc and refletch.I cannot see myself using glue again, at least as long as I am using feathers.
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RE: Wanting to try feathers
Thanks for the input guys, i really appreciate it!
Wayne |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
ORIGINAL: BGfisher ORIGINAL: MOhunter46 I know i made this thread a long time ago but i have another question. I read on another thread that i will lose down range KE if i switch to feathers. So wouldn't this be bad since im using the rage 2 blade? And im only pulling 60lbs so that dosent help either. How much will i lose say at 30yrds? 40yrds? Or am i over thinking this too much? Thanks again, Wayne The talk of durability almost always comes up. True, feathers won't take as much abuse as vanes, but the difference is that feathers can be all torn up and ratty, maybe half missing and they will still work. In fact, they're light enough that one could be completely missing and the balance of the arrow won't be upset. I've often time shot an arrow with only one feather---with target points. Water proofing? A good silicon spray will work aand so do some of the commercial products just for this purpose. Normally I figure if it's raining hard enough to flatten feathers down it's going to wipe out any blood trail so best just to quit hunting for that day. That may not be an option on some hunts. The choice would be yours. Fear not about any loss in KE. Feathers have nada to do with KE. Generally an arrow will leave the bow faster with feathers than vanes due to less weight. They do create more drag, thus faster stabilization, so do slow down faster than vanes, but the two equalize in speed around 50 yards or more and this is beyond what we normally hunt. THINK, speed is part of the equation in figuring KE. And whatever speed you get out of "only 60#' is quite enough for anything you're likely to hunt unlss you're planning something in Africa. Don't sell your equipment short. Something else is that with feathers being lighter your arrow will have a higher FOC. This can improve arrow flight and stability also. Now, this is comparing 4" feathers against standard 4" vanes. Introduce Blazers and things improves somewhat for vanes as Blazers are only about 50% heavier than 4" feathers. However, Blazers have a higher profile so can introduce clearance issues with the rest and/or the cables. This often necessitates the use of a drop away rest. Feathers don't really have this problem. They hit something they just lay down. As for fletching issues? You get right wing for your right hand clamp. I rarely have a problem getting them to stick to shafts. Prep the shafts well---squeaky clean. If the shafts are smooth use a piece of scotchbrite to rough them up a bit before cleaning. And of course, never use rubbing alcohol to clean shafts. It has oils in it. 91% works well, as does using acetone on a cloth. Don't soak shafts in acetone. Finally, I like to clean the shafts with very hot water after using the alcohol. Then I fletch with Flethtite Platinum. It's slower setting than super-glues, but I think it bonds better and doesn't get brittle. This also means easier stripping in the future. Absolutely gospel. I might add,the weatherproofing IS NOT necessary.You can soak feathers and shoot them immediately and they still work well.I have actually taken mine and submerged them in the field to help straighten out a couple of "messed up" feathers.;) I have also found that when they start to get that worn out look.Run them under hot water out of the faucet and use your hand to run along the feathers to lay them in the same direction,then shake as dry as possible.Then prop them up and let dry overnight,they will look practically brand new overnight. |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
Another thing I almost forgot.When I did alot of my penetration test,it seemed that when I didn't get my arrow through the target medium,the arrow was hung up on the vane fletching but that wasn't an issue with feathers.
So,if you have issue with complete passthroughs,this might be something to think about.Might even save some money on arrows when the deer doesn't tear them up. |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
ORIGINAL: stalkingbear Thanks for swampcollie's reply-I had forgotten about that of the right vs left wing thing since I only use right wing for my right helical for so long,it's been AGES since I've ordered feathers. What I personally use is 5" helical and NEVER have a problem after tuning bow/arrows with flight with almost any broadhead I've ever tried. All I can say is to my way of thinking,there's no such thing as too much stability or too much accuracy. Sure,other setups or vanes will do the job,but I seriously doubt that my 5" helical feathers are slowing my arrows down much within my acceptable range. |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
The instability might show up with light arrows and at distance.
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RE: Wanting to try feathers
Thanks for clarifying. TFOX is the one that suggested that the 5" feathers could be a problem for me. Naturally I had to see it to believe it, so I took it to the field and found that there was significant instability. It wasn't as bad as when I shot that nest with flu flus, but I could see it.
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RE: Wanting to try feathers
Not something I made up,it is actually in Easton's tune guide.blackstick was wanting to a play around at extreme ranges and was wanting to try 5" feathers and I just pointed out that for him it wouldn't be a viable option.
I don't think I would use 5" feathers on sub 400 grain arrows either.Especially if I might shoot out to 50 yards with that setup. Here is what Easton says about it,of course,they are talking about extreme ranges but at what point does too much drag become an issue.It will be an individuall thing and probably won't be an issue for most at normal hunting distances.  |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
Still looking for the arrow that is going to get me out to 120 yards. I like a challenge.
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RE: Wanting to try feathers
ORIGINAL: Black Stick Still looking for the arrow that is going to get me out to 120 yards. I like a challenge. A/C/E. and spin wing vanes.;) |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
I'll do it. I'm assuming 100 grain tip. ???
I'll be shooting it through my 82nd with the stats listed in my signature. What spine should I get, and how does it look on OT2? |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
ORIGINAL: Black Stick I'll do it. I'm assuming 100 grain tip. ??? I'll be shooting it through my 82nd with the stats listed in my signature. What spine should I get, and how does it look on OT2? |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
So, if .340 is the stiffest spine for that model, it will not be stiff enough???
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RE: Wanting to try feathers
ORIGINAL: Black Stick So, if .340 is the stiffest spine for that model, it will not be stiff enough??? |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
What if I cut it to 27".
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RE: Wanting to try feathers
ORIGINAL: BGfisher ORIGINAL: Black Stick I'll do it. I'm assuming 100 grain tip. ??? I'll be shooting it through my 82nd with the stats listed in my signature. What spine should I get, and how does it look on OT2? He actually needs a .270 spine,a target arrow ain't gonna happen.Even at 27",a 300 spine is on the weak side of good. |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
I had one of you guys run my numbers in OT2 and it came back that I was on the high end of the green zone, if that makes any sense. Those arrows are a .345 spine.
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RE: Wanting to try feathers
Think about it,how many bows on the market are shooting an ibo of 350.Why would an arrow spine designed years ago be spined for it?
I think we will start seeing heavier spined arrows start hitting the market real soon to accomidate these speed demons.Right now,there are a few but they are very few.;) |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
I'll turn it down to 60# and see what happens. Thanks for the advise.
If you don't mind, I'd like to know what those heavier spined arrows are, so I can take a look at them. |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
ORIGINAL: Black Stick I'll turn it down to 60# and see what happens. Thanks for the advise. If you don't mind, I'd like to know what those heavier spined arrows are, so I can take a look at them. I am going by AA,I have not personally checked any of these arrows. Trophy Ridge 300's are listed as having a .270 spine on Archers Advantage,might check with the factory to see if that is correct. 11 gr per inch AA also list CX V MAX 2540 as having a .270 spine but I don't see them listed on their website,maybe discontinued.:eek: 11.6 grains per And Gold Tip has the big game 100+ is listed as a .280 spine. 10.6 per And,of course,there are some aluminums to consider.easton ,of course. |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
I saw them before, but I completely forgot about those Trophy Ridges. That is one heavy arrow. I actually like that. Not only are those arrows the most consistent available, but they are so heavy that I could probably get a pass through on an African elephant. That would be sweet! I'll probably go with a 125 tip, unless you guys think I should go heavier. I want to use the Grim Reaper RazorTip 1 3/4" diameter, which is available in either 100 grain or 125 grain. For this reason, if I need a heavier tip, I'd like to use a heavier insert to get my FOC up instead. By the way, what is a good FOC?
What do you think I should use for fletchings? Are my 4" shields still going to be effective on this heavier arrow? I think we are talking easily over 500 grains. Not the heavier arrow I have ever shot, but easily the heaviest my 82nd has seen. Let me know. |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
4" feathers will be perfect. 125 grain point will put your foc around 12% with 4" feathers and you will still be shooting 300 fps with a 470 grain arrow.:eek: Weights might be off on the accesories because I just used some generic numbers because I can't find actuall weights on their site.Should be real close though. |
RE: Wanting to try feathers
What weight insert should I be using to get the total weight down to 470 at 27"?
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RE: Wanting to try feathers
I was using 11 grain inserts with a 28 3/8" arrow to get 472 but I am sure that is too light of an insert.
You will need to contact the factory for specs. |
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