Wanting to try feathers
12-06-2008 | 09:14 PM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,867
Likes: 0
From: central Ky
RE: Wanting to try feathers
You'll NEVER be able to tell ANY difference in penetration on game at 30 yards between feathers and vanes. I've gotten complete pass-thrus out to 47 yards(cut on contact heads of course). I still use nothing other than feathers because I havn't found anything on the market that does as good of a job stabilizing fixed heads as feathers.
12-07-2008 | 06:36 AM
#12
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
From: USA
RE: Wanting to try feathers
Feathers are lighter andcreate more drag than vanes of equal size; they also increase FOC, assuming the same tip weight is used. Feathers allow the use of lighter tips while still providing a minimum acceptable amount of FOC; for example, I can use a 75 gr. tip onsome feather fletched shafts and still have 10% FOC (that ain't gonna happen with vanes). If you have contact / clearence issues (non-drop away rest) or tuning difficulty feathers are the fletching of choice. I have some shafts that will not produce a good tear with Blazers, while producing a bullet tear with feathers (other Blazer fletched shafts work fine on the same bow).
Vanes retain downrange energy better, are quieter in flight and if you accidently touch them, and do not require additional waterproofing measures.
Retention of energy / downrange energy may / or may not not be a factor in your arrow selection. I've used feather fletched shafts on several deer that were 22 yards or less; I typically had about 60 LB of KE with a momentum of .41 at arrow launch. I obtained a pass through unless I hit spine or used a 2'' cut mechanical (Marden Mini Max and Rocket Hammerhead). I failed to get a pass through both times I tried a 2'' cut mechanical.If I used a conservative mechanical like the Rocket Steelhead, Wolverine (both are 1 1/4''), or Sidewinder (1 1/2'')I would blow right through a 20 yard deer.
If you want to see the downrange effect of feathers versus vanes try the calculator.
http://home.att.net/~sajackson/ballistics.htm
Vanes retain downrange energy better, are quieter in flight and if you accidently touch them, and do not require additional waterproofing measures.
Retention of energy / downrange energy may / or may not not be a factor in your arrow selection. I've used feather fletched shafts on several deer that were 22 yards or less; I typically had about 60 LB of KE with a momentum of .41 at arrow launch. I obtained a pass through unless I hit spine or used a 2'' cut mechanical (Marden Mini Max and Rocket Hammerhead). I failed to get a pass through both times I tried a 2'' cut mechanical.If I used a conservative mechanical like the Rocket Steelhead, Wolverine (both are 1 1/4''), or Sidewinder (1 1/2'')I would blow right through a 20 yard deer.
If you want to see the downrange effect of feathers versus vanes try the calculator.
http://home.att.net/~sajackson/ballistics.htm
12-07-2008 | 10:40 AM
#13
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,876
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
RE: Wanting to try feathers
Got arrows right now made up for this year with feathers and used them. Just came back from a hunt with the arrows I took, they had vanes. Glad they did.
Worked very hard to use feathers this year. All I'm saying.
Worked very hard to use feathers this year. All I'm saying.
12-07-2008 | 10:50 AM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,867
Likes: 0
From: central Ky
RE: Wanting to try feathers
Why didn't you like feathers? I've used feathers for years and the ONLY times I had trouble was when I was using whisker biscuit or when hunting in hard rain.
ORIGINAL: nodog
Got arrows right now made up for this year with feathers and used them. Just came back from a hunt with the arrows I took, they had vanes. Glad they did.
Worked very hard to use feathers this year. All I'm saying.
Got arrows right now made up for this year with feathers and used them. Just came back from a hunt with the arrows I took, they had vanes. Glad they did.
Worked very hard to use feathers this year. All I'm saying.
12-07-2008 | 02:26 PM
#15
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,876
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
RE: Wanting to try feathers
ORIGINAL: stalkingbear
Why didn't you like feathers? I've used feathers for years and the ONLY times I had trouble was when I was using whisker biscuit or when hunting in hard rain.
Why didn't you like feathers? I've used feathers for years and the ONLY times I had trouble was when I was using whisker biscuit or when hunting in hard rain.
ORIGINAL: nodog
Got arrows right now made up for this year with feathers and used them. Just came back from a hunt with the arrows I took, they had vanes. Glad they did.
Worked very hard to use feathers this year. All I'm saying.
Got arrows right now made up for this year with feathers and used them. Just came back from a hunt with the arrows I took, they had vanes. Glad they did.
Worked very hard to use feathers this year. All I'm saying.
Got Gateways 4" trebrk reds on.Which do you use?
12-07-2008 | 02:46 PM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,625
Likes: 0
From: Middletown PA United States
RE: Wanting to try feathers
ORIGINAL: MOhunter46
I know i made this thread a long time ago but i have another question. I read on another thread that i will lose down range KE if i switch to feathers. So wouldn't this be bad since im using the rage 2 blade? And im only pulling 60lbs so that dosent help either. How much will i lose say at 30yrds? 40yrds? Or am i over thinking this too much?
Thanks again, Wayne
I know i made this thread a long time ago but i have another question. I read on another thread that i will lose down range KE if i switch to feathers. So wouldn't this be bad since im using the rage 2 blade? And im only pulling 60lbs so that dosent help either. How much will i lose say at 30yrds? 40yrds? Or am i over thinking this too much?
Thanks again, Wayne
The talk of durability almost always comes up. True, feathers won't take as much abuse as vanes, but the difference is that feathers can be all torn up and ratty, maybe half missing and they will still work. In fact, they're light enough that one could be completely missing and the balance of the arrow won't be upset. I've often time shot an arrow with only one feather---with target points.
Water proofing? A good silicon spray will work aand so do some of the commercial products just for this purpose. Normally I figure if it's raining hard enough to flatten feathers down it's going to wipe out any blood trail so best just to quit hunting for that day. That may not be an option on some hunts. The choice would be yours.
Fear not about any loss in KE. Feathers have nada to do with KE. Generally an arrow will leave the bow faster with feathers than vanes due to less weight. They do create more drag, thus faster stabilization, so do slow down faster than vanes, but the two equalize in speed around 50 yards or more and this is beyond what we normally hunt. THINK, speed is part of the equation in figuring KE. And whatever speed you get out of "only 60#' is quite enough for anything you're likely to hunt unlss you're planning something in Africa. Don't sell your equipment short.
Something else is that with feathers being lighter your arrow will have a higher FOC. This can improve arrow flight and stability also.
Now, this is comparing 4" feathers against standard 4" vanes. Introduce Blazers and things improves somewhat for vanes as Blazers are only about 50% heavier than 4" feathers. However, Blazers have a higher profile so can introduce clearance issues with the rest and/or the cables. This often necessitates the use of a drop away rest. Feathers don't really have this problem. They hit something they just lay down.
As for fletching issues? You get right wing for your right hand clamp. I rarely have a problem getting them to stick to shafts. Prep the shafts well---squeaky clean. If the shafts are smooth use a piece of scotchbrite to rough them up a bit before cleaning. And of course, never use rubbing alcohol to clean shafts. It has oils in it. 91% works well, as does using acetone on a cloth. Don't soak shafts in acetone. Finally, I like to clean the shafts with very hot water after using the alcohol. Then I fletch with Flethtite Platinum. It's slower setting than super-glues, but I think it bonds better and doesn't get brittle. This also means easier stripping in the future.
12-07-2008 | 03:23 PM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,520
Likes: 0
From: Southern MD
RE: Wanting to try feathers
Everything BGfisher says about feathers is right on the money. Except, instead of glue I use feather fletch tape. Arrow is ready to shoot as soon as you put the fletching on. The feathers stick on as well as glue with none of the glue issues. I have pulled arrows through the bagtarget andthe feathers stay on.To clean off I pull the feather off with the tape and then rub off any residual sticky with my thumb, clean the shaft with denatured alc and refletch.I cannot see myself using glue again, at least as long as I am using feathers.
12-07-2008 | 08:04 PM
#19
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,634
Likes: 0
From: HENDERSON KY USA
RE: Wanting to try feathers
ORIGINAL: BGfisher
I have used both vanes and feathers extensively over the years so have a fairly good idea of which I prefer---feathers. Normally 4" is best for stabilizing broadheads. 5" is better but usually not necessary if you do a decent job of tuning.
The talk of durability almost always comes up. True, feathers won't take as much abuse as vanes, but the difference is that feathers can be all torn up and ratty, maybe half missing and they will still work. In fact, they're light enough that one could be completely missing and the balance of the arrow won't be upset. I've often time shot an arrow with only one feather---with target points.
Water proofing? A good silicon spray will work aand so do some of the commercial products just for this purpose. Normally I figure if it's raining hard enough to flatten feathers down it's going to wipe out any blood trail so best just to quit hunting for that day. That may not be an option on some hunts. The choice would be yours.
Fear not about any loss in KE. Feathers have nada to do with KE. Generally an arrow will leave the bow faster with feathers than vanes due to less weight. They do create more drag, thus faster stabilization, so do slow down faster than vanes, but the two equalize in speed around 50 yards or more and this is beyond what we normally hunt. THINK, speed is part of the equation in figuring KE. And whatever speed you get out of "only 60#' is quite enough for anything you're likely to hunt unlss you're planning something in Africa. Don't sell your equipment short.
Something else is that with feathers being lighter your arrow will have a higher FOC. This can improve arrow flight and stability also.
Now, this is comparing 4" feathers against standard 4" vanes. Introduce Blazers and things improves somewhat for vanes as Blazers are only about 50% heavier than 4" feathers. However, Blazers have a higher profile so can introduce clearance issues with the rest and/or the cables. This often necessitates the use of a drop away rest. Feathers don't really have this problem. They hit something they just lay down.
As for fletching issues? You get right wing for your right hand clamp. I rarely have a problem getting them to stick to shafts. Prep the shafts well---squeaky clean. If the shafts are smooth use a piece of scotchbrite to rough them up a bit before cleaning. And of course, never use rubbing alcohol to clean shafts. It has oils in it. 91% works well, as does using acetone on a cloth. Don't soak shafts in acetone. Finally, I like to clean the shafts with very hot water after using the alcohol. Then I fletch with Flethtite Platinum. It's slower setting than super-glues, but I think it bonds better and doesn't get brittle. This also means easier stripping in the future.
ORIGINAL: MOhunter46
I know i made this thread a long time ago but i have another question. I read on another thread that i will lose down range KE if i switch to feathers. So wouldn't this be bad since im using the rage 2 blade? And im only pulling 60lbs so that dosent help either. How much will i lose say at 30yrds? 40yrds? Or am i over thinking this too much?
Thanks again, Wayne
I know i made this thread a long time ago but i have another question. I read on another thread that i will lose down range KE if i switch to feathers. So wouldn't this be bad since im using the rage 2 blade? And im only pulling 60lbs so that dosent help either. How much will i lose say at 30yrds? 40yrds? Or am i over thinking this too much?
Thanks again, Wayne
The talk of durability almost always comes up. True, feathers won't take as much abuse as vanes, but the difference is that feathers can be all torn up and ratty, maybe half missing and they will still work. In fact, they're light enough that one could be completely missing and the balance of the arrow won't be upset. I've often time shot an arrow with only one feather---with target points.
Water proofing? A good silicon spray will work aand so do some of the commercial products just for this purpose. Normally I figure if it's raining hard enough to flatten feathers down it's going to wipe out any blood trail so best just to quit hunting for that day. That may not be an option on some hunts. The choice would be yours.
Fear not about any loss in KE. Feathers have nada to do with KE. Generally an arrow will leave the bow faster with feathers than vanes due to less weight. They do create more drag, thus faster stabilization, so do slow down faster than vanes, but the two equalize in speed around 50 yards or more and this is beyond what we normally hunt. THINK, speed is part of the equation in figuring KE. And whatever speed you get out of "only 60#' is quite enough for anything you're likely to hunt unlss you're planning something in Africa. Don't sell your equipment short.
Something else is that with feathers being lighter your arrow will have a higher FOC. This can improve arrow flight and stability also.
Now, this is comparing 4" feathers against standard 4" vanes. Introduce Blazers and things improves somewhat for vanes as Blazers are only about 50% heavier than 4" feathers. However, Blazers have a higher profile so can introduce clearance issues with the rest and/or the cables. This often necessitates the use of a drop away rest. Feathers don't really have this problem. They hit something they just lay down.
As for fletching issues? You get right wing for your right hand clamp. I rarely have a problem getting them to stick to shafts. Prep the shafts well---squeaky clean. If the shafts are smooth use a piece of scotchbrite to rough them up a bit before cleaning. And of course, never use rubbing alcohol to clean shafts. It has oils in it. 91% works well, as does using acetone on a cloth. Don't soak shafts in acetone. Finally, I like to clean the shafts with very hot water after using the alcohol. Then I fletch with Flethtite Platinum. It's slower setting than super-glues, but I think it bonds better and doesn't get brittle. This also means easier stripping in the future.
Absolutely gospel.
I might add,the weatherproofing IS NOT necessary.You can soak feathers and shoot them immediately and they still work well.I have actually taken mine and submerged them in the field to help straighten out a couple of "messed up" feathers.
I have also found that when they start to get that worn out look.Run them under hot water out of the faucet and use your hand to run along the feathers to lay them in the same direction,then shake as dry as possible.Then prop them up and let dry overnight,they will look practically brand new overnight.
12-07-2008 | 08:15 PM
#20
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,634
Likes: 0
From: HENDERSON KY USA
RE: Wanting to try feathers
Another thing I almost forgot.When I did alot of my penetration test,it seemed that when I didn't get my arrow through the target medium,the arrow was hung up on the vane fletching but that wasn't an issue with feathers.
So,if you have issue with complete passthroughs,this might be something to think about.Might even save some money on arrows when the deer doesn't tear them up.
So,if you have issue with complete passthroughs,this might be something to think about.Might even save some money on arrows when the deer doesn't tear them up.