drop away timing
09-05-2008, 09:29 PM
#2
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location:
Posts: 36
RE: drop away timing
I would like to see a responce to this, but how would you know it it did ride the rest, and how far? I had to change mine because it was too slow, and was hitting the fletching, but since it is shooting good groups now, I just leave it alone.
09-05-2008, 11:12 PM
#3
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: drop away timing
It should ride on the rest as long as possibleand still let the fletching clear.That will give guidance to the arrow while giving you forgiveness.
Read this from Spot Hogg.
Arrow Flight and Forgiveness
Only those who are perfect need not be concerned about forgiveness!
There is axiom that has been used a lot in archery circles, "If you were to put your bow on a shooting machine, you would see that your bow is capable of consistent accuracy. The problem is not your equipment. You need to practice more." This really is true. We have found that a shooting machine can indeed shoot a bow incredibly accurate. Regardless of how well the bow is setup or tuned. Arrowrest location, arrow spine, cam orientation, timing, and type of bow don’t matter. The only thing that does matter is that the mechanical integrity of the bow or arrow does not change. Meaning the cables or strings do not change length, nocking point doesn't move, arrowrest doesn't change, and the arrow does not get damaged.
We know this to be true because we have checked it out for ourselves using a shooting machine. We have tried a lot of different bow setups, and seen some horrendous arrow flight come out of the machine. But, as long as nothing was damaged during the shot, the same arrow would dance in the same manner and use the same hole in the target, shot after shot.
The shooting machine has shown us that there was nothing we could do to make the bow more accurate. But, it was very critical to make sure that the bow setup did not deteriorate (cables and strings stretching, components coming loose, arrow bending, fletch tearing, etc…). We came to realize that the problem was not in the equipment (as we had hoped), but with the person using the equipment. Unless you are a human shooting machine (we are not), the bow being accurate was not enough. We needed some forgiveness for a less than perfect shot.
Even though prayers are sometimes involved in our shooting, I’m not talking about that kind of forgiveness. I am referring to having a bow setup that will hit where it is aimed even though I am unable to execute a machine like shot. That’s the forgiveness I’m talking about.
Often times, shooters think that by using the right arrows, a nifty release, or maybe a fancy arrowrest, that they are making the bow more accurate, not true. They are really making the bow more forgiving, for a less than perfect shot. The bow is inherently accurate.
There are a lot of ways to enhance forgiveness. One particular way is the use of a fall-away arrowrest. The fall-away arrow rest idea has been around for a long time. However, it didn’t seem to provide much forgiveness, until the fall-away feature was tied into the movement of the cables.
Forgiveness is difficult to separate from luck and improving shooting abilities. Most of the time it comes down to opinion. We might "think" that something is more forgiving, but not have any real indisputable proof.
We have found that if a fall-away rest is operated by the cable movement, it produces such dramatic improvement that there is no doubt about the increase in forgiveness. The increased fletch clearance with the cable operated fall-away is most dramatic when shooting fixed-blade broadheads. The fall-away arrowrest makes it possible to use bigger fletch and maximum helical on the arrow to offset the planeing abilities of fixed-blade broadheads. Resulting in noticeable better grouping. Mistakes in shot execution should still be avoided, but when they happen the result is not near as bad as with the standard type arrowrests.
When it comes to target shooting, the increase in score might seem to be enough proof. But, maybe it was just a good day, and all that practice is finally paying off. To find out the truth we set up a bow with a spring-loaded launcher, (the spring loading was easily reversible).
First, everything was set up in the normal way, (we did use a high-speed digital camera as part of our setting up.) Then we would shoot a standard target round, and keep score with the launcher in the normal spring-loaded position.
Then we changed the spring loading so that the launcher was spring-loaded in the down position. We used a piece of peep-sight rubber tubing and attached it to the launcher arm and cable. When the bow was drawn the launcher would rise to the up position about 4 to 8 inches before full draw, (8 inches worked well on solo cams and closer to 4 was what was needed for two cam bows.) We used our high-speed digital camera to set the rubber tubing length so that the arrow had support during most of the delivery. Setting the launcher to drop out of the way, so the fletch could pass without any interference. We could shoot arrows with the fletches oriented the opposite of the way they were suppose to be. It made no difference in where the arrow impacted, (we did this with the shooting machine and personally). We then shot the same target round for score.
We did this several times over a period of several days. We did it with different bows and different shooters. We alternated between launchers up and launchers down while the rubber tubing was still attached.
When the fall-away rest gave maximum guidance and got out of way just in time for the fletch to clear, the scores were better.
We found when using a string or cord in place of the rubber tubing that the forgiveness was not as good. The benefits of the rubber tubing far outweighed the need to replace the rubber tubing from time to time. In fact, the rubber tubing seems to be lasting longer than when we used it on peep sights. Just to be safe, we do replace it just before an important shoot.
Also, we don't need to use the high-speed camera to set the fall-away at optimum anymore. By trial and error, we adjust the tubing length and where it attaches to the cable until we can get as much support for the delivery of the arrow as we can. But still be able to turn the arrow over with the vanes oriented the opposite of where they are suppose to be, and make no difference down range.
We by no means have been able to test all the different configurations that might be possible, nor have we tested all the different types of fall-away rests, (to be honest we don't want to at this point). What we have going right now works awesome, and we don't want to mess with anything, (at least not right now).
PS. Spot-Hogg does not sell fall-away rests.
Good Shooting!
All Rights Reserved. Copyright 1997-2005Spot-Hogg.com. site design by buckfu.com
[/align]
Read this from Spot Hogg.
Arrow Flight and Forgiveness
Only those who are perfect need not be concerned about forgiveness!
There is axiom that has been used a lot in archery circles, "If you were to put your bow on a shooting machine, you would see that your bow is capable of consistent accuracy. The problem is not your equipment. You need to practice more." This really is true. We have found that a shooting machine can indeed shoot a bow incredibly accurate. Regardless of how well the bow is setup or tuned. Arrowrest location, arrow spine, cam orientation, timing, and type of bow don’t matter. The only thing that does matter is that the mechanical integrity of the bow or arrow does not change. Meaning the cables or strings do not change length, nocking point doesn't move, arrowrest doesn't change, and the arrow does not get damaged.
We know this to be true because we have checked it out for ourselves using a shooting machine. We have tried a lot of different bow setups, and seen some horrendous arrow flight come out of the machine. But, as long as nothing was damaged during the shot, the same arrow would dance in the same manner and use the same hole in the target, shot after shot.
The shooting machine has shown us that there was nothing we could do to make the bow more accurate. But, it was very critical to make sure that the bow setup did not deteriorate (cables and strings stretching, components coming loose, arrow bending, fletch tearing, etc…). We came to realize that the problem was not in the equipment (as we had hoped), but with the person using the equipment. Unless you are a human shooting machine (we are not), the bow being accurate was not enough. We needed some forgiveness for a less than perfect shot.
Even though prayers are sometimes involved in our shooting, I’m not talking about that kind of forgiveness. I am referring to having a bow setup that will hit where it is aimed even though I am unable to execute a machine like shot. That’s the forgiveness I’m talking about.
Often times, shooters think that by using the right arrows, a nifty release, or maybe a fancy arrowrest, that they are making the bow more accurate, not true. They are really making the bow more forgiving, for a less than perfect shot. The bow is inherently accurate.
There are a lot of ways to enhance forgiveness. One particular way is the use of a fall-away arrowrest. The fall-away arrow rest idea has been around for a long time. However, it didn’t seem to provide much forgiveness, until the fall-away feature was tied into the movement of the cables.
Forgiveness is difficult to separate from luck and improving shooting abilities. Most of the time it comes down to opinion. We might "think" that something is more forgiving, but not have any real indisputable proof.
We have found that if a fall-away rest is operated by the cable movement, it produces such dramatic improvement that there is no doubt about the increase in forgiveness. The increased fletch clearance with the cable operated fall-away is most dramatic when shooting fixed-blade broadheads. The fall-away arrowrest makes it possible to use bigger fletch and maximum helical on the arrow to offset the planeing abilities of fixed-blade broadheads. Resulting in noticeable better grouping. Mistakes in shot execution should still be avoided, but when they happen the result is not near as bad as with the standard type arrowrests.
When it comes to target shooting, the increase in score might seem to be enough proof. But, maybe it was just a good day, and all that practice is finally paying off. To find out the truth we set up a bow with a spring-loaded launcher, (the spring loading was easily reversible).
First, everything was set up in the normal way, (we did use a high-speed digital camera as part of our setting up.) Then we would shoot a standard target round, and keep score with the launcher in the normal spring-loaded position.
Then we changed the spring loading so that the launcher was spring-loaded in the down position. We used a piece of peep-sight rubber tubing and attached it to the launcher arm and cable. When the bow was drawn the launcher would rise to the up position about 4 to 8 inches before full draw, (8 inches worked well on solo cams and closer to 4 was what was needed for two cam bows.) We used our high-speed digital camera to set the rubber tubing length so that the arrow had support during most of the delivery. Setting the launcher to drop out of the way, so the fletch could pass without any interference. We could shoot arrows with the fletches oriented the opposite of the way they were suppose to be. It made no difference in where the arrow impacted, (we did this with the shooting machine and personally). We then shot the same target round for score.
We did this several times over a period of several days. We did it with different bows and different shooters. We alternated between launchers up and launchers down while the rubber tubing was still attached.
When the fall-away rest gave maximum guidance and got out of way just in time for the fletch to clear, the scores were better.
We found when using a string or cord in place of the rubber tubing that the forgiveness was not as good. The benefits of the rubber tubing far outweighed the need to replace the rubber tubing from time to time. In fact, the rubber tubing seems to be lasting longer than when we used it on peep sights. Just to be safe, we do replace it just before an important shoot.
Also, we don't need to use the high-speed camera to set the fall-away at optimum anymore. By trial and error, we adjust the tubing length and where it attaches to the cable until we can get as much support for the delivery of the arrow as we can. But still be able to turn the arrow over with the vanes oriented the opposite of where they are suppose to be, and make no difference down range.
We by no means have been able to test all the different configurations that might be possible, nor have we tested all the different types of fall-away rests, (to be honest we don't want to at this point). What we have going right now works awesome, and we don't want to mess with anything, (at least not right now).
PS. Spot-Hogg does not sell fall-away rests.
Good Shooting!
All Rights Reserved. Copyright 1997-2005Spot-Hogg.com. site design by buckfu.com
[/align]
09-08-2008, 12:13 PM
#5
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 375
RE: drop away timing
You can see where the rest is dropping by spraying foot powder spray on the back half of the arrow. See if the powder was scratched off. Of course you have to have someone spray it at full draw and you have to have a target that stops the arrow quickly so that it doesn't wipe off the powder in the target. Ideally it should be falling somewhere around the label on the arrow. Adjust itso thatit wipes a mark in the powder on the arrow until the label area and leaves it untouched past that and you should be good. You can wipe it off between shots. That spray is great to have around for arrow rest and fletch clearance testing. Just spray your arrow/fletch and it will leave the powder on whatever it touches.
09-08-2008, 12:49 PM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: WEST PALM FLORIDA
Posts: 2,890
RE: drop away timing
What TFOX said is true , spothogs newsletter accurate , only now they do sell a dropaway rest call the whammy , it is a nice rest , but my favorite is the limbdriver by vaportrail .
The perfect rest would have support until reaching the fletching then the rest should quickly fall for clearance .
The perfect rest would have support until reaching the fletching then the rest should quickly fall for clearance .
