RE: Tuning Problem
 

UncleNorby - I use the EZeye to create a known starting point

Kanga - I will try your PM'd technique. You should share the info in a post. It's a great expedient method.

All - I realize that I am pole vaulting over mouse turds. I will shoot walk back this evening and try to let it go.

RE: Tuning Problem
 

I hope you don't use to stiff of a pole and kick to the right if you try that........[8D]

hope you get it figured out!

RE: Tuning Problem
 

It has him perfect at that poundage but as I told him in a pm,the program needs to be calibrated to actuall performance,which OT2 does not allow for accurately.You have to lie about poundage to get the speed where you need it.


I have yet to have any problems with spine using AA.I had problems on my first bow using OT2.That's when I contacted them (about the same time doegirl had issues with OT2)and that's when I learned speed plays no role in spine selection,it is cam style, so if my bow with a hard 1 cam is more efficient than your hard 1 cam,spine selection will be off for one of us.Even if the IBO of the 2 bows is the same.


I suspected centershot(or cam lean)from the beginning but if the Allegiance is shooting as fast as advertised at the shorter draw lengths,I still think they are underspined but without actuall chrono numbers,can't say for sure.

I have seen certain Bowtechs on shorter draw lengthsin the past not reach the speeds that AA says they should.IMO,that is due to modules instead of individuall cams forspecific draw lengths.(less efficient)

WHY I ASKED FOR CHRONY READING in a pm and here in this post.BUT,that is irrelevant because it isn't spine issues causing the tear.



I am just sharing my experience,not arguing per say.



I asked about the rest because some have had issues with a couple you mentioned,just trying to eliminate another possibility.If spine is right now and the rest is still bad,the tear wold still be present but the Trophy Taker is a fine rest,as long as the spine is correct.So I don't think that has any relevance.


UNLESS,the rest isn't mounted square with the arrow,then that puts more pressure on one side of the arrow and will cause the tear you have.

Grasping at straws,I have seen some weird things cause a tear.

Like I said in the pm,make sure you get your centershot correct(I prefer to walkback then group but others prefer french tuning)and keep it there,regardless of what the paper is telling you.

RE: Tuning Problem
 

I will get a bow out blow the dust off and take some pics for a visual using the method I pm'd you about then post it.

Hey they might even make it a sticky:D

RE: Tuning Problem
 

I can't wait.:D

RE: Tuning Problem
 

That is not correct. You just change the default IBO speed setting (lower or higher) so that the calculated speed matches your chrono'd speed. I do the same thing in AA.

I am not saying one program is better than the other but there are idiosyncrasies to each program that you have to adjust to make either one of them as accurate as it can be.

I currently have the same bow and arrow setup in each program and OT2 shows the arrow on the weak side just out of optimum and AA shows the arrow to be just a hair to the weak side but almost in the middle of optimum. If I went by either program I could stillget my bow and arrow almost where it should be and then tuning would take care of the rest.

AA lets you print out awesome NFAA targets. Printing the targets in OT2 is a waste of time.

AA will not let you change the weight of the nock to the actual measured weight. OT2 will allow changes like that.

Both programs are good and they both have their advantages and disadvantages. You just have to know how to use them.

Sorry for the off topic post.

RE: Tuning Problem
 

Change the default and then see if the actuall spine changed.It does not.

I contacted the company and he told me personally that they DO NOT use IBO rating for spine,they use cam performance.That is why they have the different cams listed.


You can use generic weight for nocks and enter any weight you want.Atleast on the latest version of AA you can,previous version you could not.That was one complaint I had when I beta tested that version.Glad to see he made the change.

Just so I was not mistaken,I just now took an Allegiance up to 400 fps IBO in thedatabase selection formand the spine match DID NOT change from what it said it should shoot at the factory default setting.;)

RE: Tuning Problem
 

Sorry if I am sounding like a know it all but I have been round and round with the company about this.They agree that this is the way it is done.They used to use IBO rating,but hey told me that people were complaining that they didn't use the cam style so they switched.

I suggested that in the next version to have it be selectable between using IBO or cam style.I just personally feel that the ACTUALL speed plays a bigger role in what spine is need than the style of the cam.IBO is actuall performance and not based on POTENTIAL performance.


I do like some of the stuff on OT2,just think the spine form needs to be changed.


Sorry about the hijack guys.

RE: Tuning Problem
 

I see and yes, you are absolutely correct.

I agree with you here. Hopefully they will make the change you suggested, be able to select IBO or actual speed.

LOL, I guess I'll just keep using both for now :D.

Sorry for the hijack also, hopefully we are done now LOL

RE: Tuning Problem
 

At least the hijack is very interesting.

I will get the chrono reading with 5575's and 7595's on Monday.

The infamous Kanga-band center shot method and laser center shot are very, very close. After set-up (with both methods), I shot a lot walk back tonight with the 7595's. The forty yard group is roughly 2 inches to the left of centerline. I will shoot it again tomorrow and then make the very minor adjustment necessary to achieve an absolutely vertical line.

At 40 yards, the 7595's are grouping better (<3.5") than the 5575's and there is no perceptible difference in trajectory despite the heavier shaft. Here comes the next hijack: Does this mean I have gained some efficiency?

RE: Tuning Problem
 

No,those 2 arrows are probably shooting within 10 fps of each other so the difference will be very minimal.


If you can,get an exact arrow weight as well.Actually weighed on a grain scale.

There is a strong possibilty with your bow that the grip style has more to do with the tear than anything.I have a bow that does very much the same thing when I try not to torque it but when I just grab it and fling the arrow,it does good.:eek:

RE: Tuning Problem
 

I need to go back to my hijack for a second,you can calibrate your bows performane on OT2with the performance factor slide and it will change the speed and spine on the spine form.

When sliding this performance marker,OT2 says that the 5575 is too weak as well if you match speed to what AA says.So it can be calibrated,just need to know how to do it.Wonder why they couldn't tell me this when I talked to them.:eek:

RE: Tuning Problem
 

I'll have the weight and speed asap. Maybe I can find a chrono tomorrow.

RE: Tuning Problem
 

Even in the helpfile they tell you to just change the IBO speed. Perhaps that was before they changed it to cams instead of speed.

But yeah, changing the performance slide does work for adjusting for spine. Great catch!

RE: Tuning Problem
 

Probably should start a new thread but hopefully I am done with this hijack:eek:

You can slide the performance marker on the setup page and it will not change speed on the setup page untill you set it and going to the spine form page shows the changed speed,then it will also show on the set up page.:eek:

Not very user friendly imo but why in the world couldn't they have told me that when I was trying to figure out how to match the program to my bow.[:@]

RE: Tuning Problem
 

I spent several days shooting walkback and then groups. The end result was that I could acheive good walk back but my groups were spread left-right about 2.5 times as much as vertical.

On TFOX's advice, I shot through paper tonight - adjusting per the Easton Tuning Guide. I started with a slight low and 0.5" right tear (vane to right of point). The vertical tear dissappeared easily and I was able to alleviate the right tear by moving the Trophy Taker to the end of it its adjustment (away from riser). The end result is a nice bullet hole (see pic) but my rest is all the way left.

The arrow started 3/4" from the riser and I ended with the arrow 15/16" from the riser.

It sure seems odd that I have to use every bit of adjustment to achieve center shot.

I have the taken bow to a good pro shop twice. I am desperate to figure out what gives with this bow.

Does anyone have any thoughts on how I can solve this minor, but persistent issue?

RE: Tuning Problem
 

As I said in the pm,I doubt that your true center is out that far.I was just wanting you to figure out just how far it would have to go to get a bullet hole.


Like I said in the pm,move the rest back in a little (around 13/16" )and try some group tuning but I do feel there is an issue with your bow,pobably minor.If you get that tear to around a 1/4" to 3/8"(with true centershot),I would forget about it and shoot.

This is a reason I like a rest that gives guidance to an arrow,it will help get the arrow going straight longer than a fallaway that is dropping too early.


Sometimes these little things can be a pain to find.

A friend of mine was having an issue with a high tear and took him a LONG time but he figured it out it was his serving.

RE: Tuning Problem
 

I agree. In the meantime, I will take your advice.

I am on my second set of strings.
I have tried WB, QAD and Trophy Taker. I have a hostage on-hand. Should I try it?

Success = Finding this minor issue and alleviating it.

RE: Tuning Problem
 

It couldn't hurt but that isn't exactly the style rest I am talking about but it might help.