Hello Gentle Readers & Welcome to another installment of JeffB’s Long, Boring, Bow Reports

I intend to make whatever reports I do this year hopefully less boring, nor quite as long either. Work and Family time constraints prevent me from doing some of the Novellas I’ve done in the past (to which I’m sure many are breathing a sigh of relief).

So let us cut to the chase:

Some of you may have been expecting a report on the Bowtech Dual Cam Patriot. However, I’ve had this particular bow longer, and decided to write it up first as I have had much more shooting time with it. My DC Patriot review should follow in the coming weeks after I’ve had more time to put plenty of arrows through it.

<h2>2003 Hoyt CyberTec XT2000 with the Cam and a Half System</h2>

Where to start? Suffice to say, I had basically given up on Hoyt based on the 7 or 8 previous bows I’ve owned from them since the 2001 models became available. The 2001 models just never “clicked” with me, and despite some improvements for 2002 I found the cam technology & performance lackluster, and the fit, finish and string quality a letdown from previous years. So when the 2003 models rolled around, I was intrigued by the cam system, but otherwise was fairly unexcited.


<h3>SPECS & SETUP</h3>

35& 1/2” Axle to Axle length. 70 pound peak weight limbs. 6 & 5/8” measured brace height. XT2000 Laminated Split Limb system with Dual Locking Limb Pockets. The mass weight is listed as 3 Lb 15 oz.. Cam and a Half (abbr. C.5 for this report) hybrid cam system with #6 modules that will adjust from 27.5” to 30” of draw in half-inch increments. 75% letoff. Factory installed Sims LimbSavers, and 2 Sims String Leeches. Realtree High Definition Hardwoods Green camo dip finish. Stainless Steel stabilizer bushing. D-75 String and cables. Anodized “autumn brown” finish on limb pockets, and cams.

I have the bow set-up with what has become my “standard” handful of accessories: A Montana Black Gold Trapdoor fall-away rest, a Sorbotek sorbothane gel stabilizer, a Scout Mountain Onyx Millennium single vertical pin fiber optic sight, a string loop, and a Fletcher 3/16” tru-peep.

The bow is set @ 71 pounds peak weight, and in the 29” draw length position which measures exactly 29” AMO (Hooray! How often does a bow’s AMO draw length match the sticker in this day and age?)

<h3>FIT & FINISH</h3>

The Hoyt line of bows shows off a new coat of paint this year, and IMO was a much-needed facelift. The previous camo design Hoyt was using was rather cheap looking, and there were often “break lines” where the sheets of film-dip would come together. This year the New Realtree finish is 3 dimensional, and dips extremely well. Combined with the new anodized brown pockets, and cams, the new Hoyt’s are much more aesthetically pleasing to this archer, as well as just about everyone I have conversed with regarding the subject.

This is one sharp looking bow!

As per usual with Hoyt, the XT2000 limbs tracked straight, were cut and sanded well, no cam lean was present, the limbs fit as tight as it gets in the pockets, and the pockets are nice and tight to the riser. 2 locking limb bolts are provided on either side of each pocket to eliminate any limb shift or change in draw weight. One of the big improvements for 2003 is that the new bearing system in the cams (and the spacers Hoyt is using with said system) makes for a much “tighter” axle. Virtually every 2003 Hoyt I have seen does not have the annoying spaces between items on the axle. When I am paying a large sum of money for a top-end bow, little stuff like that bugs me to no end. In the case of my CyberTec, there is no “slop” whatsoever in this area.

I did notice a couple of small, rough, burrs/spots in the machining of the limb pockets, but only on the surface where they would have no adverse effect other than aesthetically. I should note that without a fairly careful examination you likely would not notice them. The cam machining is excellent, and the 75% letoff modules were flawless as far as I could tell. No burrs, sharp spots, or nicks in any of the tracks or track edges on either eccentric or the modules.

On a Scale of 1-10, my CyberTec earns a 9.5 in the fit & finish category. Were the small rough spots on the pockets not there, it would rate a 10.

<h3>THE POWER SYSTEM</h3>

Hoyt has made a very bold move in a “monkey-see, monkey-do” industry, by dropping all of it’s previous two-cam and single-cam technology in favor of the new Cam and a Half “hybrid” system.

The C.5 system purportedly combines much of the best features from the previously mentioned technology, with very little, if any of the drawbacks from either. After shooting it for two months I would have to agree.

As seen on this message board and some of the more “ rabid” ones as well, archers have noticed a definite similarity to Darton’s several year old Controlled Power System design, which I have long been a fan of. And the hardcore fans of each have been beating each other up over it and rumors of lawsuits, royalties paid or not, and shady dealings abound. I’m not going to go into any of arguments, as I find it pointless and silly for anyone other than the two companies involved. I will say my opinion is that Hoyt’s system is a different and just as valid interpretation of the same idea. The Hoyt system spreads some of the work out more over the 2 eccentrics whereas the CPS does most of the work on the bottom cam. Functionally they both provide straight and level nock travel when timed correctly, a straight string path, a “normal” length string and cables, a solid wall, a very smooth draw force curve, excellent speed and minimal maintenance characteristics.

The eccentrics on the C.5 have a somewhat familiar shape, looking similar to the old Hoyt Redline cam in profile. The 2 rotating modules are different in size with the larger of the two on the top cam, and the smaller, which incorporates a rubber damper piece to decrease noise as the cable bottoms. Similar to previous Hoyt cam technology, both modules rotate to provide draw length adjustment in ½” increments. 2 allen key screws on the top module, and only one screw on the bottom module are loosened and removed to rotate the module. On some 2003 Hoyt models I’ve noticed that a bow press might be required as the module screw is “under” the limb.

The two eccentrics do need to be timed for the best nock travel and efficiency, however they are less critical compared to a dual cam or single cam design. On both the CPS and the C.5 I have found out of time conditions to only affect where the group of arrows hit (either a bit high, or a bit low) but the accuracy level remains (arrows group tight). On a dual or single cam bow, out of synch/time conditions generally produce poorer results in accuracy level with arrows stringing out high and low on the target (or worse).

The C.5 eccentrics each have a pair of timing marks that make it easy to see if things have changed. While it is possible on the C.5 that if they went out of time significantly nock travel and accuracy could be drastically affected, modern quality string materials virtually negate that from ever happening.

The straight string path the C.5 shares with its dual cam cousin, results in a forgiving nature that the “pure” single-cam and its angled string path does not in regards to archer induced string torque. In addition this straight string path along with it’s corresponding “normal” tracking for both cables make for less wear and tear on end servings.

The C.5 system has what I would call an “optimal” force draw curve. By this I mean the force draw curve is about as good of a compromise as you can find between a hard speed cam and a smoother energy wheel type design, as well as being ergonomically comfortable for the way our muscle structure works. The cams peak fairly early and drop off fairly early in the draw cycle compared to the vast majority of single-cam designs (and some dual cam designs as well). The transitions to peak weight and into the letoff region are very smooth with none of that annoying abruptness. The valley is fairly wide, and I’ve found it very forgiving: it’s not as sensitive compared to a single-cam or some of the more radical dual cam designs. The wall at my 29” draw length is very solid.

Storing the energy is Hoyt’s premium XT2000 split limbs. These are a laminated design, which oddly enough starts out as a recurve shape when no load is applied, and then straighten out when “strung”. Personally I feel this is the best limb design on the market, with very few rivals. The only “problem” I’ve ever had with them was when the edges were not quite sanded smooth from the factory: this could lead to some uplifting of the fibers/lams if one was to hit an edge pretty hard walking through the woods, or ding it up at the range. This is not a problem specific to just Hoyt’s limbs, but to any laminated limb design. My CyberTec’s limb edges are sanded smooth, and as mentioned before track straight with no cam lean

Tying the cams & limbs together is Hoyt’s string and cables made with D-75 bowstring material from Brownell. I’ve always liked this material, and feel it as least the equal of 8125 (and offers a slightly lower pitched sound with less vibration), but it usually doesn’t get the accolades that BCY’s product does. Unfortunately for the past 2 years the Hoyt bows equipped with this string material that I have owned have had other problems: all of them displayed immediate serving wear/separation (some of it extreme in a short time). In addition all had an annoying amount of string twist which caused my peep to rotate slowly over the course of a few weeks until it settled in. My local dealer, who sells quite a few Hoyts year in and year out has complained of the same thing, even on the dual cam bows with shorter strings and cables. For 2003 Hoyt has a “new” tri-color “twist” design of the same material, that I’ve found much improved: It seems some better end serving techniques are being utilized as I’ve had no serving wear, the string settled in very quickly with regards to peep twist, and overall creep has been minimal. The new cam system undoubtedly helps, but since this problem has been occurring on the Command Cam/ CC+ bows in recent years, I think there is something more to it. These new Hoyt strings and cables still are not on the level as a Winner’s Choice or other premium string, but this as good as I’ve experienced from a “factory” string. I’ve seen no need to replace them with an after-market set and do not plan to unless some malady rears its ugly head in the near future.

Hoyt also offers a new cable slide this year after a good 7 to 8 years of using the same basic design. This particular model glides smoother, is easier on the cables, and allows one to remove the cables from it without a bow-press for waxing or slide replacement if wanted. It’s a little thing, but a nice change.

<h3>Shooting Platform</h3>

As you all probably know by now, Hoyt uses the TEC (Total Engineering Concept) riser design exclusively, which has steadily improved since its inception for the 1996 model year. Commonly called a “bridge” or “truss” riser design, in simplest terms the biggest benefit to the bow is stability with less mass. Its unique design also funnels vibration through to other areas of the riser instead of the grip for a shock-free feel at the shot. Because much of the actual mass of the TEC riser is behind the shooters hand, it has a very nice side effect: It helps eliminate torque, by quite a bit I might add. Many folks think the riser design is ugly, but personally I think it’s extremely attractive, and the level of engineering is phenomenal. As far as I’m concerned, like the XT2000 limbs discussed previously, there are few rivals to this design that I’ve experienced. It should be noted that one MUST be careful how the TEC riser is put in a bow-press because of its offset design. The instruction manual included with the bow shows the proper method.

Perhaps the biggest difference for the 2003 model year riser is the grip. Since Hoyt has been offering TEC bows, they have been making some subtle and not so subtle changes through the years to the grip. In all model years up until 2001 I thought they were making progress, but a change to a very low wrist design that year became an instant short circuit for me. The grip was also sculpted in such a way that (for me at least) made it very comfortable to hold the grip incorrectly which introduced unnecessary torque (and wayward shots). In 2002 some more subtle changes were made, but again I could not get used to it. In 2003 the changes are once again small, but it has improved significantly at least for me. The grip is not as deep this year, feels like it’s angle has been slightly altered (not quite as low), and most importantly has been sculpted to make that comfy but incorrect bow hand position much more difficult to obtain. Again this is for me personally: others might not agree with the feel, but all I can say is THANK YOU HOYT!

Another interesting note is that the 2003 model machined TEC risers no longer have the cutout for a Hoyt arrow rest adapter plate, to make it easier to use with non-Hoyt designs. Were I still using the Hoyt rests, as I did for several years, I’d likely be peeved, but since my switch to the Trapdoor last spring, it’s worked out for the best.

<h3>Performance Test</h3>

The new C.5 will likely not disappoint most folks in the arrow speed realm, especially considering it’s very nice draw force curve, and comfortable holding valley.

With the string set-up listed near the beginning of this report I was able to obtain the following speeds from the CyberTec (29” AMO draw, 71 pounds, 6 & 5/8” brace)

400 grain A/C/C 3-60: 289-290 FPS, Initial KE: 74 foot pounds

465 grain Carbon Express Terminator Select: 272-273 FPS, Initial KE: 76 foot pounds

I did not test at exactly 5 grains per LB, but would expect that speed to be in the 305-307 FPS range. IBO speed (30” draw, 70 pounds) for the bow is listed at 315 FPS.

Certainly those numbers are not as high as some of the extremely fast bows like the Bowtech designs, but considering how smooth and fairly easy the draw is, and the generous letoff/valley, I’m quite thrilled. Even more impressive is that the 2003 CyberTec is about 12-15 FPS (depending on arrow weight) faster than my #3 Versa Cam equipped 2002 CyberTec was set apples to apples. A #2 Versacam would reduce the speed difference to about 8-10 FPS in favor of the C.5 cam equipped version. I still must point out though that the C.5 version does this with a noticeably smoother draw force curve than the V-cam, and to my ears is the quieter bow.

At any rate, the CyberTec is a great performer: It’s plenty fast and hits hard enough for myself, and probably for most other Archers as well.

I should note that the C.5 will throw just about any arrow well: meaning arrow flight is good even with obviously under-spined arrows (a characteristic shared by the CPS too). However for best grouping I have found the CyberTec definitely likes a stiff arrow. I shot some brand new Carbon Express 3D Select 300’s out of it (which are OK spine-wise by the charts with my cut and point specs), and could not get them to group worth a poop! I went back to shooting the ACC 3-60’s and Terminator Select 60/75’s (stiffer shafts) and my groups shrunk instantly from about 6” (at 25 yards) to all arrows touching (of both types!) at the same distance. I’ve shot some Beman ICS Hunter 340’s through it as well with the same excellent results.


<h3>SHOOTING</h3>

When I first bought the CyberTec, I had no plans of using it for a hunting bow. A low brace height is usually just not my cup of tea for a hunting specific model. I had originally wanted the RazorTec but found the sight window too short for my tastes. In reality, I bought the CyberTec just to get a feel for the cam system, and see if some things had improved. I then figured I would just sell it, and buy an UltraTec if I indeed even wanted another Hoyt.

My first shooting sessions were very good, but nothing overly impressive or awe-inspiring. However, within a few days of purchase and many dozens of arrows run through it, I had shelved my near 8” brace hunting bow and the CyberTec was designated as its replacement without so much as batting an eyelash. The bow definitely grew on me quickly.

One trait that is impressive is the noise level of this bow, or rather I should say the lack of noise level. This is one of the quieter bows I’ve owned in recent times, and by far is the quietest sub 7” brace height bow that I have ever owned. I’ve found even shooting 5 grains per pound that only a few bows I’ve owned recently were quieter (a Pearson D-back, the Mathews Legacy and Mathews Icon). Of course the CyberTec is set-up with Limbsavers, Leeches, and my SorboTek stabilizer, however I use those items on every bow I purchase, so the comparison is fair. On a scale of 1-10 I would rate the CyberTec a 8.5, possibly even a 9 considering how fast it is (For comparisons sake I would rate the Patriot Single cam as a 7.5, the Mathews Legacy a 9 to 9.5, and the Mathews Icon & Pearson D-back a 10)

Recoil is present with very light arrows, but minimal. With the limb angle that Hoyt continues to use (compared to the ever growing popularity of parallel limb designs), this is inevitable. It’s certainly not objectionable, and with arrows 6 grains per pound and over, I don’t notice anything. One of the improvements for this year with the incorporation of the C.5 is a more balanced feel similar to a dual cam bow as the limbs come back to brace. Even with the better parallel limb single-cam designs that drastically reduce recoil, I still can feel the odd one cam firing recoil, which is something that I have never been able to get used to. With the C.5 this “floppy” feel is eliminated.

So how does it shoot? Put simply, the 2003 CyberTec is one of the most forgiving, and purely accurate bows I’ve owned, regardless of brace height. I had a period of 2 months where I had no other bows in my collection that were in shootable condition (which in recent years is unusual), I’ve shot it almost daily since I’ve bought it, and I’ve really become “in tune” with the CyberTec. I’ve shot it at close ranges and longer ranges. I’ve shot indoors at 5 spot targets, and outdoors at a bag with a deer silhouette, and I’ve found it thoroughly accurate, and fun to shoot no matter where I shoot it, or what I shoot at. When I’m on, it’s scary, and when I’m off, the results on the target are much better than some other bows I’ve had whose specs would be considered much more forgiving comparatively.

The CyberTec holds steadier, balances better, is less resistant to torque, less critical of out of time conditions, and more forgiving of my form than anything I’ve owned in the past 3 years. Yes, I find it a better overall shooting machine than even the BKII op2 that I owned last year that had been such an eye opener for me. While the BKII shoots with extreme accuracy, is forgiving and is super fast, it does not have the level of forgiveness and total package that the CyberTec does in my grubby little mits.


<h3>Nitpicks</h3>

I tried for two days to really come up with something that bugged me about the 2003 CyberTec. In the past 2 years I could have come up with a few pages of nitpicks with Hoyt designs. And I’ve had a few nitpicks with EVERY bow I’ve owned, even the BKII, Rage, Patriot, and Defiant. I spent an hour last night just going over the bow, and trying to think of something, anything! And then I remembered something…

The day I bought the bow I was setting the poundage at the shop I frequent and help out at and then proceeded to tighten down both of the locking bolts. On one of bolts as soon as I applied a small amount of pressure to make it snug, the plastic washer under the locking bolt squished like a bug. It surprised me how easily it squished; it was like jelly. I replaced it immediately, and forgot about it. So be careful, you might get a squishy plastic washer.

The small machining marks on the one limb pocket don’t really bother me, but I suppose I should add that to my very short list of nitpicks as well.

Certainly I could say something like: I’d like to see another 20 FPS tacked on, or hoped it would of had an inch higher brace height and kept the same speed, or even that it was offered with the new Spiral Cam, but those aren’t nitpicks, those are just “wishes”.

<h3>Conclusion</h3>

So did Hoyt live up to their advertising claims?

As far as I’m concerned, they certainly have.

The CyberTec has exceeded my expectations on every level. I’ve found the 2003 CyberTec nearly maintenance free. Even with the cams out of time (slightly outside the timing marks and even, or just uneven) and its fairly low brace height, it is extremely accurate and forgiving. The draw force curve is very smooth; smooth enough in fact that I’m ordering some 80-pound limbs to play with. It possesses a solid wall, a comfortable valley and aims/holds particularly well considering its mid-length stature. Performance is excellent, and should match with the catalog rating @ 30” AMO draw. My particular CyberTec is damn near flawless in how it’s put together. The AMO draw length is dead on, as is the advertised brace height. Recoil is very low, vibration is nil, it has some serious speed for the amount of effort you put into it, and the bow is extremely quiet even when shooting 5 grains per pound.

Hoyt has addressed basically every problem I’ve personally had in the past 2 years with their designs, and corrected them. I don’t know what more I could ask for. With the amount of praise these Cam and a half bows garner both locally and Online, it seems Hoyt has stepped up to the plate and sailed one out of the ballpark for 2003.

Any other bow I may acquire (or already have) this year is going to have a very tough row to hoe to knock the 2003 CyberTec out of my #1 bow slot.









Edited by - JeffB on 01/31/2003 08:03:56

OK. Now I have to go shoot one! If I go shoot one and just have to have it, you may be getting a call from my wife<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> That was a really good report. Maybe your best yet. I really want to go shoot a cybertec now. Thank You

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;

JeffB,

I'm going to have to start calling you the MAIL-Man....You deliver! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Very good report. I just don't know how much my budget can stretch with all of the bows I would like to try out this year.

Could you elaborate a little more on your thoughts concerning the sight window of the Cybertec vs the Razortec.

Thanks again...Good job, keep it up.

JeffB,

great report!!!!

I looked hard at the hoyt line ,and am still looking at the razor.
If Bowtech doesn't do right by me, I may just become a techie

When's hoyt going to go back to the Havoc and Enticer style risers? I loved Hoyts, never owned one but the ones I shot I fell in love with and couldn't afford at the time. Now that I can afford them they are all on the Tec riser and I will be the first that admits that they are sweet to shoot, I just can't get over their looks. I know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I think tec riser is too........something.....futuristic??? Just don't find them visually appealing. But they definately shoot sweet. Obviously this just IMHO!!!!!

&quot;What we do in this life echos an eternity&quot;

Long - maybe. Boring - NO WAY!! What a review. Here I had convinced myself to trade my 2k2 Cybertec for a 2k3 Ultratec c.5.
But if the short brace height does not make it that unforgiving, well???

Durn, I'm never going to know what to get at this rate. Cyber, Ultra, Patriot, Reflex Buckskin, matttttt (can't even spell it) the list goes on.

Thanks for such an awesome reveiw and complicating my decision further.

Jeff, as I have said before, you da man! <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>It was ironic as I read your report, all I kept thinking was this sounds exactly like my Razortec except different numbers,etc. I would like to enjoy the luxury of shooting all the TEC bows side by side and see how they compare to each other. I am amazed that a bow with a somewhat short brace height as the Cyber has, you found it so shootable. I know you are fussy.<img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>I am enoying the 7 3/8&quot; brace on my RT. I shot some chrony today and with a 28.5&quot; AMO draw, 64#, and a 385 grain arrow, I was able to shoot 275 fps on the button (string loop and kisser and standard issue equip). I also grabbed a 318 grain arrow (yes I know it is light,lol) and was interested to see how the bow would sound and feel ( I had a chance to read your report before you posted it,lol, so you got me thinking). Anyhow, the 318 grain arrow was shot at 296 fps and the bow was still amazingly quiet, shock free and accurate. I was honestly amazed with such a light arrow! After I get some wear on my string/cables, I will put the Bowman string/cables on it and see how she shoots. I read on of the boards someone picked up 8 fps I believe it was with Geroge's strings. Hoyt has really done a great job on these bows this year. Enjoy your &quot;Cybering&quot; Jeff <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

*Become a better shot —> practice, don't just shoot*

SA,

Thanks for the compliments, but I have a hard enough time keeping out of trouble with my own wife <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Perhaps I should put in a disclaimer at the end of my reports? <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>


AE,
Thank you for the kind words. As regards to the R-Tec: It simply has a fairly short sight window. Due to the way I am built I use a fairly low anchor point which tends to put pins higher up in the sight window. While I think I could get away with the R-tec, there was a good chance my pin would be way up at the top and my sight picture could be obscured. I had a real problem with the window on the HavocTec last year, and the Razor's is not much longer.

RA,

Thank you. And I am sure Bowtech will take care of you. They have great folks running the shop, and great service. But that doesn't mean you cannot buy a RazorTec too! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

CG,

An acquired taste perhaps? <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> I've always loved the look, but I know some folks just cannot get used to them.

CPA,

Thank you for compliment. I should note I have also spent a bit of time messing around with a new Ultra with the Spiral cam, and if the money situation works out, I'll be grabbing one of those too. You should shoot them both and see what works best for you! In either case you are getting a very nice bow.

Jerry,

NO, YOU DA MAN!!!. Thanx pal. You and I go back a ways online, and we always end up owning something similar or the same...Martin Z-cams..Darton Mav's...Hoyt C.5's...and a DC PAT I hear now..Congrats! I was a bit surprised at your numbers. I would figure the RazorTec to be a bit slower than that. I'm curious about those strings too, but I wonder how it will effect the noise level? I know that while I love them dearly, Winners Choice strings do create some extra noise. So far I've had little trouble with the Hoyt string & harness, so I'll keep em on for now.

<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Jeff,
Yeah we do go back aways but I wouldn't trade it for anything! I just came back from shooting the RT and waxing the strings. I agree with you about seeing how the factory strings go, I will also. I think the WC or Bowman Strings would be a little louder but I am not so sure cuz these bows are so danged quiet. This is THE quietest bow I ever owned. Way better than my MQ-1 and that was the best as far as quiet with all the bows I have owned.

Once I get the draw weight set to were I am very comfortable, I will run some numbers on the chrony and post what I get. I'll be hoenst Jeff, when I saw 296's keep coming up, I was very surprised as well. The &quot;other&quot; RT was not that fast but shhhhhhh don't tell Frank, LOL. I was up to see him today, he is a class guy!

I believe, at this time, come hunting season I will be in the 275 - 280 range which should yield 65 - 67 ft. lbs. intial KE and quiet as a church mouse!

How did ya hear about the PAT DC?

*Become a better shot —> practice, don't just shoot*

Jerry,

The crow flies at midnight! (i.e., got it today, and out it goes Monday.)

Rod