I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

I went to sportmens warehouse yesterday to shoot some of the new bow's and was shocked at how much difference in fps there was between an IBO arrow and my hunting arrows.

I currently am shooting a martin firecat (that is old enough to vote and buy snuff) with 60 lb limbs at 29 in. With my goldtip 5575's w/ feathers, it will shoot 262 fps. My chrono outside and indoor at archery range. With my 430 gr carbon express term lite w/ vanes, it will shoot 254 fps. Not good, not bad, just OK. Works fine for deer hunting. I have to use 1st pin for 0-20, 3rd pin for 30 and usually split the diff when hunting and use my 2nd. It's a little high at 20 and low at 30, but works out ok on deer.

I have been wanting a new bow for a year or two, decided to go shoot yesterday. Not sure on all of the draw lengths and I know they can be tuned, but here are initial results from indoor chrono.

Bow My 430 gr cx stores IBO arrow
Alligence 60lb 258 fps 272
Guardian 70lb 276 311
Vital Impact 70 lb 257
Commander 70 lb 258
General 70 lb250
Ross 337 70 lb 248
Marquis 70 lb 278 302



The General was the smoothest bow I have ever shot. The Commander was the most comfortable to me (I am use to that 42 in martin). I like the valley at the back of the draw in the ross 337 ( again what I am use to).

I know my arrows are on the heavy side of average, but a lighter arrow would also make my bow shoot faster. As of right now, I am sticking with my martin. I can't justify spending $700 to gain 5-15 fps.

Anybody have any comments or similar experience.

I think martin must of been on the right track in the late 80's and early 90's.

RE: I am shocked!
 

Getting the speeds you are at the draw weight and draw length you're using, you're getting phenomenal performance from that Firecat. If you want more arrow speed, spend the $700. I don't think the Firecat can take a steady diet of arrows that are much lighter than what you're using now, so you'd be spending the money eventually, anyway.

RE: I am shocked!
 

Jump in here Bowtech staff. What weight arrows are you hunting with? How fast are your hunting rigs shooting? I'd like to buy a bowtech, but I need some convincing.

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

To Bowtech staff,
If this is the case why when you go get a new bowtech are they not tuned to shoot faster. All dealers say they can tweek them into shooting faster. That makes no sense. What are they tweeking?

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

You can tweak all bows to shoot faster. That doesn't mean that you should.

My guardian at 30 inches and 71 pounds will shoot a 490 grain axis at 270 fps.

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

One of my buddies has an old Hoyt from about that same era and it is just about as fast as my new Hoyts - using the same arrow at the same draw weight/length. Not quite a smooth and refined - louder, but just as fast and it seems very accurate as well.

These speed you are getting are pretty comparable with what I'm getting with 61 lbs. of draw weight and 29".

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

I went from a 99PSE Mohave to a 04 bowtech liberty. I actually lost speed. But I didn't buy teh liberty for increase in speed. I bought it for 80% letoff, and lack of shock due to parrellel limbs. I now have went to a bowtech liberty, and shoot 275fps with a 440gr arrow. My PSE shoots it 268, and my liberty shoots it 256fps. All set to 70fps. If you think you are gaining something, by getting a new bow, think again.

Only reason I got the commander is after I shot it, all I could say is "WOW". no shock, no noise.

My hunting buddy Joe, is right now aggonizing over buying a new bow. I keep warning him, don't expect miriacles with speed out of a new bow. But he keeps reading IBO numbers, and obsessing over it.

Martin wasn't doing anything more right or wrong with thier bows, but thier design can create alot of speed with limbs producing some of teh speed, where the parrellel bows, the cams are doing most of the work. there is no free lunch. You have to give up somethign to get something.

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

I am currently hunting with arrows that weigh about the same as what you are shooting...430-440 grains including point.

Two, I do not know in truth. I never chronoed any of last year's bows nor have I yet tried with any of the new models I have just received. However, that situation is about to be remedied. I am in the process of putting a little piece together on a few models. It is going to be comparative in nature and part of that comparison is going to be their actual speeds with my typical hunting setup.

I cannot make any promises but I hope to have it finished some time in the next week....as time, the wife..and the kids allow.

;)

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

I think it all goes back to a few simple rules of bows:

1) shoot what you like and are comfortable with fast is fine accuracy is final (Wyatt Earp)

2) Buy what you can comfortably afford. nothing is fun if it breaks the bank for you.

3) the $299.00 dollar bow package at the low end of the sales rack will kill the same deer with a well placed arrow as the all new decked our top of the line latest greates auto cam, no shock, no sound, you must buy or you will never kill another deer in your life bow.

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

My hunting arrows are 440grs right on the nose andwith 29.5" draw modules installed my General was shooting 269fps with every shot.

That General number looks low but it does depend on what is on the string and I'm sure they were 29" mods so knock 5fps off there.It's also not a "Speed" bow with an 8+" brace height .
Guardian looks good......that's at 29" too so a 30" mod will get you around 322fps. (nothing to sneeze at)
The General number looks a bit low to me based upon my personal bow.

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

I can tell you that my single cam Patriot will shoot a 400 grain arrow at 304 fps 71#, 30" draw.

My Dually Patriot will shoot the same arrow at 315 fps and will shoot a 490 grain Axis FMJ at 289fps.

My 1993 High Country dual cam bow will shoot a 420ish grain arrow at about 275. But, there is no comparison in the bows and the way they shoot. The wall is spongy in the HC and rock solid on both on the Bowtechs. And the jump, noise and vibration is not even comparable either. Speed wise there may not be a huge difference but the overall shooting is much better with the new bows.

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

I just don't get it. I mean why would anyone want to loose speed. If you have an older bow that you are comfortable with and used to would you spend 700 on a bow that shoots slower. I mean there ways to quiet a bow. Much more affordable ways to quiet a bow than go buy a new one. I am a huge bowtech fan. I mean I have wanted a new guardian since I first saw them come out. I will never buy one just for the simple fact that what I have shoots faster and I am comfortable with. I am just dissappointed that is it. There is all this hype about speed, and when it comes down to it, a new bow is not any faster. By they way I have never had a deer jump my string or even know that I have shot until the arrow has already hit them.

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

If I'm reading your initial post correctly the Allegiance beat your bow by 4 fps? there's you new bow if faster, smoother, quieter is your criteria.

And when you list "stores IBO arrow" I assume you are referring to a 350 grain arrow which would be heavy IBO for a 60# bow in the Allegiances case. (60x5=300)

Good luck in your decision. Sounds like you've got a fast bow to start with.

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

okgobbler. My first ? is why are you shooting such a heavy arrow out of that bow. For every 3grains over you are losing 1 fps so for you. you are losing 26 fps out of your bow. so your bow with a 300 grain arrow should shoot in the neighborhood of 288fps not bad.These calculations areassuming your 5575 goldtiparrows are around 28in. The allegiance will shoot around a 291 with a 300 grain arrow. if you bought a allegiance in 70 lbs it will shoot a whole lot faster. Guardian 302 thats alot faster and a smooth bow. Granted these are all only a little faster than the bow you have. I own a guardian 70lbs in a 26 inch draw length it shoots 272 with a 355grained arrow goldtip 3555 quickspines which slows it down and I have 60 foot pounds of ke so the same bow in a 29 inch draw at 70lbs will launch an arrow around 40 fps faster thats around 70 foot pouns of ke. So has to What I am really rambling on about is that even though it is not that much faster the KE of say the guardian is around 40 fps faster than what you are shooting know with a 350 grain arrow and 10 foot pounds of Ke. your Ke of your current set is 70 foot pounds of KE at only 262.

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

I don't get what YOU don't get. You ask why anyone would want to lose speed, but then you admit that the speed talk is hype and that you've never lost a deer due to a slow arrow anyway.

The thing is: speed is nice, for sure, but it's not everything. Personally, I couldn't care less if a bow shoots 350 fps if it has a ridiculously short brace height, the draw cycle is nasty and it sounds like a car door slamming when you shoot it.

Yes, there are ways that will *help* quiet a bow, but you can only do so much. I have an old Oneida bow that will never -EVER- be as quiet as my stripped-down 04 BowTech, no matter what you do to it.

So would I trade off some speed for an overall better bow?Absolutely.If it draws back so smooth that it feels like you're pulling 10lbs less than what you actually are and shoots really tight groups and you can'teven hear it shoot, why wouldn't you buy it? Who cares if it happens to shoot 5-10 fps slower???

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

Would of been nice to see the draw lengths of the bows shot. My Guardian at 29" 60 lbs shoots a 463 gr arrow at 256 fps and my 60 lb Allyshoots IBO in the 320s. The only reason I bring this up is the Ally should be above the Guardian in both hunting and IBO speeds so it appears to me that the Ally could of been short draw

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

Mike,

I just figured out why you had to register as "crackers1" after finally noticing the filter messing with your sig line... :)

Welcome aboard, by the way!

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

See? it even edited that out. [8D]

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

The only one I have chrono'd so far is my Allegiance,

381 grain arrow, 28.5" draw at 70lbs my arrows speed is 305fps.

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

Bowtech Tribute set at 65lbs with a 28.5 in drawlaunching a510 grain arrow gets me255 FPS
same set up with a 400 grain arrow gets me 290 FPS

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

For my own edification, I went fast and light this year. Bought an Elite Synergy 70#, which I dropped down to 65# for hunting. It's set at 29" and I'm using a 27" Maxima Hunter with 2" Blazers and Muzzy 75 gr BH's. Weighs 354 gr and goes through my ProChrono at 310 fps. I took two deer in Illinois this year, an 11 pt buck (141 gross) and a doe. Both were shot angled away. The buck was shot over the right rear hip taking the right lung and centering the heart. Did not go through the chest. The doe was similar but from the other side. Neither went over 60 yards and the sound of their fall was obvious. I like the results. Don't have to worry about range 'till it gets beyond 40 yards then I switch pins. Oh, the fixed blades hit with my field points and fly like very fast darts contrary to what I've heard about fixed blades not shooting well at speeds over 300 fps.

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

My Bowtech is set at 58 pounds. I total arrow weight is 543 grains. 21 % FOC shooting 250 FPS... Now that works!!!

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

I don't believe it has been mentioned but keep in mind that all the models that have optional speed/smooth modules are shipped with smooth mods.

With thespeed mods installed each bow wouldgain approx. 8 fps. over the smooth mods.

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

My Allegiance 60#,28" draw, Speed Mods, shooting a 343 grain Slick Trick tipped Maxima at 301 fps. An IBO legal weight arrow would be faster. By the way that's the fastest hunting bow I have owned, but I don't have my Airborne yet;)

Dan

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

Thanks for the responses. I am staying with the firecat for now. When I do upgrade, it will probably be with a new commander.

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

I bought a commander this year and shoot a 29" arrow total weight of 490 grns set on 64 lbs 29" draw lenght at 260fps.I gained some speed from my old bow,but that is not why I chose the commander as my hunting bow.I chose it because I love the long ata and it is so smooth and quiet,plus the long ata sure is solid when aiming.That is why you should spend the bucks for the commander not because of speed that is a bonus.

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

First and for most what are your jobs? How are you able to spend 700 on a new bow every year or every other year on a bow that may or may not be any smoother and only shoot a few feet per second faster? The last is are there any openings at those jobs for my wife so that I can hunt more with new bows?

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

The commander is the first bow that I have bought in ten years and will most likely be my last.

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

Dan,
That's smokin' for 28' draw @ 60. WOW.

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

Just wondering what does it mean to be a bowtech corporate staff? How do you get that position? What do you do?

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

Ok, first off, don't have children. This is the key to lots of time in the woods, and new bows every year. Second, go enroll in a college and then go thru medical school. Anything medical and lots of money, but maybe no time to shoot your bow. Don't be a lawyer, no guarantees on making big money there.

Engineering is always good. Been good to me. I get 5-6weeks vacation a year.But takes 5-7 years of college. And about 10 years of expereince.

I am in accumilation mode right now. Because my wife is in this thing called nesting mode, we are expecting a new baby in April. So I figure after that, no new bows, no new guns, hunting time cut in half, maybe more. Life as I know itis over:(. Just joking.

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

1. Full time employee of a local school district, part-time archery pro shop worker, part-time representative for a popular bow company

2. Prior to being a representative for said company I was single with a decent paying job, alot of time on my hands and a passion for bowhunting and bowhunting equipment.

3. I honestly don't know. Pat might be able to help you there. ;)

Corporate staff members serve a variety of purposes. One, we are here to offer assistance on the forums if folks have questions on our products. Two, we work with many of the local dealers of our products. Three, we also work many of the outdoor shows helping to educate and promote our product line.

...at least that is what I have been doin'. I hear you can get away with just lookin' pretty. Ask Pat.:)

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

I just wanted to mention resale value for top brand bows aint bad, or so it seems. Seems like they spend $700 a year but after selling the old one it's prolly like $150...well spent $150 I'd imagine.
Not sure if you considered this or not.=)

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

Carckers has got two that are shooting over 300 with that brace height. JUst a little bit of tweaking had to be done.;)

RE: I am shocked! Bowtech staff
 

Well and then theres the others of us who can buy new bows every year or evey other year. Military 5 yearsmarriedwife has a good job and no kids, and the big one go over to the middle east for 6-7 months every so often and not see your family for that long so you kind of can save up alot of money when your not spending it for 6-7 months.

P.S I love the military and would not trade it for the world
Proud to be in the U.S. NAVY
protecting our freedomand bowhunting