Tuning process
12-28-2002, 11:32 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Havertown PA USA
Posts: 232
Tuning process
Now that hunting season is just about over for me.(one more week of winter bow in Pa.) I'll be shooting indoor and 3-D. I didn't have the luxery of having two bows this year(for various COLLAGE&KIDS reasons)so I'll be changing over to my target set-up. I've had the same tuning process for the last 5-6 years now with good results. I think. Do any of you Teckie see a falt or a better way to tune my bows.
Here's my process
1) After setting my rest,site and nocking point I eye balling everything and set my timing (Duel cam)
2)I shoot in a 20 yd. pin. and do a powder check for clearence.
3) I start bare shaft tuning for spine and nocking point and make necessary adjustments. I don't put much wt. in paper tuning so that's not part of my process any longer.
4) I then shoot in a 40 yd. pin and adjust my site for windage.
5) At this point I start vertical and horizonal line shooting at 40 yds. and make micro adjustments to my center shot and nocking point.
6) This is when I shoot in my other pins. A 30 and 50 yd. Most 3-D cources I shoot don't have a 60 or longer target.
6) My final step will be to check my bare shaft out to 30 yds and if I'm shooting the same groups with fletched and b/s at that distance I'm good to go. I use 40 yds as my farthest distance in my tuning process becaues I can shoot my tightest groups with more consistancy then 50-60.
This process has been working for me but I'm always looking for improvement. The only other tuning I think I could do (and sometimes I do)would be long distance group tuning. Any suggestion are welcome. JERRY
Here's my process
1) After setting my rest,site and nocking point I eye balling everything and set my timing (Duel cam)
2)I shoot in a 20 yd. pin. and do a powder check for clearence.
3) I start bare shaft tuning for spine and nocking point and make necessary adjustments. I don't put much wt. in paper tuning so that's not part of my process any longer.
4) I then shoot in a 40 yd. pin and adjust my site for windage.
5) At this point I start vertical and horizonal line shooting at 40 yds. and make micro adjustments to my center shot and nocking point.
6) This is when I shoot in my other pins. A 30 and 50 yd. Most 3-D cources I shoot don't have a 60 or longer target.
6) My final step will be to check my bare shaft out to 30 yds and if I'm shooting the same groups with fletched and b/s at that distance I'm good to go. I use 40 yds as my farthest distance in my tuning process becaues I can shoot my tightest groups with more consistancy then 50-60.
This process has been working for me but I'm always looking for improvement. The only other tuning I think I could do (and sometimes I do)would be long distance group tuning. Any suggestion are welcome. JERRY
12-30-2002, 12:53 PM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Havertown PA USA
Posts: 232
RE: Tuning process
Thanks J. I'm so compulsive and tinker almost to a fault. A friend of mine gave me a pocket rachet set for Christmas as a joke. I laughed cause I got him doing the same thing. JERRY
12-30-2002, 02:17 PM
#4
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: Tuning process
Jerry-
I can see you are meticulous, and that is good!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> However, you are getting incorrect info from somewhere IMHO.
If a bare shaft flies the same as a fletched shaft and impacts the same point at a given distance, it is not tuned correctly.
Why?
Because a bare shaft is not spined the same as a shaft that has the additional weight and drag of vanes or feather fletching of varying degrees of offset and helical, and thus should NOT fly exactly the same. If they do, then they are incorrectly tuned to get that result. Simple as that. If you throw both arrows out of a Hooter Shooter, they will impact differently if you tune to bare shafts impacting the same hole.(and then throw a fletched arrow out of the same setup) The fletched arrow will not shoot into the same hole like the bare shaft did unless re-tuned. If you try to get a "happy medium" with both, then that is what you get, not a "pure tune" for the fletched shafts, which is what you are striving for. You want that fletched puppy to go into the same hole as the last one every shot, and it won't if you are trying to get both fletched and bare shafts tuned at once because they have different flight characteristics due to spine, weight, and drag.
So, the best thing in this scenario is to do exactly what you have done for the most part, but eliminate the bare shaft tuning unless you plan to shoot them from your completed setup afterwards! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
I can see you are meticulous, and that is good!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> However, you are getting incorrect info from somewhere IMHO.
If a bare shaft flies the same as a fletched shaft and impacts the same point at a given distance, it is not tuned correctly.
Why?
Because a bare shaft is not spined the same as a shaft that has the additional weight and drag of vanes or feather fletching of varying degrees of offset and helical, and thus should NOT fly exactly the same. If they do, then they are incorrectly tuned to get that result. Simple as that. If you throw both arrows out of a Hooter Shooter, they will impact differently if you tune to bare shafts impacting the same hole.(and then throw a fletched arrow out of the same setup) The fletched arrow will not shoot into the same hole like the bare shaft did unless re-tuned. If you try to get a "happy medium" with both, then that is what you get, not a "pure tune" for the fletched shafts, which is what you are striving for. You want that fletched puppy to go into the same hole as the last one every shot, and it won't if you are trying to get both fletched and bare shafts tuned at once because they have different flight characteristics due to spine, weight, and drag.
So, the best thing in this scenario is to do exactly what you have done for the most part, but eliminate the bare shaft tuning unless you plan to shoot them from your completed setup afterwards! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
12-30-2002, 07:13 PM
#5
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Havertown PA USA
Posts: 232
RE: Tuning process
MAN! Pinwheel, I've been hitting fast balls out of the park and now you throw me a curve? I've had such good luck with B/S tuning now to find out it's flawed, will bring on distructive behavor for me. We've had this discusion in an indirect way before. So don't leave me now brother.
I'm not going to disagree with you yet because I really respect your knowledge and experience on this subject. This process has worked for me almost flawlessly. So it's going to be hard for me to change because of that. If you can get me there or better I'm all ears. This is why I posted this question. You know I got the B/S tuning from Easton's tuning guide. Am I interpreting it wrong? I mainly use B/S for nocking point and spine. Which I think is the most important part of arrow flight. So if I disreguard the B/S how do I tune for these now? Since I've adapted to B/S tuning I have disregarded Paper tuning altogether. I rely on long distance vertical & horizonal tuning for fine tuning nocking point and center shot. I still won't have a spine technique. See what you've done? LOL JERRY
I'm not going to disagree with you yet because I really respect your knowledge and experience on this subject. This process has worked for me almost flawlessly. So it's going to be hard for me to change because of that. If you can get me there or better I'm all ears. This is why I posted this question. You know I got the B/S tuning from Easton's tuning guide. Am I interpreting it wrong? I mainly use B/S for nocking point and spine. Which I think is the most important part of arrow flight. So if I disreguard the B/S how do I tune for these now? Since I've adapted to B/S tuning I have disregarded Paper tuning altogether. I rely on long distance vertical & horizonal tuning for fine tuning nocking point and center shot. I still won't have a spine technique. See what you've done? LOL JERRY
12-30-2002, 07:19 PM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vermilion Ohio
Posts: 183
RE: Tuning process
pinwheel is absolutely correct. anything added to your arrow will and should make it fly differently than a bare shaft, and if it doesn't then something isn't right. ive seen guys that took this to such an extreme that they weighed the amount of glue they use to fletch their arrows. which falls back to my previous statement, that anything added to an arrow will and should make it fly differently than a bare shaft. i was wondering why you don't paper tune anymore? i see you powder test for clearance but how do you set your centershot and knocking point w/o shooting through paper? shooting 40 yds to set centershot and knocking point seems to me to be kind of a prolonged and ultimately inaccurate way to do this. you can set a c/s and k/p shooting through paper from about 10 ft in about 10 to 15 mins...then move back to 20 yds and 40 yds shoot through paper again and see what you have. using the human eye at 40 yds to check arrow flight seems pretty flawed. although you'll probably have no problem seeing that your arrows aren't flying correctly, do you then have to guess at what to adjust and what direction...etc..etc? just my opinion, but ive never had a problem obtaining perfect arrow flight by shooting through paper. it is also my opinion that checking arrow spline is overkill....there are so many charts out there that are very reliable for matching draw weight, draw length, arrow wieght, and arrow length that you're wasting your time unless you just like wasting your time...LOL <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Edited by - nodose on 12/30/2002 20:45:00
Edited by - nodose on 12/30/2002 20:45:00
12-30-2002, 08:01 PM
#7
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: In a Tarpon Boat
Posts: 846
RE: Tuning process
I agree with Pinwheel 100%
Life is too short to waste your time bare shaft tuning.
You're not going to hunt or shoot targets with bare shafts!
Big waste of time that could be better spent tuning the correct way with a fully fletched arrow. JMO.
Sag.
Life is too short to waste your time bare shaft tuning.
You're not going to hunt or shoot targets with bare shafts!
Big waste of time that could be better spent tuning the correct way with a fully fletched arrow. JMO.
Sag.
12-30-2002, 08:22 PM
#8
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blissfield MI USA
Posts: 5,293
RE: Tuning process
I agree with pinwheel, and am glad to hear him say it. I have mentioned it a few times, and people don't seem to believe me. Maybe him they will. I have played with bare shaft tuning, and it was really just a night mare, only to have my arrows group worse any way.
Actually the Easton tuning guide only suggests it for finger shooters, It does not give consistant results with release aids because the arrow flexes differently.
I do pretty much the same as the rest of you, I just group tune at different distances. I do think paper tuning is a good place to start sometimes, especially with a new bow set up. It will tell you if something is way off to start with. Like spine or rest contact. But if it is a bow I am comfortable with and set up before, usually my intitial settings are close enough I don't have to bother. Like if I am just changing a rest or something.
Good luck,
Paul
Actually the Easton tuning guide only suggests it for finger shooters, It does not give consistant results with release aids because the arrow flexes differently.
I do pretty much the same as the rest of you, I just group tune at different distances. I do think paper tuning is a good place to start sometimes, especially with a new bow set up. It will tell you if something is way off to start with. Like spine or rest contact. But if it is a bow I am comfortable with and set up before, usually my intitial settings are close enough I don't have to bother. Like if I am just changing a rest or something.
Good luck,
Paul
12-30-2002, 08:33 PM
#9
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Havertown PA USA
Posts: 232
RE: Tuning process
Boy did I open up a can of worms. Nodose, the reasons I got away from paper tuning is because I was getting such good results from B/S tuning. I use vertical & horizonal tuning for my fine tuning C/S & N/P. Shooting at a 10in. long electrical tape or the edge of a paper target in a horizonal position making adjustments to my nock untill I achieve the straightest line across the tape. I do the same thing for center shot but the tape is in a vertical position. I also make my final center shot adjustments alternating shots between 20 and 40 yds. Sometimes out to 50 or 60 but I'm not as consistant at that range as I'm at 40.
I think spine is the biggest problem most guys have with broadheads. Over the years if my BH's where off it was because of spine. I also found my B/S flew almost the same as my BH. I don't know why that is but if I think I'm tuned and shoot a BH and i'm off most of the time my B/S is hitting with my BH's in relationship to my fletched arrows. So if I make an adjustment for my B/S and then shoot a BH they all hit the same group. Hope I explained that right. Thanks for the inbut Nodose. JERRY
I think spine is the biggest problem most guys have with broadheads. Over the years if my BH's where off it was because of spine. I also found my B/S flew almost the same as my BH. I don't know why that is but if I think I'm tuned and shoot a BH and i'm off most of the time my B/S is hitting with my BH's in relationship to my fletched arrows. So if I make an adjustment for my B/S and then shoot a BH they all hit the same group. Hope I explained that right. Thanks for the inbut Nodose. JERRY