Bowtech Gurus
 

So, lately when I've been shooting I've noticed that I've been feeling a little scrunched up. Before starting work at Sportsman's Warehouse, I had one of the guys who used to work there measure my drawlength; 27.5". Well, because of this scrunched up feeling I've been having, I decided to measure my drawlength myself; 28". I measured it a dozen times, just to make sure. All but two times I came out to 28".

No problem, I brought the 3.5 EFA mods home, swapped them out and set the draw stop at 5.8 as per Bowtech's post setting chart.

Now to the issue I'm having. When I draw, the bow seems to feel... stiffer. Do I have the draw stop tightened down too much? Did I maybe not get it set right at 5.8? Am I just making this up in my head somehow?

Any thoughts?

Edit* 2007 Bowtech Allegiance, 70#.

RE: Bowtech Gurus
 

What do you mean by "stiffer" and about having the draw stop "tightened down too much"? Is your draw at 28" with the draw stop where it's at? From what I gather, the bow is not breaking over all the way and you need to move the draw stop out a little. Try it and see how it feels, you won't break anything.

RE: Bowtech Gurus
 

The draw stop is where it needs to be, it breaks over fine. It almost feels like I'm pulling more weight back, which is what is throwing me off. I've got a scale here at home, but its about as inaccurate as they come, so I haven't bothered testing the draw weight.

In all honesty, I think its in my head. Ever since the tuning issues I had swapping strings, I seem to try and find things wrong when I change something.

RE: Bowtech Gurus
 

"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far they can go."

The only way to know how far you've changed is to measure that which you've altered. Be sure to check all you're measurements especially draw length, brace height and poundage. You'll have to get to a decent scale to find out for sure what's different, if anything. It's the only way to settle those little nagging things in the back of the mind that are going to chew you up; real or not.

RE: Bowtech Gurus
 

True 'nuff.

I can't get my bow into work until Saturday, but I definitely plan on taking it with me. ;)

RE: Bowtech Gurus
 

Did you have EFA's on it before or did you have ESM's? Changing from one to the other would make a difference.

It could also be due to you not being used to the extra 1/2" draw yet.

RE: Bowtech Gurus
 

This is important. When you bring it in, measure exact draw length, brace height, ATA, peep height, center shot, and nock height and write it all down somewhere. I do this in my journal for every bow I have once it has a final tune on it that I am happy with. I often write it on the bows limb sticker as well just so it is handy if I end up in a pinch.

RE: Bowtech Gurus
 

Oh! Nice catch! I can't believe I didn't think of the smooth to fast mod change. That'd definitely do what Dan describes.

RE: Bowtech Gurus
 

Maybe you should turn your poundage down to 60#.[8D]

RE: Bowtech Gurus
 

washingtonhunter,

Anytime you change anything dealing with your draw it will seem different. Because you've moved your anchor point it could be making you feel that you are pulling more weight or even holding more. Your muscles are conditioned to only pull back to that certain spot and then stop. Now, you are pulling a little bit more and you have to get used to it. My old bow was way short on draw length and when I got the proper draw length pulling back to where I should be felt like i was pulling a lot more weight (Even at 60#'s). Give it a week or 2 of shooting and you'll get used to it.

Stick with the 70#'s. .

RE: Bowtech Gurus
 

I was shooting EFA's before.

Thanks for all the advice guys, I'll take the bow in on Saturday and report back.

RE: Bowtech Gurus
 

i think its in your head dan, but i'll tell you something you didn't hear from me. not all modulesshoot equally. for instance a bow may shoot and tune better w/ 28.5" modules than it does w/ 27.5" modules. as a matter of fact i got some custom string lengths from a fellow who's top 5 in the world - pro class of asa - to deal w/ this issue last week. this was not regarding a bowtech, but the conversation was very interesting none the less.

RE: Bowtech Gurus
 

This is so very very true. There is an optimum cam rotation for any bow, and a different cam for each DL really is optimum for performance, but most manufacturers (except Mathews) have pulled away from this now because it is a PITA for a dealer to stock lots of cams instead of just mods. It is a convenience thing..................

RE: Bowtech Gurus
 

i appreciate you getting my back on that rickjames - i wasn't sure how it would go over - still am not really - but thanks.

also, weren't you gonna send me some cable lengths?

RE: Bowtech Gurus
 

This goes with what gibblet is saying.

This is an honest question: Aren't bows usually manufactured with a certain cam length being optimal? Or, are do you think that even between 2 bows of the same manufacturer and model this could also be true?

Even if the manufacturerdoes not post that they do so.It would be difficult to manufacturer and have the same characteristics with all cam modules.

As a species we think about everything way too much.

RE: Bowtech Gurus
 

dave, there are guys out there that shoot for companies that avoid certain modules on certain bows. they may start w/ a longer one than they need for that reason - and then get a string, for instance lets say a 102" string built at 100", and knock an inch off the cable, and get a bow w/ 3/4" extra brace pulling a few more pounds - and the right drawlength for them. they figure thisstuff out - i don't. this kind of thing is why a good # of folks shoot single cams.

RE: Bowtech Gurus
 

That's interesting that they do that. I guess though if the cam gives them the performance they want by doing that it's a good thing.

RE: Bowtech Gurus
 

its weird - the better folks shoot - the more manufacturers specs go right out the window. some of these guys have a lot more time to figure this stuff out than i do - and resources - to really find a bows sweet spot and have it fit them and give them what they need at the same time.

RE: Bowtech Gurus
 

Yeah, have been working on the fita/field bow and haven't touched the slayer for a week or so. Will get them out tonight..........

Yes. Bows are typically manufactured for a certain amount of cam rotation to produce the maximum amount ofefficiency, this amount of cam rotation will usually be specific to a certain draw length. When you stray from that and compensate with modules instead of remapping an entire cam profile proportionally for every draw length that bow is sold in, you will lose efficiency. Will the average shooter ever see this or care? Probably not, but put a super short draw length archer on a cam that is now underrotated, and they aren't getting the maximum amount of energy that a specific cam could make for them if the rotation was specific for their draw length.

A perfect example of this is the mini binary or whatever you call it for Bowtech's Equalizer. This cam is specific for this bow (and the constitution) because that cam is mapped exclusively for a certain amount of cam rotation that is specific to short draw archers, or average draw archers with super long ATA bows........(both short draw and long ata have similar rotation characteristics). That is why the Equalizerat say 27" with the same amount of brace height and limb preload is so much faster than say an Allegiance at 27". It's cam profile has beenoptimized specifically for those shorter DL's. Great move on Bowtech's part, now they have one of the most efficient bows out there specific to short DL archers. Martin addresses this by offering A,B, and C sized nitrous cams so just about any bow can have an optimum cam rotation that is pretty close toperfect for just about 9" of draw length range, (each cam has 3" of adjustment on it). Mathews just doesn't even bother and makes a cam that is exclusive for each draw length because that is the best way to squeeze every ounce of efficiency out of the cam for each draw length, even though it is an inconvenience to consumers and dealers to have a specific cam for DL adjustments.

Heh.........so very true. [8D]

RE: Bowtech Gurus
 

For shorter draw lengths I definitely can see the benefit in adjusting the string and cable length to allow the cams to rotate properly. I've always woundered how the effect is for longer draw lengths like mine? I know people talk about increased speed and such. Is this due to rotating the cams ever further over than a shorter draw length shooter? Or, is the mountain longer and then the valley steeper?

Thanks for the info guys.

RE: Bowtech Gurus
 

they want more brace heightand more pre-load than what is offered - so they just make it - i think.
+ the module thing