Let's define what we are feeling....shall we? :-)
12-17-2002, 09:31 PM
#1
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
Let's define what we are feeling....shall we? :-)
Ok that time is almost here......when the seasons end and the new 2003 models are going to be in our hands very shortly. In fact some already are, such as the new Hoyts.
Play time is upon us!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Hand in hand with "Play Time" comes the inevitable arguments over individual impressions of each particular model as it is shot , and "reviewed" by each person.
A few things to remember.....
<font color=red>1.)</font id=red> Just because we are shooting the exact same model bow DOESN'T mean that they are going to feel the same! "John Q Littlearms" with his 27" draw pulling 60# and a 500gr arrow might have a VERY different impression of a certain model than say "PABowhuntr" will with his 31" draw length pulling 70# shooting a 350gr arrow.
Just because one person says a bow model is "The smoothest thing since Movie Theater Butter" could be misleading.........Remember any bow at 27-28" 60# shooting a 500gr arrow is gonna feel smooth.
<font color=red>2.</font id=red> Along with differnet individual model specs comes Bow Set-up......How a bow is set-up with accessories , stabilizer , string load and choice of arrow will seriously affect a persons perception of a bows performance. Take that same above example in #1 and now give "John Q. Littlearms" a fully set-up bow @27"/60# and a 500gr arrow tricked out with Limbsavers, stabilizer, string Leeches etc etc. and give "PABowhuntr" a bare bow.........THE PERCEPTION GAP WIDENS!!
So remember when we are talking about the "Feel" of these new models as they reach our hands that we must take much more into consideration when evaluating a bow model than just......
"I don't care ,that bow felt like poop when I shot it!", or "This is the smoothest bow on the planet!!"
We must have the ability to break our evaluations down and understand WHY someone might have a differing view of your new favorite "Baby", or that same bow you just happened to shoot at the local shop.
This will help alot of the 'Flame wars' and 'Bow bashing' that is inevitable every year.
And while I'm at it here, there is another VERY important factor involved with all this "Reviewing" and "Evaluation"........and that is DEFINING what we are feeling. I'll take a shot at it in my own opinion of what each term means, and if anyone has a different opinion (or I don't know what the heck I'm talking about) Let's try to come up with a "Shooting Dictionary" of sorts, because I think many times people are trying to describe a certain feeling such as "Handshock", but the person on the other end might have an entirely different idea of what "Handshock" is.
Well here goes:ANd I think these are the 4 "buzz words" most used when evaluating a bow
RECOIL To me this one is easy......we all know what a gun does when it recoils. IT JUMPS. I think this dynamic movement of the bow caused by the limbs and string returning to rest is what should be defined as RECOIL. There is no "Feel" to recoil it is simply HOW MUCH, HOW FAR, HOW QUICKLY and WHAT DIRECTION the bow moved when fired. Recoil will be mostly helped by the addition of mass weight in the system in the form of a good stabilizer with some heft to it, heavier arrows, or even a heavier string load...anything that slows the dynamic forces at the shot.
HANDSHOCK This is the big one I think that people confuse....and I think they confuse it with recoil or even vibration.
To me "Handshock" is the immediate "SNAP" of all the bows energy into the one place you can feel it ...your hand. Its not a vibration buzz, but the splitsecond bang of energy transferred directly into your body thru the grip. Felt Handshock can be altered by different grip materials, no grip at all, how the bow is held, and what accessories the bow is wearing.........This is where all the rubber and noise reducing gizmos I think do their work. Limbsavers, Stabilizer Leeches etc. etc. help to dissipate the tremendous energy that is released when we shoot a bow keeping some of it from ever reaching your hand.
AGain to me......Handshock is an energy transfer into your hand.......Recoil is simply the dynamic movement of the entire bow.
VIBRATION This feeling comes so closely with handshock in timing that I think they can also get confused........IMO "felt vibration" should be seperated into the time frame directly and immediately AFTER the 'Snap' of the shot.......this is the "Buzz" that you will feel from a bare bow and a bare string. And some materials are better than others.
Vibration is best dealt with (besides riser design)by the addition of String silencers and the other add ons that help with noise and handshock. If you are eliminating Handshock you are also reducing vibration.
NOISE Well if you don't know what noise is then hit yourself in the head with a tack hammer. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Seriously tho......noise is something that many people use as a benchmark for purchasing a bow, and its important to realize that every bow is going to sound quite different depending upon its specs (draw lwngth and weight)how its set-up with accessories, and what arrows are being shot.
The novice who goes to a shop and shoots the latest model at 28" (because that's what was on the shelf)with 2 sets of Catwhiskers and the shop owner's 600gr test arrow and falls in love with the noise level, might be very dissapointed when he then orders his 30" model, gets it home and lets rip with one of them "new fangled" light carbon arrows he just bought. "Wow what happened?"
And if you are getting excess noise......you are also getting excess vibration.
I know this isn't a perfect breakdown of these terms and some physics guy will probably rip me a "New one", but I feel its important to at least try to establish some standards that we can refer to and use when discussing bow performance......most of the techie guys already know all this stuff, but the novice archers here who get excited about their new purchases will be much better served if they have a grasp on what they are feeling and why....and maybe more importantly why I might be feeling something entirely different.
And of course first and foremost.....remember everyones bow IS THE BEST!!! Why else would they have bought it? <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>
Play time is upon us!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Hand in hand with "Play Time" comes the inevitable arguments over individual impressions of each particular model as it is shot , and "reviewed" by each person.
A few things to remember.....
<font color=red>1.)</font id=red> Just because we are shooting the exact same model bow DOESN'T mean that they are going to feel the same! "John Q Littlearms" with his 27" draw pulling 60# and a 500gr arrow might have a VERY different impression of a certain model than say "PABowhuntr" will with his 31" draw length pulling 70# shooting a 350gr arrow.
Just because one person says a bow model is "The smoothest thing since Movie Theater Butter" could be misleading.........Remember any bow at 27-28" 60# shooting a 500gr arrow is gonna feel smooth.
<font color=red>2.</font id=red> Along with differnet individual model specs comes Bow Set-up......How a bow is set-up with accessories , stabilizer , string load and choice of arrow will seriously affect a persons perception of a bows performance. Take that same above example in #1 and now give "John Q. Littlearms" a fully set-up bow @27"/60# and a 500gr arrow tricked out with Limbsavers, stabilizer, string Leeches etc etc. and give "PABowhuntr" a bare bow.........THE PERCEPTION GAP WIDENS!!
So remember when we are talking about the "Feel" of these new models as they reach our hands that we must take much more into consideration when evaluating a bow model than just......
"I don't care ,that bow felt like poop when I shot it!", or "This is the smoothest bow on the planet!!"
We must have the ability to break our evaluations down and understand WHY someone might have a differing view of your new favorite "Baby", or that same bow you just happened to shoot at the local shop.
This will help alot of the 'Flame wars' and 'Bow bashing' that is inevitable every year.
And while I'm at it here, there is another VERY important factor involved with all this "Reviewing" and "Evaluation"........and that is DEFINING what we are feeling. I'll take a shot at it in my own opinion of what each term means, and if anyone has a different opinion (or I don't know what the heck I'm talking about) Let's try to come up with a "Shooting Dictionary" of sorts, because I think many times people are trying to describe a certain feeling such as "Handshock", but the person on the other end might have an entirely different idea of what "Handshock" is.
Well here goes:ANd I think these are the 4 "buzz words" most used when evaluating a bow
RECOIL To me this one is easy......we all know what a gun does when it recoils. IT JUMPS. I think this dynamic movement of the bow caused by the limbs and string returning to rest is what should be defined as RECOIL. There is no "Feel" to recoil it is simply HOW MUCH, HOW FAR, HOW QUICKLY and WHAT DIRECTION the bow moved when fired. Recoil will be mostly helped by the addition of mass weight in the system in the form of a good stabilizer with some heft to it, heavier arrows, or even a heavier string load...anything that slows the dynamic forces at the shot.
HANDSHOCK This is the big one I think that people confuse....and I think they confuse it with recoil or even vibration.
To me "Handshock" is the immediate "SNAP" of all the bows energy into the one place you can feel it ...your hand. Its not a vibration buzz, but the splitsecond bang of energy transferred directly into your body thru the grip. Felt Handshock can be altered by different grip materials, no grip at all, how the bow is held, and what accessories the bow is wearing.........This is where all the rubber and noise reducing gizmos I think do their work. Limbsavers, Stabilizer Leeches etc. etc. help to dissipate the tremendous energy that is released when we shoot a bow keeping some of it from ever reaching your hand.
AGain to me......Handshock is an energy transfer into your hand.......Recoil is simply the dynamic movement of the entire bow.
VIBRATION This feeling comes so closely with handshock in timing that I think they can also get confused........IMO "felt vibration" should be seperated into the time frame directly and immediately AFTER the 'Snap' of the shot.......this is the "Buzz" that you will feel from a bare bow and a bare string. And some materials are better than others.
Vibration is best dealt with (besides riser design)by the addition of String silencers and the other add ons that help with noise and handshock. If you are eliminating Handshock you are also reducing vibration.
NOISE Well if you don't know what noise is then hit yourself in the head with a tack hammer. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Seriously tho......noise is something that many people use as a benchmark for purchasing a bow, and its important to realize that every bow is going to sound quite different depending upon its specs (draw lwngth and weight)how its set-up with accessories, and what arrows are being shot.
The novice who goes to a shop and shoots the latest model at 28" (because that's what was on the shelf)with 2 sets of Catwhiskers and the shop owner's 600gr test arrow and falls in love with the noise level, might be very dissapointed when he then orders his 30" model, gets it home and lets rip with one of them "new fangled" light carbon arrows he just bought. "Wow what happened?"
And if you are getting excess noise......you are also getting excess vibration.
I know this isn't a perfect breakdown of these terms and some physics guy will probably rip me a "New one", but I feel its important to at least try to establish some standards that we can refer to and use when discussing bow performance......most of the techie guys already know all this stuff, but the novice archers here who get excited about their new purchases will be much better served if they have a grasp on what they are feeling and why....and maybe more importantly why I might be feeling something entirely different.
And of course first and foremost.....remember everyones bow IS THE BEST!!! Why else would they have bought it? <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>
12-17-2002, 09:44 PM
#2
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Burleson TX USA
Posts: 6,455
RE: Let's define what we are feeling....shall we? :-)
Good post Matt.
So let the fighting begin <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Aussie by birth Texan by choice
So let the fighting begin <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Aussie by birth Texan by choice
12-17-2002, 11:43 PM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Alvo Nebraska USA
Posts: 2,057
RE: Let's define what we are feeling....shall we? :-)
Yes a very good and timely post to consider. Also consider that any person's review of a certain product is simply his or her opinion which, if given honestly, can not be wrong.
12-18-2002, 06:09 AM
#4
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: Let's define what we are feeling....shall we? :-)
Well, I saw my name mentioned so I had to comment...
I see a pattern developing here Matt.....first the guidelines for taking pictures of harvested game....now guidelines for bow reviews...
...what is next? I hope to see "Guidelines for keeping your wife happy during hunting season" soon in one of these forums....<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
On a more serious note, good point regarding the various individual setups and how they affect each person's particular experience with different bows.
Joey "littlearms" might think the BlackKnight 2 is the smoothest, quietest, vibration free bow on the market if he is shooting it at 60 lbs with a 28 inch draw and a 500 grain arrow...but put the same bow, in my hands, with my typical "review" setup.....<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Keep up the excellent posts.
I see a pattern developing here Matt.....first the guidelines for taking pictures of harvested game....now guidelines for bow reviews...
...what is next? I hope to see "Guidelines for keeping your wife happy during hunting season" soon in one of these forums....<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
On a more serious note, good point regarding the various individual setups and how they affect each person's particular experience with different bows.
Joey "littlearms" might think the BlackKnight 2 is the smoothest, quietest, vibration free bow on the market if he is shooting it at 60 lbs with a 28 inch draw and a 500 grain arrow...but put the same bow, in my hands, with my typical "review" setup.....<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Keep up the excellent posts.
12-18-2002, 06:59 AM
#5
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: KY USA
Posts: 779
RE: Let's define what we are feeling....shall we? :-)
Guidelines for Keeping Your Wife Happy During Hunting Season
1. Weekly trip to the spa for her (while you are hunting)
2. Spend Friday night out on the town to make her feel wanted.
3. buy lots of gold & diamonds.
Well there you go PABowhntr!
1. Weekly trip to the spa for her (while you are hunting)
2. Spend Friday night out on the town to make her feel wanted.
3. buy lots of gold & diamonds.
Well there you go PABowhntr!
12-18-2002, 12:37 PM
#8
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,413
RE: Let's define what we are feeling....shall we? :-)
Matt,
I think your definitions are a bit confusing, at least to me.
Handshock and vibration are one in the same from what I can feel. I have no way of decerning between the two. Something that happens within a split second and then is over, can't be divided into different components in my opinion. It will only be confused by those who can't figure out where one stops and the other starts (I'm one of those). It's felt in the hand and that is all I can tell.
If handshock in your definition has no vibration, then maybe you're referring to recoil. Recoil is felt by the bow pushing off your hand. If hand shock does contain vibration, well then that's vibration.
What I'm getting at, is that I cannot divide what I feel into the words you've chosen. I feel recoil and I feel vibration, thats all.
I think your definitions are a bit confusing, at least to me.
Handshock and vibration are one in the same from what I can feel. I have no way of decerning between the two. Something that happens within a split second and then is over, can't be divided into different components in my opinion. It will only be confused by those who can't figure out where one stops and the other starts (I'm one of those). It's felt in the hand and that is all I can tell.
If handshock in your definition has no vibration, then maybe you're referring to recoil. Recoil is felt by the bow pushing off your hand. If hand shock does contain vibration, well then that's vibration.
What I'm getting at, is that I cannot divide what I feel into the words you've chosen. I feel recoil and I feel vibration, thats all.
12-18-2002, 01:42 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
RE: Let's define what we are feeling....shall we? :-)
Interesting post..gotta add my two cents here…
I’m not sure I would make the same distinction as Matt has between vibration and handshock…simply because that any vibration will transfer to the hand eventually unless it is suppressed beforehand (pun intended). You feel the vibration in your hand as well (it’s the only point of contact the archer has with bow).
However I do understand what he means…I believe that there needs to be a better term for what he described (though I have no suggestion) .I have owned several bows that did not have any felt vibration, did not have much bow movement (recoil) yet I could feel a “thunp” or “pulse” in my hand. However it did not have the typical “slam a metal pipe on the concrete floor” feel (which produces vibration and ultimately handshock)… Longbows are notorious for hand shock and that “thump” or “pulse”. Better designed longbows will usually take care of the felt shock, but few still eliminate that “thump” (yet the bow does not move significantly.. no recoil).
I believe what we are feeling here is simply the momentum of the limbs returning to brace and/or the momentum of the cam/cams doing the same. While the vibration through the riser may be eliminated, and the bow will move little (no recoil), the “thump” is there. My Martin Rage XRG w/ Zcams was the first bow where I really experienced this so noticeably. It did not move off the spot (no recoil), and I felt no shock (even with the “self” grip), yet I could feel those XRG’s bottom out… Lately the Patriot and the PSE Enforcer gave me the same sensation, though not to the same degree as the Rage (my all time fave bow).
In addition I think many archers tend to rely too much on the initial “feel” feedback of the bow as it is taken off the shelf and shot once or twice. I’ve found with the numbers of bows I have bought in the past that felt wonderful off the shelf and used that as my main judging criteria either A: did not feel as good when completely set-up( the balance was affected, my particular combination of accessories might make for a “bad match” and amplify noise or vibration compared to other designs), or B (and more commonly) that it simply did not shoot accurately or I found it “unforgiving” to my particular shooting form. The converse is also true…Some I have owned made less than a favorable impression out of the box, but once set-up improved by leaps and bounds or simply shot with such ease and/or precision that I was able to ignore the “feel “ characteristics. Hence other than the grip ergonomics, and the feel of the valley at full draw, I generally ignore potential “false indicators” such as shock, recoil, and vibration, and even a rough draw cycle to a certain extent,unless any or all of these factors are overwhelmingly present. With the accessories we have today like Limbsavers, the NV System, String leeches, and some of the better stabilizers on the market, I know I can almost always tame a fairly unruly off the shelf design into a quiet, comfortable shooting machine.
All the time I have for now
I’m not sure I would make the same distinction as Matt has between vibration and handshock…simply because that any vibration will transfer to the hand eventually unless it is suppressed beforehand (pun intended). You feel the vibration in your hand as well (it’s the only point of contact the archer has with bow).
However I do understand what he means…I believe that there needs to be a better term for what he described (though I have no suggestion) .I have owned several bows that did not have any felt vibration, did not have much bow movement (recoil) yet I could feel a “thunp” or “pulse” in my hand. However it did not have the typical “slam a metal pipe on the concrete floor” feel (which produces vibration and ultimately handshock)… Longbows are notorious for hand shock and that “thump” or “pulse”. Better designed longbows will usually take care of the felt shock, but few still eliminate that “thump” (yet the bow does not move significantly.. no recoil).
I believe what we are feeling here is simply the momentum of the limbs returning to brace and/or the momentum of the cam/cams doing the same. While the vibration through the riser may be eliminated, and the bow will move little (no recoil), the “thump” is there. My Martin Rage XRG w/ Zcams was the first bow where I really experienced this so noticeably. It did not move off the spot (no recoil), and I felt no shock (even with the “self” grip), yet I could feel those XRG’s bottom out… Lately the Patriot and the PSE Enforcer gave me the same sensation, though not to the same degree as the Rage (my all time fave bow).
In addition I think many archers tend to rely too much on the initial “feel” feedback of the bow as it is taken off the shelf and shot once or twice. I’ve found with the numbers of bows I have bought in the past that felt wonderful off the shelf and used that as my main judging criteria either A: did not feel as good when completely set-up( the balance was affected, my particular combination of accessories might make for a “bad match” and amplify noise or vibration compared to other designs), or B (and more commonly) that it simply did not shoot accurately or I found it “unforgiving” to my particular shooting form. The converse is also true…Some I have owned made less than a favorable impression out of the box, but once set-up improved by leaps and bounds or simply shot with such ease and/or precision that I was able to ignore the “feel “ characteristics. Hence other than the grip ergonomics, and the feel of the valley at full draw, I generally ignore potential “false indicators” such as shock, recoil, and vibration, and even a rough draw cycle to a certain extent,unless any or all of these factors are overwhelmingly present. With the accessories we have today like Limbsavers, the NV System, String leeches, and some of the better stabilizers on the market, I know I can almost always tame a fairly unruly off the shelf design into a quiet, comfortable shooting machine.
All the time I have for now
12-18-2002, 10:41 PM
#10
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Sheboygan WI USA
Posts: 255
RE: Let's define what we are feeling....shall we? :-)
I would define recoil a little differently.
Recoil is NOT the jump a bow makes when shot. The jump is an after effect caused by the grip of the bow being below the plane of recoil.Both in guns and bows.
RECOIL is the felt reaction of the shot caused not by the limbs and string (at least not ONLY by these) but by the arrow being accelerated forward. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. The more energy you put into the arrow, the more recoil you will get. Also, recoil is affected by the mass of the bow. A heavy bow will reduced felt recoil.
again, the jump happens simply because our hands are below the arrow and it's palne of motion. If we held the bow above the arrow, the bow would want to jump down, not up.
We can reduce jump (lift or "flip"
by adding weight in front of the bow. the farther out, and more weight, the less lift we will see/feel.
Reducing felt recoil is as simple as adding weight to the bow. Front, center no matter.
Another charictoristic of a bow, is what the bow does after the arrow is gone. It WAS pushing into your hand all the way until the arrow left the string, now it is neutral. Your arm having some elasticity while holding the bow pushes the bow away from you after the arrow is gone (thank goodness for wrist/finger/thumb slings). Now that there is no force acting above your hand, the balance of the bow will change. DURING the shot, you want the bow to remain level...but after the arrow is gone, we loose that balance, and the bow wants to tip forward. That is what I concider "shock" how bad the bow wants to get away from you after the shot.
What does any/all of this have to do with the topic at hand? Basically, each archer will want/need to adjust the balance of the bow to his/her arrow weight, and stored energy of the bow, as well as their grip (high grip, less weight added out front etc).
So when I read "Bow "A" has a lot of recoil or shock" to ME this means he doesn't have it balanced for HIM/HER. ANY bow I buy will get outfitted with a stabilizer, and balanced to work best for me.
The other attributes (Vibration, and Noise) will be a lot harder to get rid of all else being equal.
SMOOTHNESS? I look at that as the draw cycle. round wheel bows are normally QUITE smooth. MOST 1 cam bows are NOT. To ME it doesn't matter unless I'm shooting more than 60 arrows or so. It does NOT change accuracy, only the way the bow is drawn.
MOST faster bows in MY definition are NOT smooth. quick to peak power, rapid drop into a very small valley. ACCURATE? YES. SMOOTH? NO.
This is why I shoot the damn bow myself...how it FEELS to ME is more important than shock/recoil or smoothness.
That said, of COURSE <u>MY</u> bow is best. Why because <u>I</u> MADE it that way! No lift on the shot (stabilizer balance/length) no vibration (doinker/limb savers/leeches) and no hand shock (enough weight in the stab to absorb the energy).
No, you won't find my bow on the shelf of your archery dealer...you'll find one kind of like it...it will say Alpine Stealth Force. but THAT bow simply doesn't shoot like MINE. WAY to much shock/recoil/vibration etc <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Recoil is NOT the jump a bow makes when shot. The jump is an after effect caused by the grip of the bow being below the plane of recoil.Both in guns and bows.
RECOIL is the felt reaction of the shot caused not by the limbs and string (at least not ONLY by these) but by the arrow being accelerated forward. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. The more energy you put into the arrow, the more recoil you will get. Also, recoil is affected by the mass of the bow. A heavy bow will reduced felt recoil.
again, the jump happens simply because our hands are below the arrow and it's palne of motion. If we held the bow above the arrow, the bow would want to jump down, not up.
We can reduce jump (lift or "flip"
by adding weight in front of the bow. the farther out, and more weight, the less lift we will see/feel.Reducing felt recoil is as simple as adding weight to the bow. Front, center no matter.
Another charictoristic of a bow, is what the bow does after the arrow is gone. It WAS pushing into your hand all the way until the arrow left the string, now it is neutral. Your arm having some elasticity while holding the bow pushes the bow away from you after the arrow is gone (thank goodness for wrist/finger/thumb slings). Now that there is no force acting above your hand, the balance of the bow will change. DURING the shot, you want the bow to remain level...but after the arrow is gone, we loose that balance, and the bow wants to tip forward. That is what I concider "shock" how bad the bow wants to get away from you after the shot.
What does any/all of this have to do with the topic at hand? Basically, each archer will want/need to adjust the balance of the bow to his/her arrow weight, and stored energy of the bow, as well as their grip (high grip, less weight added out front etc).
So when I read "Bow "A" has a lot of recoil or shock" to ME this means he doesn't have it balanced for HIM/HER. ANY bow I buy will get outfitted with a stabilizer, and balanced to work best for me.
The other attributes (Vibration, and Noise) will be a lot harder to get rid of all else being equal.
SMOOTHNESS? I look at that as the draw cycle. round wheel bows are normally QUITE smooth. MOST 1 cam bows are NOT. To ME it doesn't matter unless I'm shooting more than 60 arrows or so. It does NOT change accuracy, only the way the bow is drawn.
MOST faster bows in MY definition are NOT smooth. quick to peak power, rapid drop into a very small valley. ACCURATE? YES. SMOOTH? NO.
This is why I shoot the damn bow myself...how it FEELS to ME is more important than shock/recoil or smoothness.
That said, of COURSE <u>MY</u> bow is best. Why because <u>I</u> MADE it that way! No lift on the shot (stabilizer balance/length) no vibration (doinker/limb savers/leeches) and no hand shock (enough weight in the stab to absorb the energy).
No, you won't find my bow on the shelf of your archery dealer...you'll find one kind of like it...it will say Alpine Stealth Force. but THAT bow simply doesn't shoot like MINE. WAY to much shock/recoil/vibration etc <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>