Broadhead flight problems.
 

I was out shooting today, and decided to test the broadheads a little bit (I know I should have done this earlier as our season starts at the end of september), and they are flying extremely erratic. My field points are flying great (75 grain), but when I shoot with wasp 3-blade 100gr's, my arrow hits about 4inches low and 4-5 inches to the left and comes out fishtailing to the left (it's very noticeable when watching in my follow through). I know this is most likely a tuning issue, but where do I begin? My form is the same for the field points as it is for the broadheads, my grip change isn't doing anything, I've even tried switching the broadheads onto other arrows to make sure it wasn't an arrow issue. Well anyways here's what I'm shooting:

Jennings Buckmaster 2000 68# 30"
Easton XX75 2117 w/Wasp 100gr 3-blade
Cheapo two-prong rest
Standard Tube peep
Savage Pendulum
Cobra Release

Any help or insight would be helpful

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

First get some 100 grain field tips and start over. Sight em in and then come back & let us know what's happening. It's tough learning all the little things in archery, but that's where I would start on this problem.

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

either that or get some 75gr broad heads. always shoot wiht the same weight broadhead you will be using. two differnet weights willnot perform the same way.

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

I had those problems with mine, I went with a heavier arrow and
resighted. For me that solved the problem and I practice with
the broadheads prior to hunting each year, as the broadheads
appear to fly different.

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

You are seriously underspined , nothing will help untill you switch to a much stiffer arrow , then begin to tune .

Another mistake , useing feild tips that are slightly heavyer than broadheads may be to some advantage , but the other way around ," broadheads heavery than feild tips " , is just asking for problems

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

I always use the same weight BHs as FPs.
Never occurred to me to try anything else.

Swap some points (I'd change the FP since they're cheaper), and try again. If the spine is indeed weak, you'll need to stay with the lighter points all the way around, so check that first.

Once you have the same point weights, follow the Easton tuning guide for bareshaft tuning. Then, once you've got that dialed in, check that all of your BHs spin true on their shafts, tune for broadheads, and you're done.

There is still time to get it all adjusted. Just start now since you may end up getting a curve ball thrown at you, like needing to start over with new arrows, having the local shop be out of stock on the points you need, or finding out that there is a big backlog for fletching yourshafts if you don't do them yourself.

I try to get my new equipment as Chrismas gifts so that I can start making changes right after deer season. That way I'm ready for 3-D before bowfishing starts in the Spring. It's also easier and less frustrating to make your adjustments on the range when the weather isn't 95 degreesand humid.

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

Ok, so I went out and shot some 100gr FP, and although my shots weren't as wild as with the broadheads, they certainly weren't grouping well. Now, question is...since it seems (from the responses here) that I have to weak of a spine for the broadhead, would it be better to get some 75gr broadheads, or re-site the bow with the 100gr FP, and see how the 100gr broadheads do after that? Thanks again for everyone's responses.

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

get the 75 gr heads. If you just adjust your sight for the 100's you'll still be underspined. Better yet get new arrows if you can afford it.

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

Well I'm planning on getting all new equipment (bow included) come this winter after the season is over, so I'm not planning on purchasing all new stuff for this one. Please excuse the technical ignorance on my part, but if I have a weak spine, and everyone recommends new arrows, why would arrows like this be made? They obviously have a niche they fit into, so wouldn't an arrow like this with a 75gr be sufficient?

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

so wouldn't an arrow like this with a 75gr be sufficient?

Yes, I was under the impression you wanted to keep the 100 gr broadheads you had, but it is cheaper to get new heads rather than arrows. You can also take a few pounds off the bow (should help) than you wouldn't need anything new.JMO

Don't buy everything new. Keep That Savage Pendulum:)

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

Funny you should say that, as I'm not too sure I want to keep a pendulum site. It does work great in the stand (although I've only taken one buck with it on), but I like to shoot a lot on the ground, and the one pin setup is kind of a pain. What sight are you using?

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

I have the savage QC Ranger pendulum.

In the treestand you set the yardage at 20 yds and it works as a pendulum. On the ground you just set it at the yardage your shooting at from 20 - 70 yds in 1 yard increments. It raises and lowers the pin, it works on the arrows speed. You can buy the Quick Click and use your site with it.

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

Those arrows would have to be around 25-26 inches to spine right most likely. Changing tip weights will not do much for you, they are just too weak to begin with.

2413's or 2315's at 29 inches would work better for you. And they would actually be a bit lighter.

Paul

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

Please let me ask a few questions.

Are the 2117s 30" long?
Are they fletched with plastic vanes?
Are the plastic vanes fletched with an offset or helical, or are they pretty straight?
How old are the arrows, and how much have they been shot?

I agree that the 2117 is underspined for a #68 bow, even a smooth draw bow like the Buckmaster. One free way to see if that is the problem is to drop your draw weight back to #60, and see if they shoot any better. They are also too heavy an arrow to shoot 75 gr. broadheads, especially if you are using plastic vanes. FOC would be off the scale light. That bow is much like the Jennings Speedstar that I had about 10 years ago. It has a big, fat, torquey grip on it. Try taking the grip off, and shoot off the bare riser to see if that helps. I can tell you that at #70 with the wood grip on, my Speedstar put broadheads 3" low and left of field pts. At #60, with the grip removed, it stacked field pts, fletched broadheads, and bare shaft arrows into a 1" spot at 20 yards. If this bow was tuned well, and shooting well in the past, what changes were made to it? Those changes made are likely to be at least part of the problem. Then, you have the additional potential problems of aluminum arrows bending, broadheads not being aligned with the arrow, not enough fletching/offset to control the broadhead, etc.

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

The arrows are ~29.5" from tip (not including broadhead) to the nock insert. The Vanes are 4" plastic fletched straight. These arrows are actually three years old but have not been shot much at all. I leave some arrows out of the shooting bunch just for the broadheads. So I guess I should go with a stiffer spine then, or try knocking the weight down first?

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

Matt,

I will only add, since you posted it now, that you should never shoot stright fletch with broadheads, even with properly spined arrows. You should shoot helical or straight-offset to spin the arrows.

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

A 2117 30inches long shot at 60 lbs is still seriously underspined , you would have to cut them to 28 inches to be in the ballpark , You need stiffer arrows period . I boubt your bow goes down to 55 lbs safely , that would be about the only other option .

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

I think that's a matter of opinion...

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

Why not just buy some carbon arrows that are properly spined, anduse the 100gr BHs you have. Then, you'll have arrows when you buy your new setup in the winter. Your draw length isn't going to change, and you'll have the right arrows for this season.

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

Well it doesn't matter what type of arrows you get, but yes I would suggest getting different arrows that closer match the spine of your set up.

If you want to stick with aluminums that is fine, which is I why I suggested the correct arrows for aluminum arrows. But simular spined carbon arrows will work as well.

Keep in mind when you change arrows you will have to re tune your bow because of differences in diameter and what not.

Paul

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

I agree that you need new, stiffer spined arrows but they don't necessarily need to be carbon. Invest in them now and use them with your new set-up. With an arrow of the size you need I would suggest at least a 100 grain head and personally I'd go to a 125 to get the FOC up but that's JMHO. For your 2 prong rest I'd suggest going to a straight offset fletch to gain some broadhead stability over your current straight fletch but you won't be able to go to a full helical due to rest clearance issues , unless you go to feathers.

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

Thanks for all of the responses, it's been a big help. I guess I'll just suck it up and get the arrows now. I'm very new to the technical aspects, I usually left it to our local pro shop (who incidentally set me up with the 2117's and 100gr BH's:eek:). I've heard lots of good things about ACCs kind of giving the best of both worlds, but I would like to shoot carbon on my next setup, so some recommendations for arrow and spine setups would be great.

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

Carbon Express 3D select 300's matched straightness & weight and they are tough arrows.

GGBH

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

Acc's are excellent arrows, just a bit pricy, but so will good carbons.

As far as spine goes you need something between a .350 and .330 spine.

Any beman or easton 340 series arrow

gold tip 75/95's

PSE 400's

Carbon Express 400's (I would use a 125 grn tip they come up a tadd stiff with a 100)

Or ACC 3-60's

This is with a 30 inch arrow.

If you had a specific brand or model in mind let me know and I will see what I can find on specs for it.

Paul

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

Paul is right about 400 CE instead of 300's my buddy shoots 300's out of 68lbs but they are only 27 in long---with 145 grn B/heads Thanks Paul

GGBH

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

This thread is great. Archers actually helping archers. A lot better than arguing over which bow is better.

One option I would like to add is the Carbon Express Terminator Select, which are a composite of carbon and fiberglass. They are somewhat heavier than all carbon arrows, are very tough, and seem to be very consistent arrows for the very reasonable price. You would want the 60/75 spine size. Oh yes, you definitely want some offset to the fletching.

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

Paul - Basically I'm looking for the most affordable solution at the time (I'm going back for my final year of college, so funds for extra things are at a minimum).

Thanks for all of the posts so far, you guys have been very helpful, it's great. Btw, is there anything (books, internet articles, etc), where I can read up on these finer points of archery (matching broadheads to arrows, to draw length, spine selection, etc?).

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

Good point Joe although I do get a kick out of the wars sometimes.:D

One thing about off sets. Some times they won't work. Contacts the problem. Just like anything takes some experimenting to see what's best. Building your own arrows is the way to go.

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

Get game getters then. Fairly cheap with great tolerances. Also the larger diameter shaft will help with contact problems with your prong rest.

When comparing cheap carbons and cheap aluminums the aluminum arrow is almost always the better way to go as far as quality control and consistancy from arrow to arrow. There are some very nice carbons on the market, but they are not cheap by any means. The good thing is the arrow companies know this and they get better every year.

Paul

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

Well I went ahead and ordered some 2413's with a straight offset fletch. I will probably still get some carbons when I get my new bow and try some blazers because I will be putting a new rest on, but for now these will do. Thanks again for all of the help, and I will keep you posted with the results.

RE: Broadhead flight problems.
 

Good hunting Matt!