I'm bringing this up only due to speed addicts. I've often said that there is no need for more speed once you peak at the upper end of 200 fps into lower end 300's...alot of people strive for that magic 300 fps and back in 96 when I bought my first competition bow I thought it was important as well. After learning that there is no difference in pin gap, windage adjustments on moveable sights etc and fixed pin sights....I've since come to the conclusion that it's so not necessary. Matt/PA even pointed out changes in his configuration at different speeds but bringing in human influence and not out of a shooting machine I've again found there is no difference between 285 and 305 fps on my Toxonic adjustable....

When I shot my Tox on my Vortec backed down to 68 lbs shooting 285 fps I zero'd my 20 yards and set my pin at 10 on the scale. At 30 yards my setting would be 13 and at 40 yards it would be 16 making only 3 marks per 10 yards....at 50 yards I'd have to move it 4 marks to 20 on the scale.....when shooting 3D tourneys I know my exact distances on my scale 20, 30, 40, and 50 yards would be 10, 13, 16 and 20 respectable on the scale.

Now I have my Allegiance shooting 305 fps and while I'm waiting on my Viper Predator Pro-MT sight I put my Tox on my Bowtech. In the last weeks I've owned the bow I sighted it in and zero'd my 20 yards and set my sight on 10 of the scale. I zero'd it in for 30 yards and it would be 13 on the scale, 40 yards would be 16 on the scale and 50 yards, yup 20 on the scale.

Believe me after shooting competition for so long and bowhunting more than 23 years, I've been know to shoot....Just yesterday I busted another ACC aiming for it at 40 yards..that gets expensive.

SO at 285 fps up to 305 fps my scale never changes in gap....so a bow shooting these speeds will have the same gap on a fixed pin setup....I know this as well from my bows in the past....when I move a sight from one bow to another all I need to do is zero the 20 yard pin and the 30, 40, and 50 yard pins gaps never change regardless of speed over 275 up to 300's.....again, human influences and not a shooting machine....

SO....if you agree or disagree these findings don't lie out of my bows and I'll never worry about shooting as fast as possible...this is one reason I slightly back down my bows to shoot a comfortable poundage and slow the bow down.....if your not shooting 300, don't worry about it and be happy with your setup....

Okay, let the contridictions begin.

PS, this is the same findings with the guys I shot competition with. When the 4 of us showed up to a shoot, one of the 4 of us would end up winning with the other 3 following close behind regardless of which one of us won.

One guy shot a Tox like mine and the other two shot Sure Locs....regardless of speed the difference between 20, 30 and 40 on the scale would be 3 lines on the scale and 4 lines to 50....

I agree compeletely, and great post by the way! This is why I switched to a single pin slider. The pin gap is just so close, all the pins blur together. One question I do have, since I am just really getting into 3D tourneys.......Even though the pin gap is the same, the arrow drop isn't, correct? What I mean is this. Let's say a given target is 32 yards out. I pick 34 and let fly. Now, by golly, that's a pretty good guestimate, but I am going to be high.

Given that scenario, here's the question. The bow shooting 285 will be an inch high lets say.....how much higher would the bow shooting 305 be? Now, keep in mind that other than the speeds, these numbers have been pulled out of the air. Made up.

An inch isn't gonna matter squat in a tree stand on a deer, but it could mean a 12 or a 10 in competition. This is why I am a speed freak, I am simply not good enough to be EXACT on my yardage, not yet anyway.

I agree comepletely. When I was shooting alot of 3-D I found that shooting right at 280 fps was the optimum speed for me. I found that I would shoot groups that weren't as tight when I got up around 300. I know this was probably in my form.
Alot of newbies don't understand this andgo all out for speed to compensate for lack of distance judging ability. They would be much better off slowing it down and practicing judging distance.

I agree my bow only shoots 170.8, its only 48 pounds and its an 80's bow but if it kills a deer humanely I am alright with my equipment. My uncle says if you dont have a fast bow the deer will jump the arrow, but I disagree if you have a quiet bow that has good kinetic energy then it will be just as good as a bow shooting 300 fps.

While I do see your point to an extent, I do however disagree.....

Lets say we have three setups. One shoots 285, 305 and 325.

The 285 FPS setup will have 13.32 inches of drop from 20 - 40 yards.

The 305 FPS setup will have 11.05 inches of drop from 20 - 40 yards.

The 325 FPS setup will have 9.18 inches of drop from 20 -40 yards.

Speed does make a difference. Bascially youeliminate one inch of arch for every 10 FPS increase in arrow speed in your trajectory from 20 - 40 yards.

Two inches of flattened trajectory for 20 FPS is nothing to sneeze at IMO.

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buckeye, that was good info. I've often wondered the ballistics on that. Thank you. How much different are those numbers depending on arrow weight?

BBH, I'm not totally doubting those numbers however I'm asking if this is out of a shooting machine or mathmatical assumptions?

My question then becomes why can I take nocks off my arrows and/or hit my mark with my above numbers at either 285 or 305 fps.....with your numbers I'll be two inches low between the two numbers and that has never been the case with me or any of my friends. I wouldn't be able to dial in my sight and still be dead on however it is equal. And pin gap on fixed pinned sights don't change between the two speeds and still be dead on....to group dead on...

I have never seen a difference in trajectory (lets say in the 275-305 range) out to 30 yards, but at 40 yards I did see a drop when I would go from my 356 grain pro 22's, to my 416 grain hunting arrows last season with the Patriot. It was around 1-2", not much...................but noticable to me and also able to throw me out of a 10 ring on a poorly judged 35 yard 3D. Shooting at a 10 ring on a dreaded bedded McKenzie buck, at 312fps like my current allegiance, I can shoot that target for 35 yards when it is really at 30 yards, and still cut that 10 every time. At 275 fps it falls out of the top of the 10. I have done this a couple times on different targets just to learn what you can get away with, and shooting at 312 is noticable. This is what I think I will be competing in HC with this year except for ASA.

It is very interesting that you bring this up. I was working out my own delema a while back on this same topic. I am shooting 278 with my 06 pro-elite. I was wondering if my protec shooting 291 would be better for the MBO at the upcoming triple crown. I ran the numbers on pinwheel with the same arrows at 352.4 grains. I plugged the information into the database and saw how I would shoot a 50 yard target if I judged it for 45 yards. I found that the calculations were within 3/4's of an inch from each other. Probably closer than I can shoot that at 50, or most people in fact. However, if I had the perfect release on both shots, that 3/4 of an inch could most definately cost me some much needed points. As buckeye points out, there is a greater drop at slower speeds over the spectrum of 20-40 yards. At the same time your sight marks could be close to the same because to misjudge by 20 yards would not be likely even with the worst yardage judgers. The change would be fractional by 2-3 yard judging errors between the two speeds. Probably again a smaller increment than most would notice. With this in mind I opted to shoot the 291 fps bow over the 278 because I will be shooting up to and possibly over the 50 yard mark and I want to have the confidence that I have that 3/4 inch extra built into my bow. If a guy can control the bow and shoot accurate at faster speeds, he will most definately give himself an advantage. I can say though that my x-count goes from 11-12( over 300 fps)over forty targets to an average of 20 or so when I drop down around the 290 mark. That gives me the balance of speed an accuracy that I need.

Look closely at the numbers that were given by buckeye. 4 inches sounds like alot. Break down that 4 inches and that calculates to .2 inches per yard. Take a 3 yard misjudge in yardage and you are now talking about .6 inches difference between the speeds. I would say that a real good group at 40 yards would be about 2 inches. Move the 2inch goup down .6 inches from the other and most of the arrows would overlap. So your 40 yard pin would be about the same for the 2 speeds.

I beleive that I know where you are going with the original post. You won't notice huge differences between the speeds, but when you reach a high level of competition. That .6 inches could mean the difference between taking home the $ or footing someone else bill for a weekend of fun. A person just needs to make sure that accuracy is not sacrificed for speed.

I have found out though that spending time practicing my yardage judging has been more beneficial than trying to eek out an extra 2 or 3 fps. Confidence in your shot will score much higher than a fast bow!!!!!!!!!

Arrow weight makes no difference it is all about speed and the drag on your arrow. All of these numbers were ran thru On Target2 out of a BowTech Allegiance shooting Gold Tip 22 Series Ultralight Pros with 4 inch Low profile Bohning X vanes.


As I stated to Mobo the numbers were ran thru On Target2. I can not answer your question...... It kind of defys physics


I took my Sure Loc / Cobra Sidewinderoff my Allie when I bought the Spot Hogg and put it on my Tribute.

Ihave smooth mods in my Tribute currently for my hunting setup. At 5gpp (for testing and comparing)with a loaded string it shoots 305FPS. The Allie that the sight came off of at 5gpp with a loaded string (minus string silencers) shoots 319 FPS.

After I got the 20 yard pin sighted in (using the micro gang adjustments) my 27 yard pin I didn't move but a very slight amount. Althoughmy 32 and 37had to beadjusted as they were both coming in hot.

I think this is the best possible answer for your experiences???


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